Draft of Drafts

[condor11]

Ok, we can talk in riddles, but I'd wager Condor11 means a different player from the one you're all discussing. Just check the team which he supports, which should give you a clue.

Condor, are you watching your team take on mine right now? I'm not saying anything.

im listening to it;)

and no they guy im talking about isnt peruvian

[tpmazembe]

im listening to it;)

and no they guy im talking about isnt peruvianWe are talking different cats...good catch ASF.

It must be a Chilean who played his best years abroad.

[Dark Savante]

lol has this turned into a riddle now? A Chilean a Peruvian an Argentinian and a Brazilian??

For the record I am reffering to a Brazilian from way back when...

[lanman]

Just for the record I feel that this draft has done extremely well in picking the best players - from my own personal top 30 I only feel that three players are missing - two I am campaigning for and the other simply does not fit our team.

[lanman]

For the record I am reffering to a Brazilian from way back when...

So am I - I'm going to be a bit worried if someone else is being suggested here.

[minorthreat]

So even ignoring what I feel was his poor technique compared to more modern goalies, what did Yashin really accomplish when faced off with the better keepers of his era in the big matches?

Personally I'm glad Yashin was chosen as that means my team doesn't have to debate about selecting him. In my view there are far better goalies still available.Yashin's technique was by and large due to the fact that he didn't grow up playing soccer. He was originally a hockey goalkeeper.

[Dark Savante]

TEAM D
Dark Savante - captain, Spartak, Real Ray, Mobile


Round: 9 (Week 9)
Selection: 4
44th overall pick

Player: Gordon Banks
Born: 20 December, 1937, Sheffield, England
Position: Goalkeeper
Career Span:1950's - 1970's
Nationality: English
Caps/Goals: 73/0
Club Teams: Chesterfield, Leicester City, Stoke City, Fort Lauderdale Strikers

Profile / Stats:

1961: FA Cup runner-up (Leicester City)
1963: FA Cup runner-up (Leicester City)
1964: League Cup (Leicester City)
1965: League Cup runner-up (Leicester City)
1966: World Cup (England)
1972: League Cup (Stoke City)
Footballer of the Year


England has produced a long line of goalkeeping legends over the years. The best of them all was Gordon Banks. Born in Sheffield, he joined third division side Chesterfield as a part-time pro in 1955. After four years, Banks was ready for bigger tasks and joined Leicester City in 1959 for £7000. It was at Filbert Street he started to show his class. Banks and Leicester reached the final of the FA Cup in his second season, but lost to Spurs who completed The Double that year.

Having lost another FA Cup final in 1963, Gordon finally could pick up a winner’s medal in the League Cup the following year. Banks was in the England team by now and started to make his name world wide. England hosted the World Cup in the summer of 1966. Banks experienced his finest weeks as a footballer when his team reached the final having just conceded one goal, a penalty from Portugal’s Eusebio. He really lived up to his nickname Banks of England. Gordon was as safe between the posts as money in the bank of England! After a dramatic final against West Germany, England could lift the World Cup for the first and so far only time. Banks was the best goalkeeper in the tournament.

England travelled to Mexico to defend their title in 1970. If Banks was famous for winning the World Cup in 1966, he would become even more so after this tournament. Much thanks to an incident called ‘The Save of the Century’. England played Brazil in the first round and a Jairzinho cross from the right was met perfectly by Pelé who headed it down towards Gordon’s bottom right corner. As the ball hit the ground in front of the goalline, he managed to flick it with his outstreched right hand as it came up. The ball rose over the bar for a corner. Despite this save, England lost 1-0 and later would lose 3-2 against West Germany in the quarterfinal when Banks was sidelined with an injury.

It was a car accident which made him blind on his right eye that caused his retirement in 1972. Just months earlier he had been voted England’s Player of the Year and also won another League Cup with his club Stoke City. Gordon Banks kept 35 clean sheets and only let in 57 goals in his 73 appearances for England. A proud record for one of the greatest goalkeepers the world has ever seen.

Decision: 3:1

[tpmazembe]

TEAM D

Player: Gordon Banks

Despite this save, England lost 1-0 and later would lose 3-2 against West Germany in the quarterfinal when Banks was sidelined with an injury.
England where leading 2-0 with 20 minutes left, and W.Germany came back to win 3-2 in OT. You have to wonder if Banks' presence would have made a difference.

[kopiteinkc]

England where leading 2-0 with 20 minutes left, and W.Germany came back to win 3-2 in OT. You have to wonder if Banks' presence would have made a difference.

There's no "wonder" about it.

Showing my age here, but I remember this match vividly. Peter Bonetti played instead of the sick Banks and Bonetti was clearly at fault on at least two of the goals.

Of course the substitution choices made by Ramsey didn't help that day either.

With Banks in goal England would certainly have won that game. He was the best keeper I have ever seen play live and that's saying something.

[comme]

Sorry DS, but for me that is a weak pick. I don't want to compare him to players still available, but there was one keeper I said to my team I felt was overrated and that was Banks. The man is a myth and while comparing him to Peter Benetti may put him in the top class, for me he should not be the second GK to go.

[tpmazembe]

Once Team E picks their keeper it would be nice to reconcile.....

There's no "wonder" about it. He was the best keeper I have ever seen play live and that's saying something.....with..........



The man is a myth and while comparing him to Peter Benetti may put him in the top class, for me he should not be the second GK to go.I fully expect comme to back up his view with a comparison to his teams eventual GK choice; kopiteinkc, please return to this subject.

Yashin got the shaft from MC, and now Banks. Who knew that goal tending would be the most controversial of selections?

[argentine soccer fan]

I am sure that we can all make convincing arguments that so and so is better on a certain aspect of the game. But I would be comfortable with either of the goalkeepers picked so far. Great players, Yashin and Banks.

[Real Ray]

Who knew that goal tending would be the most controversial of selections?

As I hinted in an earlier post, I thought this would indeed be an issue.

There is more or less, an historical consenus on the top 5; all of the Century XI polls pretty much bare this out. Although our team more or less agreed on Banks, there was a mention of a player outside the 5. If by fate we had picked after Yashin and Banks were gone, I think we would have had to fight for our pick a bit more. I have a feeling one of the 5 won't make the grade, and the player mentioned during our selection will be picked.

I don't think there is much between the top group; he's worthy, but I think his selection to a large degree is related to the AC Milan selections. I'll be surprised if he's not taken.

[Bauser]

Almost 50 players have been selected so far and Geoff Thomas is still available.

[Dark Savante]

Sorry DS, but for me that is a weak pick. I don't want to compare him to players still available, but there was one keeper I said to my team I felt was overrated and that was Banks. The man is a myth and while comparing him to Peter Benetti may put him in the top class, for me he should not be the second GK to go.

A myth? How so?

Anyways after Yashin all the old school keepers level out whoever you pick. GK's have only truly changed during the 90's so I don't think they'll be anyone to take (unless you're going ultra modern) that I personally would rate above Banks. Remember this draft is about players performing to the peak of their ability.. Banks is a big game player and our defence isn't the type your going to get many shots and/or crosses off against. Banks is a good pick for our team.

[Dark Savante]

Almost 50 players have been selected so far and Geoff Thomas is still available.

And Carsten Jancker!! >_<

[comme]

A myth? How so?

Anyways after Yashin all the old school keepers level out whoever you pick. GK's have only truly changed during the 90's so I don't think they'll be anyone to take (unless you're going ultra modern) that I personally would rate above Banks. Remember this draft is about players performing to the peak of their ability.. Banks is a big game player and our defence isn't the type your going to get many shots and/or crosses off against. Banks is a good pick for our team.

His reputation is too largely based on making "the greatest save of all time" and winning the WC for England. In this draft so far we have managed to avoid some of the players who I consider to be myths but now you have fallen in to the trap. Don't get me wrong, I expected Banks to go highly and it is only really in the last few months that my opinions on him have changed that much. However, I believe there are two better UK keepers (possibly 4)and that Banks belongs in the top 10, not the top 2.

[Dark Savante]

His reputation is too largely based on making "the greatest save of all time" and winning the WC for England. In this draft so far we have managed to avoid some of the players who I consider to be myths but now you have fallen in to the trap..

I don't see it that way. Banks was rock solid when in big games and was a reliable and adept keeper on reaction saves. If he could do it in Englands backline which consisted of Jack CHarlton, lol, then he can damn sure do it for a backline like our which is superior in every way.


Don't get me wrong, I expected Banks to go highly and it is only really in the last few months that my opinions on him have changed that much.

Why have they only changed in the last few months? What enlightment have you recieved?


However, I believe there are two better UK keepers (possibly 4)and that Banks belongs in the top 10, not the top 2.

For consistency or for game saving moments?

[comme]

As I said I think he is a very good keeper, top 10 probably and there is no denying that he is playing behind a great defence but remember that he is playing against the best attackers ever. He was reliable, no doubt about it and he produced some unbelievable saves, but then on those criteria you could have picked David Seaman. Remember his save against Sheffield United in last season's FA cup semi final? That stands up there with any ever made, throw in a WC winners medal and you have Banks.

What has changed my mind has been a whole rethink of the players that in Britain (and the same is true elsewhere I'm sure) we are told are the gods of the game. It all revolves around winning, clearly that reflects the fact that great players are often winners but it is convenient that they happen to cluster in groups. If you were to ask most people to name England's 10 best players ever then probably 3 or 4 of the top 6 or 7 would come from the WC winning team. To me it seems odd that you would get so many statistically speaking. In my opinion players with the big trophies (particularly WCs) are inflated by the media and the public beyond the recognition they necesarily deserve. Banks is a case in point. There are another 4 British GKs who could have played just as successfully in that team and would go second in this list of GKs. Banks was not the best of them.

[comme]

Team E- comme, Excape Goat, Merengue, lanman

Round 9

Pick 5 (overall pick 45)

Sandor Kocsis

23 September 1929-21 July 1978

Postion: Inside Right

Nationality: Hungarian

International Career: 68 caps 75 goals

Clubs: KTC, Ferencvaros, Honved, Young Boys Berne, Barcelona

International Honours: Olympic Champion 1952, World Cup Runner Up 1954.

Club Honours: Hungarian Championship (1949, 1952, 1954, 1955), Spanish Champion (1959, 1960), Spanish Cup (1959, 1963), European Cup Runner Up (1961), Fairs Cup Winner (1960) Fairs Cup Runner Up (1962)


Known as The Man With The Golden Head for his profound aerial ability, Sandor Kocsis was one of the greates goalscorers of all time. Quick, mobile, elegant and two footed there was much more to his game than heading, although it is for this that he is best remembered. Only 5'10" tall he could outjump almost anyone and would regularly drop deep or drift out to the wing making him almost impossible to mark.
Only 3 players have scored more goals in international football than Kocsis, although they have all played at least 21 games more to acheive that. Even more remarkable is that he scored these goals whilst having a team mate who hit 83 goals and another who hit 39. He has arguably the most impressive strike rate of any player - no player with more than 40 caps boasts a better goals per game ratio and only two players with over 30 caps can better his. Scorer of a then record 7 hat-tricks, he was only the second player to score 4 goals in a World Cup match and is fourth in the all-time World Cup scoring lists, again having played fewer games than all those above him.
His partnership with Puskas is the most productive ever in International football - the pair took to the field on 64 occassions and between them scored 132 goals in those games. On only 8 occassions did neither of them find the net and Hungary only lost 4 of those games.
At club level he was part of the legendary Honved side, and left Hungary along with team mates Puskas and Czibor after the Hungarian revolution. After a spell as Player/Coach in Switzerland he settled with Czibor in Barcelona, who he lead to two championships and the European Cup final. He scored an impressive 140 goals in 194 games for the Catalan side and remained in Barcelona after his retirement in 1966.
Tragically he took his own life in 1978 - the amputation of one of his legs was followed by the diagnosis of stomach cancer, and he was found dead having jumped from his clinic window.