Draft of Drafts

[Real Ray]

He was the keeper I was speaking of who I think in time, will be a fixture, removing one of the current consensus of top 5. One of the elite for sure.

[Dark Savante]

Taking Schmeichel suggests to me that you're planning to put Becks in midfield because there is no way you can have two commanders in the same space, Schmeichel is abrasive to say the least and Der Kaiser is not a captain who expects anything less then absolute power over his teams.

comme it seems to me that you don't have any faith in the older defenders? your defence is so modern that you could actually get them all to line up within 24hrs, lol, even Schmeichel is only a few months off full fitness. I'll go out on a limb and guess ur gonna put ur #1 boy in that backline as well!!!

[skipshady]

I think you can see Schmeichel's worth by looking at what's happened to Man U's defense since he left - they've been through, what, 10 starting keepers in 4 years?

[Dark Savante]

I think you can see Schmeichel's worth by looking at what's happened to Man U's defense since he left - they've been through, what, 10 starting keepers in 4 years?

tell me about it! :(

[comme]

Taking Schmeichel suggests to me that you're planning to put Becks in midfield because there is no way you can have two commanders in the same space, Schmeichel is abrasive to say the least and Der Kaiser is not a captain who expects anything less then absolute power over his teams.

comme it seems to me that you don't have any faith in the older defenders? your defence is so modern that you could actually get them all to line up within 24hrs, lol, even Schmeichel is only a few months off full fitness. I'll go out on a limb and guess ur gonna put ur #1 boy in that backline as well!!!

I do have faith in older defensive players, but alot of the newer ones have just fallen to us. There were other choices at GK but Schmeichel suits our team, in fact we were extremly close to picking another GK and if anyone had expressed a decisive preference we would have picked the other.

Also I think it is natural for us to take more modern defenders. Everyone can point to certain attackers and say "look how many goals they scored" and demonstrate that they were more dominant in their era than current attckers. Consequently you have to give modern defenders their props and say that they are more dominant than previous eras.

I don't think our next pick will be who you think, although other picks may force it. Remember you have already taken my No.1 and No. 2 boys in Maldini and Baresi, unless you plan to take David Ginola with your last pick you won't get a hattrick.

[argentine soccer fan]

Also I think it is natural for us to take more modern defenders. Everyone can point to certain attackers and say "look how many goals they scored" and demonstrate that they were more dominant in their era than current attckers.

I suppose we could come up with a criteria for defenders: 'Look how many forwards they injured'. :D

[Dark Savante]

I do have faith in older defensive players, but alot of the newer ones have just fallen to us. There were other choices at GK but Schmeichel suits our team, in fact we were extremly close to picking another GK and if anyone had expressed a decisive preference we would have picked the other.

Also I think it is natural for us to take more modern defenders. Everyone can point to certain attackers and say "look how many goals they scored" and demonstrate that they were more dominant in their era than current attckers. Consequently you have to give modern defenders their props and say that they are more dominant than previous eras.

I don't think our next pick will be who you think, although other picks may force it. Remember you have already taken my No.1 and No. 2 boys in Maldini and Baresi, unless you plan to take David Ginola with your last pick you won't get a hattrick.

Heh, I can't be anymore obvious without telling the whole draft who it is :D . The way your team is shaping up I wont be surprised to see him there. Your approach to this draft has surprised me to say the least.

[tpmazembe]

This is a very interesting thread, but what is this all for? I assume you're gonna compete with them somehow, but how?The primary reason was to put some perspective around arguments regarding the best ever players. The genesis for the idea was a discussion around September of 2003 in which arguments were being put forth about Zidane becoming the greatest of all time. Add that to the myriad of other threads regarding which modern players would become immortals, and the view that pre-80’s players generally get shorted on the boards, led to the idea.

There’s no end goal other than the intrinsic value of the exercise -- the bringing to light of some players that don’t often get mentioned, and the conclusions and debates around such an excercise. As you’ve notices, there are any number of avenues for discussion based on these picks. Once the teams are picked we can do more analysis as envisioned in the pre-amble.

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2240673&postcount=1 (http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2240673&postcount=1)

To your point Fleck, we could indeed put a poll up for BSers to pick a winning squad in an imaginary round robin competition between Teams A-E.

lastly, can we declare formations after the subs or do we have to do so with the first 11 chosen?You should post your formation following your 11th pick (last first team player selection). The subs were meant as way to recognize some additional players, but the excercise was to force us to think of best available 11.

There is one player in particular who many old timers say is better than DiStefano and Maradona. He’s the guy I’ve mentioned a few times about being sure he was a top 55; but to be honest, I didn’t nominate him to my team either! Hands off, were taking him as a sub :)

Well either the best left back for Argentina or arguably the best for Brazil will be left out. The question will be whether attack is valued over defence. It shows how deep that position is.Some would argue the best LB of all time.

[comme]

Heh, I can't be anymore obvious without telling the whole draft who it is :D . The way your team is shaping up I wont be surprised to see him there. Your approach to this draft has surprised me to say the least.


In what way has it surprised you? The players we have or the formation?

[Dark Savante]

In what way has it surprised you? The players we have or the formation?

Both. From our talks in other threads and your all time team I believe you favor a team very similar to the one I put up recently(you commented there was only 2changes you would make to it IIRC) I am quite surprised by how your team has turned out.. not in a negative way, but if someone had asked me to line up comme's team it wouldn't have some of those players in it, heh.

[comme]

I think we agree very closely on many areas is which is perhaps why we are not on the same team.

If I look at my side it is not the one that I expected to get either, of my all time dream team only two members survived to our second round of picks (we had already taken two of them in Puskas and Beckenbauer). I would have liked to have taken Yashin and pressed for him right from the start but it was the opinion of my team that we should wait. However, much of my team has worked out for tactical reasons. The pick of Zidane seemed to just fall to us and i hoped that by taking him I could keep my team happy (they had already allowed me to take Puskas). While I felt that Best has a special spark and versatitlity that would allow us to play with winger if we wished or as a three man attacking midfield. Bozsik was someone both lanman and myself pushed hard for and I am delighted to have. Once Maldini had gone Carlos seemed the logical choice, given that we have Zidane in front of him we needed someone who could overlap to provide width. The other player in that position I would have pushed for is still available. However, I think he lacks some of the athleticism required to get up and down as much as i would hope for. You know how much I like Desailly, given that we have Beckenbauer I wanted someone with more brute force.

Overall our position in the draft has forced us into many of the decisions and while they may not have been my initial choices they work well. I do hope however to have some of my favourites amongst the subs.

[Dark Savante]

You will not believe the epic debate going on in D Camp :( it was all moving smoothly, but there is now a huge spanner in the works and machine has ground to a halt. You may very well be surprised how our team turns out as it is edging away from what I envisaged.

If you'd have asked me how I felt the team was shaping up a week ago I would have said 10/10 but now I'm not so sure. .

I think tpmazembe was very clever teaming up the groups the way he did, lol, I haven't had to type so much on this board ever before as am doing now in D Camp. It would have been so much easier to have 5man teams..


I like the defensive midfield your team is shaping up to have.

[Merengue]

I too think tpmazembe has done a very good job in selecting these teams. I'm on a team with comme, Ianman and Excape Goat and we all have different perspectives on which players to select. We have had our fair share of debates as well but somehow we've managed through consensus and give and take to build what I think is a very good team. Like comme, our team doesn't really look like how I'd have imagined it before this process began but we have had a lot of fun building it. Kudos to tpmazembe for this great idea!

[comme]

What are you up to DS? It's time to post.

[Spartak]

What are you up to DS? It's time to post.
Were sorta deadlocked. Get off our back, will get the pick in by the end of May, don't you worry ;) :D

[comme]

This is the second time it has happened though. ;)

[tpmazembe]

Were sorta deadlocked. Get off our back, will get the pick in by the end of May, don't you worry ;) :DMust be an interesting debate going on....but the process must go forward....

Team D should go with majority decision at this point (even if full team has not weighed-in)...in case of an absolute numerical tie, the selection is at the team captain's discretion.

Team C will make a pick at 12 EST whether or not you guys are on the board, as our pick is for a position you have already filled.

I hope you all are going to share some of the tidbits of your discussion!

[Dark Savante]

Must be an interesting debate going on....but the process must go forward....

Team D should go with majority decision at this point (even if full team has not weighed-in)...in case of an absolute numerical tie, the selection is at the team captain's discretion.

Team C will make a pick at 12 EST whether or not you guys are on the board, as our pick is for a position you have already filled.

I hope you all are going to share some of the tidbits of your discussion!
hey t, I would rather you move on then for me to just overrule the guys in my team, that'd be a cop out from my end and would lead to a more then disgruntled camp. I'm sorry to all fellow teams about this delay but we (D-Camp) are in a genuine dead-lock this debate will actually determine the destiny of how this team will play and even the system it will use, so I believe it has to be sorted out diplomatically.

As your team has already decided on its pick and it cannot interfere with ours I'd be grateful if you could move on and give us the extra hours to reach a conclusion before team B are up.

Again apologies for the delay. As for sharing tidbits, lol that's up to the other guys to decide. We're a very close group yanno ;) and I thinks you knew that the strong personalities in this group would cause some friction...you little minx you :D

[Ombak]

A real dead-lock? As in a tie at 2x2 or 1x1x1x1? Cause if it's 3x1 or 2x1x1 then it's time to move on and select the one who got most votes.

[Dark Savante]

A real dead-lock? As in a tie at 2x2 or 1x1x1x1? Cause if it's 3x1 or 2x1x1 then it's time to move on and select the one who got most votes.
2x2, if it were any other way this would have been decided immediately.