Draft of Drafts

[tpmazembe]

I like this idea, because it would create more interesting debate, which is what this game is all about. But would it be fair to change the rules halfway through the game? It was tpmazembe's rule that we must have a line of four, so maybe he can comment further about this issue. Or, we could have the team captains vote on it.The thought of forcing a back four was primary to have as a basis for comparison for the great defenders over the decades, and secondarily to make sure teams attempted to field realistic formation.

There’s no set rule on 4-4-2. One could use the old 4-3-3, or 4-2-4, or 4-1-3-2 or the god awful 4-1-4-1. Plus, as we all know these pre-game formations become less relevant in a fluid game. If you picked a Serginho for example (I do this because its improbable he’ll make the cut) at LeftBack, you could probably use him more as a winger, and have an extra defensive minded Mid to cover his forays up-field.

Since we agreed to this in the beginning, I’m of the opinion we keep it. Plus, it would be unfair to teams in the middle of the process as they probably have thought through their selection strategy with that in mind.I know I might have picked differently.

[tpmazembe]

Not that I am a particularly big fan of the coldcrush four, but that is where the screenname comes from. Bonus points to you for being the first to point that out.

I always hear you talking [in this thread] about old tapes available for matches. Where can I find these?How can you not be a fan of the ColdCrush, yet cop the name? :)
Like the elusive Santos tapes, half the fun is getting your hands on a ColdCrush jam….

I do often reference games and have never linked sources. Let me rectify.

Having lived in different countries and having family in different countries as well (one of the good points of being an immigrant I guess) my access to games may be more varied than some. Here are a few leads you might want to try:

All of the guys below are traders, and are seeking to exchange games in order to grow their libraries; or sell games if you don’t have games to trade. The picture quality game to game will vary as they make copies of copies. They will often have an index of the picture quality..

I am not recommending anyone of them. Purchase at your own risk. But my experience has been good with the ones from whom I have purchased.

There is a gentleman in California that I have bought/exchanged tapes from who is honest and has great stuff (especially Brasilian Selecao material). It is not his primary business so you might have to wait to get your tapes, but its worth it in order to get some seminal games. He’s located in the S.Fran area and he uses Paypal.

http://www.rickfigueiredo.com/futebolvideos.html#futebol (http://www.rickfigueiredo.com/futebolvideos.html#futebol)

There is another guy from Canada who has even more, especially European club games but I’ve never bought from him. He was referred to me by the previous gentleman. I can’t remember his site, but will post as soon as I can.

These guys out of Brasil have good games as well.

http://www.futebolemvideo.cjb.net/ (http://www.futebolemvideo.cjb.net/)

I’ve communicated with this German cat, but never bought from him. He’s got an extensive German and European selection.

http://members.aol.com/Olafthon1/Fussball.html (http://members.aol.com/Olafthon1/Fussball.html)

Finally, many of the available WC games are widely available from official outfits such as Soccer Learning Systems.

http://www.soccervideos.com/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/store/wc.asp?U+scstore+npnf1262osvffdd66dd (http://www.soccervideos.com/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/store/wc.asp?U+scstore+npnf1262osvffdd66dd)

SLS's picture quality is greater and more uniform as it comes from masters, but the price is much heftier. And, the selection is limited if you are interested in stuff outside WCs.

I wish the BBC would open up their vaults and sell their archives – they must have everything one could wish for.

Maybe other BS posters can link other sources as well -- (I remember Rangers00 saying he collected a fair number) -- there are definitely games I have wanted to get for some time [number one on the list is 1962 Santos vs. Benfica complete game at the Stadium of Light, Lisbon].

If anyone wants to inquire, I don’t exchange videos…too time consuming. I’m strictly a purchaser.

[tpmazembe]

Bulls***. Deschamps was class through and through. A superb player to balance up the midfield with. He didn't steal the headlines in the morning papers, but was always an achiever who kept on working. He had a long and distinguished career playing at the very top of the international game for many years even if he didn't score the spectacular goals treasured by TV-viewers. We have other players in our team for that.That's true. He definetely was a supreme roll-player. But, to Spartak's point, a little early for him to be chosen (if at all). He is a surprise to me as well. But, if he can do for Maradona what Makelele did for Zidane at Real, then.... Plus he can fill the hole when Passarella goes forwardOK, the gloves are coming off .I can think of 20-30 better defensive midfielders whom I would pick over Didier. He simply doesn't belong in our list.Are you serious, or using hyperbole? If you are, I'll take that bet Spartak. I bet you can't name 30 better Defensive mids. We'll leave that for when the draft is over.

[argentine soccer fan]

LOL! Team B does not get a break from the critics. They pick Van Basten, a player we probably all wanted, and we criticize them for going after the best player available without considering the needs of the team. Then they make what I think is a great tactical pick in Deschamps and they get criticized because they didn't pick the best player available. :D

Spartak, I agree that there are a some better all-around defensive midfielders than Deschamp, but I think he could be a great compliment to Diego Maradona and for that reason is a very astute choice. Great teams need role players.

[Spartak]

[/font]I'll take that bet Spartak. I bet you can't name 30 better Defensive mids. We'll leave that for when the draft is over.
No hyperbole. I'm serious. I'm assuming that all five teams are probably gonna only use one DM. If anybody on this board really thinks that Didier Deschamps was one of the 5 greatests defensive midfielders of all-time please come and explain yourself(Not you Bauser, I already know where you stand :D )I can even name 10 current defensive mids that I think are better than Deschamps ever was. We'll have to wait until after the draft though because I don't want to give you guys any ideas ;)

[tpmazembe]

No hyperbole. I'm serious. I'm assuming that all five teams are probably gonna only use one DM. If anybody on this board really thinks that Didier Deschamps was one of the 5 greatests defensive midfielders of all-time please come and explain yourself(Not you Bauser, I already know where you stand :D )I can even name 10 current defensive mids that I think are better than Deschamps ever was. We'll have to wait until after the draft though because I don't want to give you guys any ideas ;)
I agree that its unlikely that any team put 2 D-mids when so many multi-skilled mids are still out there.

Team C's pick will follow the Round 5 trend with another....interesting how that worked out.

[tpmazembe]

TEAM C: Efernandez9, maczebus, martin cutler, tpmazembe

Round 5 (week 5)
Selection 3
23rd overall pick
Player: Lottar Mattaus
Born: March 21, 1961, Erlangen, Germany
Position: Midfielder (Defensive or Central), Libero
Career Span: 1979-2000
Nationality: German
Club Teams: Borussia Moechengladbach, Bayern Munich, Inter Milan, NY MetroStars
National Team: 150 Caps / 23 goals
Career Highlights:

6 Bundesliga Championships
5 German Cups
1 Serie A Championship
2 EUFA Cups (one each with Bayern and Inter)
1 European Championship
1 World Cup (and 2 second places)

Elected Player of the WC 1990
World Footballer of the Year 1990
European Footballer of the Year 1990
5 World Cup appearances

One of the most powerful midfielders world football has ever witnessed, Mattaus started his major pro career as with Borussia Moechengladbach as a defensive midfield specialist. He entered the W.German national squad in 1980 and remained a fixture until 2000! In that time he played defensive mid, central mid, offensive mid, and libero – a testament to his footballing IQ and willingness to do whatever the team needed.

He was instrumental in winning Inter’s one Serie A championship of the last 30 odd years [feel free to correct me here], and was universally acclaimed as the best player of WC 1990.

Blessed with a powerful shot, stamina and an uncompromising will to win, Matteus stamped his signature on every team he played for in his prime. He began as a purely defensive midfielder with Borussia and then went on to differing midfield roles, as needed by his team and as his talent allowed him. In the last quarter of his career he retreated to the heart of defence were he distinguished himself as well.

Mattaus combined power, skill, and pace with a ruthless eye for the goal. When West Germany lifted the World Cup in 1990, his brilliant individual goal against Yugoslavia along with the three others that followed, and the commanding nature of his displays earned him MVP.

Our selection: Majority
Team C status: DiStefano, Garrincha, Platini, Facchetti, Mattaus
http://www.soccer-europe.com/Profiles/Matthaus.html (http://www.soccer-europe.com/Profiles/Matthaus.html)
http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/matthaeus-intl.html (http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/matthaeus-intl.html)

[minorthreat]

If anyone drops out, I'd be interested in doing this.

[argentine soccer fan]

If anyone drops out, I'd be interested in doing this.

If it's ok with tpmazembe, you might want to PM our team captain, Ombak. One of our teammates (Motterman) never showed up to participate in our discussions. It's been Ombak, Skipshady and me.

[argentine soccer fan]

TEAM C: Efernandez9, maczebus, martin cutler, tpmazembe

Round 5 (week 5)
Selection 3
23rd overall pick
Player: Lottar Mattaus

We had considered Lottar Matthaus. for our team. It came down to him and Rijkaard. Probably the two best defensive midfielders of all time, and also two of the most versatile players of all time. Matthaus could be played basically anywhere in the field except for goalkeeper.

Anybody who loves football should get a tape of the 1986 World Cup Final. A great football match, but also a great game of chess between two great coaches, involving their best players. The duel between Matthaus and Maradona is priceless to watch. Maradona was the unquestionable leader and creative force for Argentina. So, Beckenbauer sent Matthaus to mark Maradona man to man and basically attempt to keep him from touching the ball. And Matthaus did just that, in impressive fashion. Bilardo's Argentina adjusted to that tactic by using Maradona as a decoy and thus also taking Matthaus out of the action. The results? Maradona, who had been dominant for the whole World Cup, hardly touched the ball. But Germany also missed Matthaus creative contributions.

It was trully a duel of titans. Ultimately, Maradona created the winning goal the one time that he got free of Matthaus. And Argentina's first goal came from a free kick, after a Matthaus foul on Maradona. So, we can say that Maradona and Bilardo got the best of it.

(Four years latter, in a much less appealing match, Matthaus and Beckenbauer would get their revenge.)

Anyway, great pick for team C.

[tpmazembe]

Anybody who loves football should get a tape of the 1986 World Cup Final. A great football match, but also a great game of chess between two great coaches, involving their best players. The duel between Matthaus and Maradona is priceless to watch. Maradona was the unquestionable leader and creative force for Argentina. So, Beckenbauer sent Matthaus to mark Maradona man to man and basically attempt to keep him from touching the ball. And Matthaus did just that, in impressive fashion. Bilardo's Argentina adjusted to that tactic by using Maradona as a decoy and thus also taking Matthaus out of the action. The results? Maradona, who had been dominant for the whole World Cup, hardly touched the ball. But Germany also missed Matthaus creative contributions.
Very astute analysis asf...as usual.

Its one of those hindsight kind of things, where one could say that Beckenbauer miscalculated; however, it may have indeed been his best chance at winning, and on another day it may have payed off. It was a classic matchup for sure.

I remember reading with fascination an article in FranceFootball around '83 in which Mattaus talked about the relative difficulties in man marking Maradona, Zico and Platini. I don't remember a word of it to share with you, but it points out that Lothar was tested by, and tested, the best of his era.

[comme]

Given that Beckenbauer was himself used in a similar fashion against Bobby Charlton in the 1966 WC final, it seems strange he so used his own midfield maestro.

We considered Mattheus as well for our midfield although we did consider having him alongside another d-mid.

Mattheus was a quality player but i really feel that he is someone who retired too late, after 94 he was well past his best and at Libero he was something of an embarrassment.

In 90 as with the whole W. German team he started very well but faded as the tournament progressed.

I would also dispute that he and rijkaard are the best ever, we are saving that for Friday. Watch out for a surprise pick.

Still, a great pick and a superb addition to any team.

[kopiteinkc]

Watch out for a surprise pick.

I think I know who that might be! If it is who I think it is, I will applaud from here.

Any teams who want another mind to bounce ideas off, let me know.

[argentine soccer fan]

I would also dispute that he and rijkaard are the best ever, we are saving that for Friday. Watch out for a surprise pick.



A surprise pick? You must be going back in time. I'm looking forward to seeing who it is you have in mind.

[tpmazembe]

comme, Team E's suprise pick better be a good one...or be prepared for the ribbing.

Given the relatively new arrival of the true defensive mid (late 70s/early 80's), I'm finding it hard to fathom who was better than Rikjaard or Mattaus. I can think of one guy who could be an equal (whose name ends in "s"), but clearly better.....

I too am looking forward to being surprised.

[comme]

Don't worry he's good enough, he's a player we want but that probably few thought of. We could maybe wait and take him later, but when you're getting the best, why wait?

And no his name doesn't end in 's' and he's not from that era.

[Real Ray]

Sorry about the delay, but here is our pick:


http://www.abc.net.au/worldcup2002/img/20020425_zico.jpg
Zico (Artur Antunes Coimbra), Brazil (born 1953):
Teams: Flamengo, Udinese, Sumimoto, Kashima Antlers

Voted South American Footballer of the Year in 1977, `81 and `82

Titles: Campeão Carioca (1972, 1974, 1978, 1979, 1981 and 1986)

Libertadores (1981)

Intercontinental cup (1981)

Although viewed by many as having a tragic-heroic career, there can be little doubt that the man dubbed, “The White Pele” was one of football's all-time great players; a player who's place one the past century’s top 100 list is with little doubt-who some in Brasil still consider the greatest Brasilian player since Pele.

An attacking midfielder with pace, breathtaking skill and a deadly free-kick, Zico was a player could find the net: over 650 goals with Brazilian club side Flamengo; 66 goal in 86 appearances with Brasil. With a sublime pass off a breathtaking turn, a deadly free kick, or an acrobatic bicycle kick, Zico was one of those rare players who could change the course of a match in a heartbeat.

This skill would be on display most brilliantly at the 1982 World Cup in Spain. Along with Zico were Socrates, Falcoa and Cerezo-a musketeering midfield that could create goals seemingly out of nothing with brilliant passing and dead-on shooting. Although this Brasil would not win it all, the brilliance of Zico was there to see on the grandest of stages.

Four years later Brasil and Zico's World Cup campaign ended in tears. Zico, injured, had played little part in Brazil's progress to the quarterfinals. But coming on as a sub against France in the quarterfinal, Zico opened up the match with his first touch, setting up a Brasil penalty. Zico just barely into the match, walked up to the spot and took the penalty, only to stare in disbelief as Bats knocked it down. His status as a tragic-hero in the Brasil shirt confirmed. France would knock Brasil out later in a thrilling penalty shootout.

In 1983, after more than 500 goals for Flamengo, Zico moved to Italian club Udinese, where he was to enjoy a successful two years before returning to Rio in 1985.

After more than 1,000 games at senior level Zico signed up for duty in the newly launched Japanese J-League, scoring 79 goals in 85 games before finally retiring in 1994. In 2000 the IFFH(a writers /player poll) ranked Zico at no. 7 all-time South American player in the century list; no. 14 among all players.

No matter where you rank him, there is little doubt: on the short list of great players in the history of football, you will find the name Zico

[Real Ray]

Our manager Señor Herrera would like add his thoughts:
http://www.sevillacf.com/imagenes/entrenadores/HelenioHerrera.jpg
Cryuff con Zico- es como un laboratorio con Einstein y Oppenheimer. Y mira: basta ya con con charla de cantenaccio! :p

[tpmazembe]

Sorry about the delay, but here is our pick:


http://www.abc.net.au/worldcup2002/img/20020425_zico.jpg
Zico (Artur Antunes Coimbra), Brazil (born 1953):
Great pick.

You forgot to add 4 Brasileiros ('80,'82','83,'87), an accomplishment given the even level of talent in that championship. In a club that has seen the likes of Leonidas, Dida (not that one), Romario, Zizinho,etc...he is the most revered.

He is often accused of not being a winner for not having won a WC. He was not fully fit for either 1978 nor 1986, and in total lost exactly 1 WC game in full-time (the classic against Italy in 1982).

Easily one of the most skilled and creative 10's in history. His tandem with Cryuff would be special.

[comme]

Team E-comme (captain), Merengue, Excape Goat, lanman

Round 5(week 5)

Pick 5 (Overall pick 25)

Josef Bozsik

Nation Hungary

Career span 1940s,50s,60s

Clubs Honved

Major honours 1952 Olympic Champion, 1954 World Cup finalist, Hungarian titles 5+

International caps 101 goals 11

Every orchestra needs a conductor, and for the Magical Magyars that man was Jozsef Bozsik, the first player we today would regard as a true midfielder.
Up to the late 1940's, with the W-M formation prevelant the job of the half-backs was to stop the opposition playing and simply get the ball to their own inside forwards who could do the real damage. Bozsik changed all of this - as accomplished a defender as there was he also possessed the creativity and vision to rival the finest inside forward. With Hungary playing an almost unheard of back four along with 5 attackers, Bozsik would normally find himself up against two inside forwards, and he would usually be the most dominant and influential player on the pitch - Hungary's games were played at Bozsik's pace and were subject to his direction. With the movement up front, his pinpoint passing exploited any gaps - his favourite pass being a long cross-field pass to his childhood friend Puskas.
As a 5 year old, he took 3 year old neighbour Puskas under his wing, and until the 1956 revolution they were virtually inseperable - signing as youth players together, graduating first to the Honved first team and subsequently the Hungarian national side whilst also running a local shop (remember these are amateur players).
After the revolution, Puskas sought refuge in the West whereas Bozsik returned home to succeed his great friend as captain of club and country. With the national team now missing three world class attackers and with no suitable replacements forthcoming, Bozsik's football suffered. Forced to carry a team which was a shadow of its former self, his reputation faded, and whereas Puskas became the darling of Madrid, Bozsik passed from international memory.
He would later manage the Hungarian national side, but sadly passed away in 1978, like his playing abilities, well before his time. His name lives on, however, as Honved now play in a stadium named after him.
Bozsik was one of the few players to redefine a position - as graceful as he was powerful he will be the fulcrum of our team, just as he was for one of the greatest teams ever to take the field.