Draft of Drafts

[argentine soccer fan]

I think in some ways that Team A were the only team who could have picked Santos as Stanley Matthews dominated him when they played in 1956. Matthews was 41 at the time.


Is that right? Was that a Brazil-England or a club matchup? And what was the score?

That would be a great match tape to get a hold of if available.

[comme]

I respecfully disagree. You criticize our team because we are playing players in unfamilar positions. Yet you still would prefer Beckham to play as a DM. Beckham would be good in Figo's role but I still think Beckham is worse in the DM position than Helguera is. I would even rather have Cambiasso in that position or Geremi. When you have 3 attackers with not much defensive ability in front of you there needs to be guys who can run and tackle for 90 mins. David Beckham is not that type of player. If I were Real this is what I would do this year:

1. They have just bought Samuel which is a good start. But I would buy another good center back. He doesn't have to be a superstar but he has to be better than Pavon.

2. I would sell Beckham and Ronaldo. For all thier talents I think they could be better without them. In thier place I bring back Morientes and I sign Emerson.

---------------------Casillas
----------Samuel---------------Pavon/???
Salgado------------------------------------R. Carlos
------------Helguera----------Emerson
----Figo-------------------------------Zidane
------------------------------Raul
-----------------Morientes

IMO, that lineup is much better than one with both Beckham and Ronaldo in it. And as a Milan fan it would scare me if Milan were to face it.


Yes, Gullit is nowhere near the striker Raul is but that is not the exact role he will be playing. Our 3 AM are more interchangable. They can all switch positions on the fly and a they all have proven that they can score many goals at the highest level. And even though you might think Gullit is better in a different position the facts are that Gullit has been extremely succesfull in his career in the withdrawn forward position. Just look at Holland '88 and Milan where he played just behind Van Basten on many occasions. I think it is hard to put Gullit anywhere on the pitch w/o saying "He can play there but wouldn't he be better here" Gullit's versatility gives us so many options. That was my main reason for picking him.

Beckham is a guy who can run all day, I haven't seen this season's stats but he normally covers more ground than anyone else in the league. He is also very good at hustling players. His form was excellent up to Christmas when the whole team fell apart. If you put Emerson next to him and Samuel at the back with Helguera I would favour that team.

You also advocate getting rid of Ronaldo, he is one of the main reasons that Real are even in the CL next season. He has scored plenty of goals and without him Real look impotent. Raul if anyone is the man who should be shipped out, his form has been piss poor for 2 years now.

As for Gullit, I know how versatile he is, but personally i would pick a specialist for each position as it just prevents confusion. Gullit and Cruyff ae both known for their attitudes and how easily will they play togethet?

[comme]

Is that right? Was that a Brazil-England or a club matchup? And what was the score?

That would be a great match tape to get a hold of if available.


It was England-Brazil at Wembley in 1956. The score was 4-2 to England.

[kopiteinkc]

It was England-Brazil at Wembley in 1956. The score was 4-2 to England.

Unfortunately the three Man Utd players in the England starting 11 against Brazil (the first ever match between the two nations) all died as a result of the Munich Air Disaster in February, 1958.

These three players would have all featured in the England 1958 World Cup team had not they not died as a result of the crash.

I can wait and mention the players names until after the draft is over as some players may be considering drafting one of these players.

England also missed two penalties in that match IIRC.

[Excape Goat]

Unfortunately the three Man Utd players in the England starting 11 against Brazil (the first ever match between the two nations) all died as a result of the Munich Air Disaster in February, 1958.

These three players would have all featured in the England 1958 World Cup team had not they not died as a result of the crash.

I.

I do not know much about the Brazil-England match, but I did lmention a player who died in Munich Air Disaster as one my draft choice. He was more of a second choice.

[minorthreat]

I think you can see Schmeichel's worth by looking at what's happened to Man U's defense since he left - they've been through, what, 10 starting keepers in 4 years?I was just thinking about that the other day. It'd be an interesting exercise to see who's gone through more keepers - Man Utd post-Schmeichel or Barcelona post-Zubizarreta. It has to be close. Let's see:

United:
Roy Carroll
Raimond van der Gouw
Ricardo Lopez
Fabien Barthez
Mark Bosnich
Massimo Taibi
Tim Howard
Andy Goram
Paul Rachubka

Barcelona:
Vitor Baia
Carles Busquets
Julien Lopetegui
Ruud Hesp
Richard Dutruel
Francesc Arnau
Jose Manuel Reina
Roberto Bonano
Victor Valdes
Recber Rustu

[kopiteinkc]

I do not know much about the Brazil-England match, but I did lmention a player who died in Munich Air Disaster as one my draft choice. He was more of a second choice.

I had included said player in a PM to ClanBlue a few weeks ago (I thought he was involved in a draft team, but guess not).

It would have been a great pick IMO, but picks on potential are hard to quantify or justify. Great career cut short .. tragic.

[imasyko]

I would like to thank all who have contributed to this thread - what a fascinating exercise, particularly to someone like me, who is basically ignorant of football history. I am going to go back and re-read the whole damn thing. I have learned not only about the great players, and how they are judged, but the discussions about formations, the evolution of the game, past world cups...all of it has been very enlightening.

Forgive a question from a 'newbie', but some of the discussions regarding formations, player temperments, etc. are interesting, but it strikes me that the premise has not been fully defined. Let me explain. A team of superstars can, and have (as I have read, the Brazil 70 team with 5 '#10's, for example) come together for a short time when there is a clear goal, subjugating individual desires for the better team good. I have to believe that the Gullitt, Cruyff, Zico team could do just that - but may have problems over the full length of a league season, when goals,etc., bring individual players more glory (and money). Which brings me back to the original premise for this exercise = are these teams designed for a short tourney or a full season? It makes a difference how a team would be selected, does it not?

AFter reading this thread, I watched the France/Brazil exhibition last night with a whole new perspective. And I would add my (light) weight to those arguing that Zidanne belongs with the 'all timers'. And I will watch the burgeoning career of Ronaldinho closely in the years to come.

Thanks to all.

[tpmazembe]

Thanks to all.
Thank you imasyko for taking the time to follow.

You have a good point....team composition could indeed vary somewhat given the competition that these teams are geared up for. Indeed lining-up with 5 No.10's might prove difficult over complete 40 or so league schedule, but given the footballing IQ of those 10's in particular, they probably would have adapted.

Although loosely defined, the intent was a round-robin (a 5 team mini-league if you will) amongst Teams A-E. So each team plays 8 games for maximum 24 points.

[tpmazembe]

It was England-Brazil at Wembley in 1956. The score was 4-2 to England.England:R.Matthews, Hall, R.Byrne,Clayton, Billy Wright, Edwards, Stanley Matthews, Atyeo, Taylor, Haynes, Grainger

Brasil: Gilmar, DjSantos,Pavao, N.Santos, Zozimo, Dequinha,Paulinho, Alvaro,Gino, Didi, Canhoteiro

Goals: Taylor, Grainger, Paulinho, Didi, Taylor, Grainger


Useless factoid for anyone interested :)

[imasyko]

You have a good point....team composition could indeed vary somewhat given the competition that these teams are geared up for. Indeed lining-up with 5 No.10's might prove difficult over complete 40 or so league schedule, but given the footballing IQ of those 10's in particular, they probably would have adapted.

But given Cruyff's and Gullitt's past performances, I wonder if they could co-exist over a full season? ;^)

[Ombak]

TEAM A
Ombak, skipshady, Motterman, argentine soccer fan, C-Towner

Round: 11 (Week 11)
Selection: 11
51st overall pick

Player: Dino Zoff

Position: Goalkeeper

Career Span: late 60’s – 80’s
Nationality: Italian
Caps: 112, 59 as captain
Club Teams: Udinese, Mantova, Napoli, Juventus

Profile / Stats:

Zoff is most immediately known as the oldest player to lift the World Cup - at 40, he captained Italy to their third ever win in his fourth World Cup appearance (1970, 1974, 1978, 1982). Zoff also holds the record for most minutes without giving up a goal: 1142. In 1968 Italy had won the European Championships with Zoff a member of the squad.

Domestically, Zoff won 6 Serie A titles and two Cups, all with Juventus. In 1977 he added the UEFA Cup to his list of titles, twice however, he was on the losing end of the European Cup final (1973, 1983).

This selection: Unanimous.

Our team:

Zoff;
Vogts, Moore, Bergomi, Marzolini;
Matthews, Rijkaard, Didi, Gento;
Pelé, Eusébio

[tpmazembe]

Player: Dino Zoff
Position: Goalkeeper
Zoff also holds the record for most minutes without giving up a goal: 1142.
Our team:

Trivia. In what game and who was the player who put an end to the streak?

TEAM A
Ombak, skipshady, Motterman, argentine soccer fan, C-Towner

Zoff;
Vogts, Moore, Bergomi, Marzolini;
Matthews, Rijkaard, Didi, Gento;
Pelé, Eusébio
Congrats to Team A for making it through!

Our team considered 5 of your 11 (not counting Pele, as we knew he would not be available to us from the start) in our discussions of potential selections....2 of which we were prepared to pick had you not beaten us to them (Eusebio, Moore).

Very offensive formation with alot of skill on the ball. Fearsome strike force.

[kopiteinkc]

Trivia. In what game and who was the player who put an end to the streak?

Manno Sanon, Haiti, scored in their 3-1 loss to Italy in the 1974 World Cup.

[tpmazembe]

Manno Sanon, Haiti, scored in their 3-1 loss to Italy in the 1974 World Cup.
Yes.

[kopiteinkc]

Yes.

They're gonna have to be more difficult than that mate ;)

[imasyko]

Kopite - You're needed to post the all-time Liverpool team on the 'Best 11' thread. ;^)

[minorthreat]

Now that everyone has their goalkeeper, it looks like Real Ray was right about everyone being scared off by the era that one of the all-time greats played in. Since he's a Real Madrid fan like myself, I'm assuming he was referring to Ricardo Zamora - I know I brought him up in our deliberations, but ultimately there were just too many question marks over the 30's and the standard of goalkeeping in those days.

[Bauser]

TEAM B:

Members: Bauser, Auriaprottu

Round: 11 (Week 11)
Selection: 2
Total picks: 52

Player: Sir Robert "Bobby" Charlton

Position: Midfield

Career Span: 1956-74
Nationality: English
Born: 11th October 1937
Caps/goals: 106 / 49
Clubs: Manchester United (1956-73), Preston NE (1974)

Profile / Stats: [England]: World Cup winner 1966 [Club level] European Cup winner x 1, FA Cup winner x 1, English league champion x 3.

Bobby Charlton's name is synonymous with some of the greatest moments in the English game, but also with the highest traditions of sportsmanship and integrity. Bobby used his pace out of midfield and with a thunderous shot, scored some of the most spectacular goals English football has ever seen. Charlton remained faithful to Manchester United for virtually his entire professional career playing some 750 games and scoring 250 goals.

TEAM: Maradona (M/F), Passarella (CD), G.Müller (F), Van Basten (F), Deschamps (DM), Breitner (L&RB/CM), Cafu (RB/RM), Tardelli (M), Yashin (GK), Ruggeri (CD), B.Charlton (M).

[Dark Savante]

you have to declare your formation Bauser.

I have to say your team makes no sense to me. You have no left side to your midfield ?? unless you're putting Maradona there?

-----Yashin
---Ruggeri-Passarella
Cafu-----------Breitner
----------Deschamps
---Tardelli
-Charlton------Maradona
---Van Basten--Muller


??