Non-PK call in COL-SJ 8/24 match.

[Greywacke]

My memory of the incident is a little fuzzy, but hopefully one of you can help me out.

I think the incident occurred in the 2nd half, though I could be wrong. Valderamma carries the ball just into penalty area and gets both this legs taken out buy Eddie Robinson (pretty sure it was him, though it could have been Corrales) on a very poor tackle. To me, it was clear that the infraction took place IN the penalty area.

Subsequently, the ball trickles just out of the penalty area towards another Rapids player. During said trickling, I'm pretty sure referee Richard Heron, who was right on top of the play, signaled to play the advantage with an arm motion of some kind, though I suppose he could have been gesturing for Valderamma to get up from a "clean" tackle.

So then, the Rapids player takes control of the ball just outside the area, and then almost immediately gets taken out by another bad tackle by Robinson/Corrales just outside the area. Heron immediately blows the whistle and awards a DFK to the Rapids just outside the area at the location of the 2nd foul.

So, I guess I have to interpret this ruling as though Heron thought the foul (which replays show clearly and I have a hard time believing Heron didn't see b/c he was 5 yards away) on Valderamma was a clean play and/or a dive. Because if he instead played the advantage on the 1st foul, shouldn't a PK have been awarded to COL after the Rapids loss of possession b/c of the 2nd foul, b/c the 1st foul occurred in the penalty area? Or is it that the 2nd foul superceeds the 1st foul when advantage is played? Or perhaps Heron thought too much time had passed between fouls to go back to the first one? I thought the 2nd committed very soon after the first other (2-3 seconds, well within the usual time I've seen refs go back to an original foul if the advantage didn't materialize), as Robinson seemed like a cyborg on attack mode.

Anyone else see this play and can help me understand what happened and why it was ruled as such?

[IASocFan]

I vaguely recall the incident. I think that the defender got mostly ball, and Heron decided that there was no foul. Anyone who remembers the incident better or has a tape, feel free to correct me.

[RCadieux]

I was watching that game. It was Robinson on both tackles. I thought he got mostly ball, and ball first, on the first tackle. The second tackle was pretty ugly, no ball, probably should have been a yellow.

I think I remember shaking my head because Ty Keough was blathering that the first tackle was a foul.

[Greywacke]

Originally posted by RCadieux
I think I remember shaking my head because Ty Keough was blathering that the first tackle was a foul.

Yikes, I guess that means Ty and I actually agree on this one.

Plus, Valderamma gave Herron the evil eye after the 2nd foul was called, which Rob and Ty really harped on. I know Carlos is known for his gamesmanship, but I've never really known him to be a diver (can't gain enough velocity to make it look good).

But I guess that's probably what happened, Herron didn't buy the call on Valderamma, signaled at him to "get up" instead of the advantage call, and then called the subsequent foul on Robinson.

To the experienced refs here, just for the sake of arguement, say Herron believed that Robinson DID foul Valderamma in the box...do you play the advantage if post-foul the ball is trickling back to a Rapids player or do you whistle the PK immediately? If no immediate PK call, when you whistle Robinson for the 2nd foul, do you award DFK at the spot of the second foul or go back to the first foul and award PK?

[billf]

Originally posted by Greywacke


Yikes, I guess that means Ty and I actually agree on this one.

Plus, Valderamma gave Herron the evil eye after the 2nd foul was called, which Rob and Ty really harped on. It know Carlos in known for his gamesmanship, but I've never really known him to be a diver (can't gain enough velocity to make it look good).

But I guess that's probably what happened, Herron didn't buy the call on Valderamma, signaled at him to "get up" instead of the advantage call, and then called the subsequent foul on Robinson.

To the experienced refs here, just for the sake of arguement, say Herron believed that Robinson DID foul Valderamma in the box...do you play the advantage if post-foul the ball is trickling back to a Rapids player or do you whistle the PK immediately? If no immediate PK call, when you whistle Robinson for the 2nd foul, do you award DFK at the spot of the second foul or go back to the first foul and award PK?

You can play advantage in this situation, but if the advantage does not work out, then you should award the PK right away. In other words, if the ball is moving towards the Rapid player and it becomes obvious that he is not going to get a good shot off, then blow the whistle and point to the spot. However, since a PK is almost a sure goal, you will likely see most referees award the PK right away if they see a play as a foul.

Now this might be controversial, but I remember reading in the Evans and Bellion book that you could go back and award the pk if you play advantage, the ball rolls to an attacker, and the attacker misses the goal. I'm talking about a bang bang play on this btw. What do those wiser than I say about this one?

[Dave216J]

Originally posted by billf


Now this might be controversial, but I remember reading in the Evans and Bellion book that you could go back and award the pk if you play advantage, the ball rolls to an attacker, and the attacker misses the goal. I'm talking about a bang bang play on this btw. What do those wiser than I say about this one?

I remember about 3 years ago, in a Champions League quarter-final between Barcelona and Chelsea, Kluivert was tackled for a PK in the box, never really fell though he lost his balance, and immediately scored. The ref brought it back for a penalty to be taken, which Rivaldo clanked off the post, ensuring that extra time was played before Barcelona ended up winning. Perhaps he didn't anticipate the advantage, but I was surprised that the goal was disallowed for a PK on the same player--nobody stopped playing until well after the whole play was finished.

[Jasonma]

I thought it was a foul on both plays too. I was amazed that Robinson didn't get a card, considering the force of the two tackles I thought a yellow was a given and a red wasn't out of the question. I noticed that Yallop immediately to Robinson out of the game after that, I wonder if he was concerned about a possible make-up call the next time Robinson committed a hard foul...

[IASocFan]

Originally posted by Dave216J


I remember about 3 years ago, in a Champions League quarter-final between Barcelona and Chelsea, Kluivert was tackled for a PK in the box, never really fell though he lost his balance, and immediately scored. The ref brought it back for a penalty to be taken, which Rivaldo clanked off the post, ensuring that extra time was played before Barcelona ended up winning. Perhaps he didn't anticipate the advantage, but I was surprised that the goal was disallowed for a PK on the same player--nobody stopped playing until well after the whole play was finished.

The goal was probably disallowed because the ref had blown the whistle before the shot. Once the whistle is blown, you can't play advantage.