Running on empty [r]

[Dark Savante]

Our squad is gassed. It's going to take a whole summer for some of these guys to get their legs back.

One of the key elements to our game last season was the hard running and pressing of these players:

Rooney
Ronaldo (forward direction)
Park
Evra
Hargreaves
Fletcher
Tevez
& occasionally, Anderson

That's 8 players.. 8 who shared the load and forced the opposition into mistakes.

We questioned Hargreaves' actual ability and technical level, but never ever his running when he played.

Park and Evra made the opposing right-flankers want to not run the channel; between the two of them there was energy enough for 3 men.

Tevez, Rooney and Ronaldo in unison combined movement, forcefulness and direction into an awe-inspiring attack and counter-attacking unit. Between them they stretched and exhausted many a backline we faced.

Anderson and Fletcher had numerous games where they forced their opposing number in midfield to make mistake after mistake, especially in key games.

Even then, even last season we were wary of even harder running and pressing teams, knowing full well that the raw power and force of Chelsea would cause us problems over the 90.

This season a number of those players are not hitting the heights that they did. It's fair to say only Rooney and Fletcher are playing above the level they had last season.

The symbiote of Evra and Park is distinctly absent during this run-in, and quite frankly, we need them back. What was our strongest defensive flank - the strongest defensive flank in the game - has now become a vulnerability that will soon be exploited if something isn't done to address the huge dip in performance and energy level seen there.

Ronaldo is tired. He has looked tired for a while. Playing as a winger, but also being expected to score the lion's share of our goals is taking its toll on him. In his free-role from last season he could completely disinvolve himself for minutes at a time, taking breathers knowing that the system in place allowed him to do so. Now? He has to get himself back to his flank ASAP and be ready to re-run the ball back up the field over and over again, after what is almost sure to have been one lung-busting run or another. Again, it takes its toll. He looked much better playing the role given in the Porto game where he could stand still, take a breather and still be of use to the team as he contested headers and/or lay offs for others.

Over the last few weeks we've seen the rest of the '4' play epic, games. Epic because of the intensity and ferocity of the running and pressing - the quality has been dire, but that's not the point. The fact they've all shown they can run and press, and run, and press for 90 minutes straight is more than food-for-thought for our manager, I am certain.

He knows we are flagging, he mentioned it again after today's game, murmurs of it have been mentioned by the press, and I'm sure managers of sides we're due to face know it as well. If you can run for the full 90, you are going to get your chances against us, without question. Watching Pompey today, I thought to myself: 'thank feck they're not choc-a-block with all the athletes 'Arry so loved to bring along.' if they were, I don't think we'd have won through the sheer running and strain to track that our players would have to do.

The Arsenal games are a big concern. We badly need to rest our players to match them for running.. the thread I made before about taking a gamble is still very much at the forefront of my mind. The likes of Fabio, Rafael, Macheda and anyone else who offers us energy and running are going to have to be utilised during this run-in, I feel.

I don't know what we're going to do about Patrice and Ji, but that needs fixing..

Fletch, Wayne and Anderson look like they're going to be key in our energy stakes. The other 5 from the 8 mentioned, look like they're running on fumes.

Neither the league or the CL are going to be anything but a battle for us to claim.

The manager has a huge job on his hands to juggle so many tired players effectively.

[Karloski]

I'm not disputing the fact that many of our main players are clearly tired. It's visable for all to see. Why is it though that Chelsea continue to play their best players in all competitions (something they seemed to do in the 2 previous seasons also) and yet look fresher and hungrier than we do? I know Essien's just back from injury, and Drogba's had less games, but even so we've rotated the squad (except for the defence) a lot more this season than they have. So the extra games we've played should'nt be so apparent.

Is it possible our fitness regime has been poorer this season?

[Dark Savante]

I'm not disputing the fact that many of our main players are clearly tired. It's visable for all to see. Why is it though that Chelsea continue to play their best players in all competitions (something they seemed to do in the 2 previous seasons also) and yet look fresher and hungrier than we do? I know Essien's just back from injury, and Drogba's had less games, but even so we've rotated the squad (except for the defence) a lot more this season than they have. So the extra games we've played should'nt be so apparent.

Is it possible our fitness regime has been poorer this season?

I'd say that their football is a lot less draining. They play a much more text-book style than us: crosses, knock-downs, lay offs, long-balls for Drogba to cause trouble from.

They also have a better midfield. If you're midfield soaks up all the pressure, the rest of the team can concentrate on their jobs and are afforded more breathers.

They play on a smaller home pitch as well. Over a season OT is going to take more of a toll than SB.

Lastly, Lampard, who is key to how they play, is an athletic specimen in terms of fitness and injury-rate. None of our midfielders can match him for that. He's very Bobby Charlton-esque with his fitness and consistency, actually. His running and work-rate are tremendous.

[lynne]

I'd say that their football is a lot less draining. They play a much more text-book style than us: crosses, knock-downs, lay offs, long-balls for Drogba to cause trouble from.

They also have a better midfield. If you're midfield soaks up all the pressure, the rest of the team can concentrate on their jobs and are afforded more breathers.

They play on a smaller home pitch as well. Over a season OT is going to take more of a toll than SB.

Lastly, Lampard, who is key to how they play, is an athletic specimen in terms of fitness and injury-rate. None of our midfielders can match him for that. He's very Bobby Charlton-esque with his fitness and consistency, actually. His running and work-rate are tremendous.

I wonder if there is a comparison for the amount that Utd runs with there "every player switching position, and the fwds tracking back" vs. the way Chelsea plays, where each player just plays the position he's assigned. 'Cause this really looks like a problem.

And it happens every year! Ronaldo has played every game except the one last weekend. Rooney plays until he injures something.

[Karloski]

They also have a better midfield. If you're midfield soaks up all the pressure, the rest of the team can concentrate on their jobs and are afforded more breathers.

Neither the league or the CL are going to be anything but a battle for us to claim.

On those points, and I know I shouldn't look to far forward. If we do get passed Arsenal in the CL and we meet Barca. It could be embarrassing on the possession front. The last 2 times I've watched them they've breezed to a 4-0 victory, and Xavi and Iniesta vs our tired midfield could be painful to watch.

[Simply Red]

I don't know what we're going to do about Patrice and Ji, but that needs fixing..

Isn´t that the "crew" of Tevez? They might all be depressed and unsettled about him being unhappy and wanting to leave.

Fletch, Wayne and Anderson look like they're going to be key in our energy stakes. The other 5 from the 8 mentioned, look like they're running on fumes.


Some one posted a statistic on the caf a week or so ago, that Rio, Rooney and Ronaldo had played about 160 games the last 3 seasons (cannot remember the numbers precisely and don´t have the time to check..), while the rest of our regular starters had played about 130 games in the last 3 seasons.

Rio, Ronaldo and Rooney´s numbers are crazy. And still we can say that Rooney is going to be a key in our energy stakes. What is this guy made of?

[Amdrag]

We wouldn't be this tired if Sir Alex would mix and match. When one kid plays they don't all have too. Same for the core 16 of the squad.

[Iggles]

Park and Evra made the opposing right-flankers want to not run the channel; between the two of them there was energy enough for 3 men.

Tevez, Rooney and Ronaldo in unison combined movement, forcefulness and direction into an awe-inspiring attack and counter-attacking unit. Between them they stretched and exhausted many a backline we faced.

The symbiote of Evra and Park is distinctly absent during this run-in, and quite frankly, we need them back. What was our strongest defensive flank - the strongest defensive flank in the game - has now become a vulnerability that will soon be exploited if something isn't done to address the huge dip in performance and energy level seen there.

I don't know what we're going to do about Patrice and Ji, but that needs fixing..


Isn´t that the "crew" of Tevez? They might all be depressed and unsettled about him being unhappy and wanting to leave.


Interesting observation. We tend to forget that the players are human and what happens to them and their friends affect them in ways similar to the way they'd affect us. One of the many reasons I find O'Shea and Fletcher so valuable is they seem to always put the team first and not let much affect them.

Evra's and Park's dip might be related to our treatment of Tevez.

[johno]

You raise a good point about Ronaldo's role this year. He's back to being an outlet which is fine, but because our midfield lacks cohesiveness at times, he'll end up having to move the ball 20+ yds in one go as many as 8 times in one half. When someone else brings it up, he's sprinting along them. God forbid there's a counter, he's sprinting again. I'd love to see his distance covered compared to other attackers this season, especially those thought to be more hardworking.

[MANUTDGAL]

Never underestimate the heart of a champion!!!!!

[SyedZada]

I think we underused our kids this season, compare how much Rafael is used to Fabio (injured and all that I know), we also have given our competition too important, the Carling Cup and FA cup runs should have been a chance for the youngsters rather than trying to win all, this is the 3rd high octane season we are having, there have to be tiredness.

[Dark Savante]

25 Apr, 17:30 Manchester United v Tottenham Hotspur Premier League
29 Apr, 19:45 Manchester United v Arsenal Champions League
May
3 May, 16:00 Middlesbrough v Manchester United Premier League
5 May, 19:45 Arsenal v Manchester United Champions League
10 May, 13:30 Manchester United v Manchester City Premier League

This is what concerns me.

Spurs are always up for an open game against us. We usually win, but that generally comes down to matching their running and then out-playing them or tiring them out through our passing until they fizzle out. With our 2nd half flagging, it's going to be a very, very difficult ask.

We then play Arsenal in what will be the highest octane games of the season. Having watched them over the last few weeks, the one thing they will have is oodles of energy. The challenge here is to match their running throughout the game and then have the legs to match their invariable 2nd-wind past 75 minutes. I'm concerned we'll concede late in this game because of our energy levels.

Next comes Middlesbrough, the biggest bunch of game-raising ********** that there is. They may well be going down, they may well lose the majority of their remaining games, but you can bet your savings they'll play as if their families have been tied to a bomb and this game will save them.

After what will probably be an injury-laden game at the Riverside, we go to Ashburton Grove for the 2nd leg against Arsenal. No matter the result in the first leg, this one is going to be another lung-buster. If there's one thing to guarantee it is that this game will be played at a ferocious pace - we will be embroiled in a similar madness to what we've seen the others go through with the 4-4 nonsense and so on. The amount of running needed in that game would be tiring in October let alone May of an exhausting campaign.

Finally, there's Man City, who will be well up for this game and ready to pounce on tired and drained players. If our players appreciate the occasion and what it means to get revenge on the Bitters, this will be another furious game win, lose or draw.

It doesn't take a genius to understand that this run of games will essentially decide the league. The CL is its own beast, but the fallout from the energy expended and the rest needed to compete head-on in it against another English side will be heeded and respected.

It would be a spectacular achievement to win the league and qualify for the final of the CL with our energy levels. Spectacular.

Fergie made absolutely the right decision to take the risk in the FA Cup.

[Dark Savante]

I wonder if there is a comparison for the amount that Utd runs with there "every player switching position, and the fwds tracking back" vs. the way Chelsea plays, where each player just plays the position he's assigned. 'Cause this really looks like a problem.

And it happens every year! Ronaldo has played every game except the one last weekend. Rooney plays until he injures something.
What we aren't good at this season is killing games that should be won. Even yesterday we saw a blueprint to how we've been for most of the season trying to get the goal that makes us comfortable.

Our 1-0's, even when going through that amazing streak, always seemed uncomfortable and draining on the midfield. Cumulatively, not killing off games and having to work way into the 80's of a 90 minute game is always going to be demanding.

Chelsea haven't had the best of seasons, but have settled down a bit and are certainly better and squeezing the life out of the oppo during a game. They press in unison, which shares the energy-load.

Our game is suited to getting goals. Killing off the oppo with the fear of being nailed on the counter as they pursue an equalizer after going behind by 1, or more importantly 2 goals. We can then rest and pick them off in an orderly fashion. If you're not scoring the second goal, however, then this tactic is almost redundant.

Barcelona do what we did last season in dynamic fashion. Once they get the first, they press higher and higher up the pitch exploiting the need for the oppo to get forward and equalize. When they score the second they can switch to a lower-paced pass and retention style whilst picking and chosing when and where to go after the third, fourth or fifth goal.

On those points, and I know I shouldn't look to far forward. If we do get passed Arsenal in the CL and we meet Barca. It could be embarrassing on the possession front. The last 2 times I've watched them they've breezed to a 4-0 victory, and Xavi and Iniesta vs our tired midfield could be painful to watch.
Well, that's two huge ifs! First us beating Arsenal and then Barca beating Chelsea ;)

I wouldn't worry about a one-off game with time to rest and prepare. I think that's one game where our players wouldn't be overrun as they could give it everything they had in the tank and not have to worry about another game 3 or 4 days later.

Isn´t that the "crew" of Tevez? They might all be depressed and unsettled about him being unhappy and wanting to leave.



Some one posted a statistic on the caf a week or so ago, that Rio, Rooney and Ronaldo had played about 160 games the last 3 seasons (cannot remember the numbers precisely and don´t have the time to check..), while the rest of our regular starters had played about 130 games in the last 3 seasons.

Rio, Ronaldo and Rooney´s numbers are crazy. And still we can say that Rooney is going to be a key in our energy stakes. What is this guy made of?

Interesting observation. We tend to forget that the players are human and what happens to them and their friends affect them in ways similar to the way they'd affect us. One of the many reasons I find O'Shea and Fletcher so valuable is they seem to always put the team first and not let much affect them.

Evra's and Park's dip might be related to our treatment of Tevez.
re. Tevez & co. I would hope that's not the case! Very unprofessional of them if so! I hope it's just a strange coincidence, but the three of them were important players in our success last season and we really need them to deliver again if we're to win either of the two competitions we're playing in.

re. Ronaldo, Rooney and Rio.

Ronaldo, like Lampard is an athletic specimen who is rarely injured, but even then, he is showing massive signs of cumulative fatigue now and after 3yrs of such draining football, it's only logical he would. If he's here next season his PT will have to be managed much better than it has been this season.

Rio, plays in a position that means he won't or shouldn't be as tired as a midfielder or hard-running attacker. His injuries are part of his make-up, I think. His back problem will never go away and he says he's had it for years now, but that it's getting worse. His groin, seems similar to Giggsy and his hamstrings when he was going all out bombing up down the wing. I guess resting when anything flares up helps, but with any sudden twist or turn, Rio can go down with a tear or spasm, so it's always a risk no matter how few games he has played during a season.

Rooney, is injured a lot. I think he is fresher than the others because of this.

You raise a good point about Ronaldo's role this year. He's back to being an outlet which is fine, but because our midfield lacks cohesiveness at times, he'll end up having to move the ball 20+ yds in one go as many as 8 times in one half. When someone else brings it up, he's sprinting along them. God forbid there's a counter, he's sprinting again. I'd love to see his distance covered compared to other attackers this season, especially those thought to be more hardworking.
The people getting on his back for 'not caring' appear more and more dense as the season gets harder. He runs mile after mile and often for little reward, but that is not noted, him tracking back is all that is considered, but in the forward direction no player here matching him for sprints, movement and studiousness to the task. That he isn't commended for that simply blows my mind, or highlights the ignorance of many a viewer of this game.

I think we underused our kids this season, compare how much Rafael is used to Fabio (injured and all that I know), we also have given our competition too important, the Carling Cup and FA cup runs should have been a chance for the youngsters rather than trying to win all, this is the 3rd high octane season we are having, there have to be tiredness.

We haven't really played full strength in the FA Cup at all.. have a look at our goal-scorers in the competition.. it's pretty consistent.

[SyedZada]

We haven't really played full strength in the FA Cup at all.. have a look at our goal-scorers in the competition.. it's pretty consistent.
Still think we could have used Nani and Gibson more this season.

[andrew neave]

Good Jackson Browne song

But as long as Fergie uses Fletcher as an example or a Yard stick we should get by,, all it needs is another draw from Liverpool

Fletcher played very well today his tackling was awesome.

[Simply Red]

25 Apr, 17:30 Manchester United v Tottenham Hotspur Premier League
29 Apr, 19:45 Manchester United v Arsenal Champions League
May
3 May, 16:00 Middlesbrough v Manchester United Premier League
5 May, 19:45 Arsenal v Manchester United Champions League
10 May, 13:30 Manchester United v Manchester City Premier League

This is what concerns me.


This has been on my mind for weeks, and was my main reason for not questioning SAF on the team-selection for the FA-cup.

A couple of positives for the upcoming games: Brown is reported to maybe be available as soon as Spurs. That means that he in any case should be available for Middlesbrough and City. Hard to tell if he is ready for the games against Arsenal tempovice and I leave that for SAF to decide. Locking down that right side will give Ronaldo some breathers.

Anderson is looking lively and will give us the chance to rest Carrick in the Middlesbrough and City games if needed. Carrick has already gotten a big rest the last two games and should be fresher than he has been for a while. I especially hope he is ready for the Arsenal games and against City.

Fletcher will be needed to do a big job in these games. I would definitly want him for the Arsenal games, and I guess his fitness decides which other ones he could start.

Giggs has been rotated well all year and should be fine if he only plays one game per week. That should also be possible with him rotating with Scholes and Park.

I think the Middlesbrough game needs be gambled to a certain extent as the second Arsenal game is going to need a lot of energy. I wouldn´t gamble as much as in the FA-cup but I think Gibson could be up for this game. It is impossible to guess how SAF will plan for this run though. There will be a need for heavy rotating between and during games, but we have Giggs, Scholes, Carrick, Anderson, Fletcher and Gibson to rotate in the middle. That is a fair amout of bodies.

If this is not squeeky bum time, I don´t know what is. Just thinking about Liverpool being able to leapfrog us to make the statistic 17-19 make me sick.

[Charleysurf]

I'd agree with Simply Red that Gibson needs to be used at some point. He gave a Fletcher-type performance in the semi-final. We should make use of that energy in one or two of the league games.

[impalemeplz]

Ronaldo is tired. He has looked tired for a while. Playing as a winger, but also being expected to score the lion's share of our goals is taking its toll on him. In his free-role from last season he could completely disinvolve himself for minutes at a time, taking breathers knowing that the system in place allowed him to do so. Now? He has to get himself back to his flank ASAP and be ready to re-run the ball back up the field over and over again, after what is almost sure to have been one lung-busting run or another. Again, it takes its toll. He looked much better playing the role given in the Porto game where he could stand still, take a breather and still be of use to the team as he contested headers and/or lay offs for others.



this is the key here(apart from benching berbatov). i dont think ronaldo will ever be as effective playing a pires or even giggs style. i think he is basically this generations version of rivaldo. the closest thing anyways. he needs a free role so he is always readily available to kill the opposition on the counter. let rooney and tevez do the attacking dogwork. everything else will fall into place.

[yikchi]

I'd agree with Simply Red that Gibson needs to be used at some point. He gave a Fletcher-type performance in the semi-final. We should make use of that energy in one or two of the league games.
Yes. Agree with using Gibson vs. Boro. We need a big lad out there to put in a few hard tackles vs. those dirty bastards. I like to see Brown at RB for that purpose too.

[Father Ted]

We've play 57 games so far this season.

List of appearances this season: Starts(Sub)
Vidic 44(3)
van der Sar 42
Ronaldo 41(5)
Ferdinand 39
Evra 37(3)
O'Shea 36(10)
Rooney 32(9)
Berbatov 32(4)
Tevez 31(13)
Carrick 31(6)
Fletcher 31(5)
Park 27(7)
Anderson 25(8)
Giggs 24(16)
Evans 25(4)
Neville 23(3)
Nani 22(6)
Scholes 21(9)
Rafael 19(4)
Gibson 8(5)
Foster 8
Welbeck 7(5)
Brown 6(6)
Kuszczak 6(1)
Possebon 3(4)
Hargreaves 2(1)
Fabio 2
Macheda 1(2)
Campbell 1(1)
Amos 1
Eckersley 0(3)
Manucho 0(3)
Tosic 0(2)
Chester 0(1)