Draft of Drafts

[argentine soccer fan]

I see it like this: There are alot of great centrebacks left, but there are not many great libero's left. The way the draft has gone nearly every backline has defenders with defined roles. In most cases the libero type player will sit slightly behind his partner and clean up after him and be that last line of defence. I want the most precise and composed guy for this job and not a 'hurlier burlier' type CB. How many precision tackling libero types can you think of that you would pick ahead of the guys taken? or even on par with these guys for that particular job they have in this draft? The numbers are tiny in comparison to the other positions... so I think it makes perfect sense they were taken almost off the bat.

I agree with DS. The choices for that type of player are very limited. I think there is still one player out there who wasn't picked and who meets the characteristics of a great libero. But I wouldn't rank him above the ones which were picked.

As Skipshady said, after we got Pele we agreed that with our next pick we wanted our defensive anchor, even before we realized that other teams were doing the same. By the time our second pick came up, only Moore was left from our very short list. At that point it was a no-brainer for us.

Interestingly, our team had no trouble finding and agreeing on the attacking players that we wanted, but our best debates have been about the defensive guys, and the laterals in particular.

I think after you see our next pick, the rest of the teams will agree to give up. :D

[Real Ray]

I would not have satisfied with the reverse - choosing my forwards and O-Mids with the last five choices....so although there are indeed more renown striker types, the difference between the "greatest of the greats" and the "greats" is more significant at the offensive positions (IMO).

I was an advocate for the opposite to a degree.

My view was that if you built from the back at the top-end of the pool, and secured key players in the middle (all of which we have done), you could go much deeper on the depth chart vis-a-vis strikers and keepers. We can play Gullit up front and pair him with a great striker; play him in mid and create a partnership that would be very dangerous. Using some of the Century XI lists there are still quite a few strikers left in the top 50 players all-time. Can't really say that re: backs. Good players left yes, but not historical players. IMO there are still two top 20 strikers left. In addition there are a couple of pre-war players I covet, who because of the way the game was played in that era, have a unique versatility. I will probably be out-voted on them, so it will be interesting if others are pushing for them in their groups.

There is a central-mid still on the board who I thought would make the cut; it will be interesting to hear why-probably will echo the reason he rated lower in a recent poll by the supporters of his club.

In addition, there are players who's quality was beyond question but, due to injury, had limited careers that may not give them the needed time to have a truly great legacy (hint: see Euro '96). This particular player is viewed as the only true successor of arguably his nation's greatest player. And of course, there is an even more obvious player, still active today.

Should be interesting the last rounds.

[minorthreat]

TEAM A:

Members: Ombak, Skipshady, C-towner, Argentine soccer fan

Round: 9 (Week 9)
Selection: 1
Total picks: 41

Player: Berti "Der Terrier" Vogts

Position: Right back

Career Span: 1964-1979
Born: 30 December 1946
Nationality: German
Caps/goals: 96/1
Clubs: VfR Büttgen, Borussia Mönchengladbach

Career Highlights:
1 World Cup (1974)
2 UEFA Cups (1975, 1979)
5 Bundesliga titles (1970, 1971, 1975, 1976, 1977)
1 German Cup
2 German Footballer of the Year awards (1971, 1979)

Hans-Hubert "Berti" Vogts started his career in his hometown club VfR Büttgen. The right-sided defender was soon picked up by one of West Germany’s top clubs at the time, Borussia Mönchengladbach, where he established himself and played for fourteen years. Nicknamed “Der Terrier” for always fighting for every ball as it was his last, Vogts was a big favourite with his home crowd. In 1967, he made his debut for West Germany and three years later he took part in his first big tournament, the World Cup in Mexico. Berti played in every game as the Germans captured bronze medals.

Vogts seldom had to settle for second best at club level. His impressive roll of honour included five league championships, one domestic cup title and two UEFA Cup titles all with the same club, Borussia Mönchengladbach. On a personal note, he was named German Player of the Year twice. One trophy that eluded him was the European Cup which he came very close to winning in 1977 when his team lost 3-1 to Liverpool in the final in Rome.

By then he was already a World Cup winner. Three years earlier, West Germany hosted and won the World Cup with Vogts as one of their most important players. He played in all the seven matches including the final where he was marking the Dutch star Johan Cruyff with success. He was infact an ever-present in every of the three World Cups he participated in, making his total of games to 19, beaten by only five other players in World Cup history.

In 1977, Berti took over the captaincy of the national team from Franz Beckenbauer and kept it until after the Argentina World Cup the following year which was no success for him or the team as West Germany bowed out in the second phase. He retired as a player in 1979 and started working as a scout before taking over the German national team as coach in 1990 leading them to victory in Euro 1996.

Our team so far: Pele, Moore, Eusebio, Didi, Rijkaard, Mattews, Bergomi, Gento, Vogts

[Mobile]

Interesting choice.

[tpmazembe]

TEAM A:

Members: Ombak, Skipshady, C-towner, Argentine soccer fan

Round: 9 (Week 9)
Selection: 1
Total picks: 41

Player: Berti "Der Terrier" Vogts

Position: Right back
Good choice.

Now that every team seems to have picked their RB, we can wait until the last round to pick ours.

[comme]

I think its clear what responsibilities the players of Team A have, attackers attack and defenders defend.

Its clear now that you are playing Bergomi at CB, and I'm still concerned about a lack of pace at the back but Vogts is a very good marker.

[argentine soccer fan]

Vogts brings our team great defensive skills, toughness, a fighting spirit and strong will. I think he will compliment Moore/Bergomi well, and we have excellent options for defensive variations as we have two excellent man-markers and one of the best sweepers of all time. Not to mention one of the top DM of all time in Rijkaard. And one defensive pick still coming up.

[Dark Savante]

Vogts brings our team great defensive skills, toughness, a fighting spirit and strong will. I think he will compliment Moore/Bergomi well, and we have excellent options for defensive variations as we have two excellent man-markers and one of the best sweepers of all time. Not to mention one of the top DM of all time in Rijkaard. And one defensive pick still coming up.

You are aware Johan is snarling at his bit to get at Berti right?

Coach: 'Johan, you are up against Berti'
Johan: 'Finally, it is my time for revenge, Johan never has two bad games!! He can't whup me, ahm the champ, Johan kum bi ay, Johan kum bi ay(sp)' [/mohammed ali cruyff]
Coach: 'I know Johan, I know'

Johan scuttles off to his chamber to practice huniliating 'Berti' by 'Cruyff Turning' a dummy with 'Berti's' face on it 1000 times. Yea, our boy is ready. :D

[argentine soccer fan]

You are aware Johan is snarling at his bit to get at Berti right?

Coach: 'Johan, you are up against Berti'
Johan: 'Finally, it is my time for revenge, Johan never has two bad games!! He can't whup me, ahm the champ, Johan kum bi ay, Johan kum bi ay(sp)' [/mohammed ali cruyff]
Coach: 'I know Johan, I know'

Johan scuttles off to his chamber to practice huniliating 'Berti' by 'Cruyff Turning' a dummy with 'Berti's' face on it 1000 times. Yea, our boy is ready. :D

Berti Vogts says: 'Bringen sie es auf, kleiner bursche!'

[Twenty26Six]

Johan scuttles off to his chamber to practice humiliating 'Berti' by 'Cruyff Turning' a dummy with 'Berti's' face on it 1000 times. Yea, our boy is ready. :D

haha, what the hell? 3:38am post time says it all there. At least I hope that's your excuse. haha

[Bauser]

TEAM B:

Members: Bauser, Auriaprottu

Round: 9 (Week 9)
Selection: 2
Total picks: 42

Player: Lev Yashin

Position: Goalkeeper

Career Span: 1948-70
Nationality: Russian
Born: 22th October 1929
Caps: 78
Clubs: Dinamo Moscow (1948-70)

Profile / Stats: [Soviet Union]: Olympic champion 1956, European Champion 1960 [Club level] Soviet champion x 5, Soviet cup winner x 3.

Lev Yashin, famous for always wearing all-black when playing, is arguably the greatest goalkeeper the world has ever seen. He played 22 seasons for Dinamo Moscow, the only club he ever represented. He made an unprecedented contribution to the game, setting the modern standards for goalkeeping. Being a great athlete in addition to all his courage, he was among the first goalkeepers to command the entire penalty area and did it with unmatched confidence and reliability. He was equally impressive on the goalline with stunning reflexes and plasticity which made him nearly flawless. Most notably, he confronted the common attitude of catching the ball, inventing various ways of simply kicking it away from the penalty area when required.

One of the proudest moments in his career was when he won the "European Player of the Year" award in 1963. He still remains the only goalkeeper to have won that prize. He retired 41 years old playing against a team of European stars in 1971 having kept 270 clean sheets and he is also rumoured to have saved over 150 penalties in his long career. In 1986 a knee injury led
to an amputation of his leg and only four years later he passed away after
surgery complications.

TEAM SO FAR: Maradona (M/F), Passarella (CD), G.Müller (F), Van Basten (F), Deschamps (DM), Breitner (L&RB/CM), Cafu (RB/RM), Tardelli (M), Yashin (GK).

[tpmazembe]

TEAM B:

Members: Bauser, Auriaprottu

Round: 9 (Week 9)
Selection: 2
Total picks: 42

Player: Lev Yashin

Position: Goalkeeper
TEAM SO FAR: Maradona (M/F), Passarella (CD), G.Müller (F), Van Basten (F), Deschamps (DM), Breitner (L&RB/CM), Cafu (RB/RM), Tardelli (M), Yashin (GK).The best choice for GK in my opinion, especially for leadership quality.

Our first goal keeper comes in the 9th round....an indication of relative worth of position?

All things being equal, did any team have a keeper rated higher than Yashin?

[Dark Savante]

I said it, team B are the thorn in my side :mad: you took our goalie!! :(

The best move of the draft so far, dammit.

[Dark Savante]

The best choice for GK in my opinion, especially for leadership quality.

All things being equal, did any team have a keeper rated higher than Yashin?

You're not getting a better goalie then the cat!!

[Dark Savante]

Berti Vogts says: 'Bringen sie es auf, kleiner bursche!'

Ha, Johan is ready! Like a big fat ripened tomato, 'Berti' is going down!!

This'll make the rumble in the jungle look like a farce!!

[Dark Savante]

haha, what the hell? 3:38am post time says it all there. At least I hope that's your excuse. haha

Seriously, Johan just wanted me to let the world know his thoughts on the upcoming fight! :D

[Ombak]

I said it, team B are the thorn in my side :mad: you took our goalie!! :(

The best move of the draft so far, dammit.

I think they took everyone's goalie, notwithstanding how some teams might have already thought there was no chance of getting him anyways and were planinng according to their position in the draft.

A fine pre-emptive strike.

[Dark Savante]

A fine pre-emptive strike.

Indeed. Fantastic move.

[lanman]

All things being equal, did any team have a keeper rated higher than Yashin?

I don't think there is a keeper rated higher, but their are two, possibly three I would put on a par with him with another 4 or 5 a bit further behind.

[comme]

I suggested taking Yashin in the first round as he was the only player (along with Djalma Santos) who is an absolute must in his position. To be honest I am extremely dissapointed and feel that our strategy was wrong in waiting so long, but what can you do?

The only thing I can say is that in rewatching Yashin recently (very good program on ITV2 about the European Championships) he is a bit unsuited to the modern era. His command of his area did not look quite that of some more recent GKs. Still, undeniably the best.