Not Acceptable [R]

[Ethereal]

For Manchester United, a loss to Porto in the Champions's League is simply unacceptable. When this season started, I had high expectations of winning it this year, but instead we're knocked out by a team we would usually dispose of without any problem.

I hate to say it, but we're not the team we have been for the last six or seven years, and we're going to need some big changes to turn things around again.

Mistake #1 - Selling Beckham. I still can't believe it and refuse to believe we've gained any positives from the sale of one of our greatest and most influential players to our main European rivals.

Mistake #2 - Not buy well in the Summer. Of the signings we made, I only like Ronaldo and Howard. Djemba-Djemba, Bellion and Kleberson are not good enough to play for Manchester United, and they never will be.

We are the biggest club in the world (despite Madrid's attempts to claim otherwise in the last few years) and it's about time we started acting like it.

Losing Ronaldinho to Barcelona should never have happened, nor should the loss of Robben to Chelsea (Robben being a player that was perfect for United and very much our "style").

I don't believe we should get rid of Ferguson (although he HAS been to blame for much of what has gone wrong this year). We need to make some better signings and rebuild the team, though. Ronaldo is a fantastic player for an eighteen-year old, and he will eventually become an indispensible first-team player... Howard has every chance of being our #1 for the next ten years if he keeps improving - the other new signings are not Manchester United quality.

We NEED to get van der Vaart, I don't care if he supports Barcelona and they are favourites to land him - outbid them, offer him twice as much, whatever it takes. We should not be losing out on players to Barcelona. Like Robben, van der Vaart has "Manchester United" all over him. He's the type of player I immediately associate with United and we should pay whatever it takes to bring him here.

We desperately need a good center-back to play alongside Rio (when he returns), and I'd still make a big-money purchase up front as I'm not -entirely- convinced Saha is the solution.

Sorry for the rant, but I'm growing increasingly frustrated with it all, and I don't think we should have to settle for what we're being given right now. We have high standards, and lowering those standards is a dangerous thing to do.

[Motterman]

I didn't fancy our chances of going on to win the Champions League this year after we lost out on Ronaldinho. It totally blew our "plan of attack" after selling Beckham. We were then forced to buy some younger players with potential and, so far, Howard is the only current first choice player. Ronaldo has seen plenty of playing time, as well as Saha since we bought him in January. However; it's going to take time to see how the younger players we've bought so far, as well as the youngsters we have in our reserves and youth teamers are going to pan out. I think a new "stud" centre back partner for Rio and cover for Keane (should Klebs, Fletcher, Djemba-Djemba or Miller not develop) should be priorities, as well as a player to be groomed for Giggs' eventual departure, now that we've now lost out of Robben. It could be a blessing in diguise. If we end up with Van Der Vaart, would you still miss Robben all that much? There is plenty of talent out there, and even Roman can't buy EVERYBODY. Arsenal have proved you can still achieve success without breaking the bank. Our run of greatness the last decade didn't start out by buying 12 players in the off-season....

[Bizzo]

I think the 'R' is somewhat meaningless when the title of the thread is Not Acceptable.

There's no doubt that after the high standards set in the last decade that United has slipped somewhat this year. However as United fans we have no more right to success than any other club. Our consecutive streak of making the quarterfinals is phenomenal especially considering that the top 3 or 4 teams in Spain, Italy & England are in the competition. Fans of Real, Barca, Juve, Milan, Inter, Arsenal, Liverpool, Bayern & others all expect to win in Europe. Obviously most will be disappointed every year. The thrills that United have provided over the past decade are more than what most fans get in a lifetime. I guess my main point is that I'm as disappointed as anybody that United will likely fall short in every competition this year, but I think the only thing that is unacceptable is the attitude of some of the supporters. It reinforces the stereotypes of what a United fan is.

[bigtoga]

Fire SAF!!!!

MAGNIER & MCMANUS should be co-managers

Change the kit to blue and yellow.



























Whew!!!! I'm sorry - don't know where that came from. I think the forum put it there just because of a logic overload in this post. This should be angry, pudgy men yelling insane things about United and I guess the forum decided to even things out a bit.

Carry on.

[lond2345]

Originally posted by Ethereal

Losing Ronaldinho to Barcelona should never have happened, nor should the loss of Robben to Chelsea (Robben being a player that was perfect for United and very much our "style").

Forget Robben, the big mistake Sir Alex made was not getting Ronaldinho the soon to be best player in the world.

Robben might be a highly rated young talent, but Ronaldinho is special, he can change a game all by himself. A rare trait such of players like Maradona and Pele.

[fatmaradona]

Bring back Jaap Stam!

[Acronym]

fck beckham and veron...

apparently ballack is on the cards. But what can ya do when you have a completely wanK ref like that russian tosser???

[Scouse]

Originally posted by lond2345
...but Ronaldinho is special, he can change a game all by himself. A rare trait such of players like Maradona and Pele. sounds like you just described Mr. Beckham.

[johno]

I think that Ethereal is silly to say that Kleberson will never develop into a good player... Kleberson is a good player, when he played as AMC in Scholes' absence he was phenomenal and a real work horse, not only creative but also has a high work rate. Klebs however cannot be paired with Scholes because even though he is a good tackler he cant do it all by himself and essentially pairing him with Scholes will mean that he will have to. Scholes is better than Klebs so obviously he wont play AMC either... this is a man who made Brazil's midfield... Brazil has more left-footed midfielders with braids who can do backflips and kick freekicks than England has football players. Anyone who can make their team is a good player. Klebs needs to be played as a CM not a winger.

Next point... the loss of Becks has hurt because OGS who was to play right half was injured most of the season and Scholes was down quite a bit... Ronaldo has come along nicely and Howard is excellent... Butt will be leaving soon and we have added Saha who will become a very very dangerous player when he and Ruud develop some chemistry...

Our main problem this season has been defence, and its actually not this season, just in the last month or so.... next season we will have A) Rio for the whole season barring injury, B) Brown fit and able to spell other defenders, C) O'Shea with more experience and possibly even another defender.... and D) Howard will have more experience....

We have 2 of the top 3 scorers in the Prem one of the most exciting young players in the game in Ronaldo who is getting better with each game... our depth will be better for next season as well... I think we are very well positioned for next year... offence will not be a problem at all.

[Motterman]

Originally posted by mtkillamanjohno
I think that Ethereal is silly to say that Kleberson will never develop into a good player... Kleberson is a good player, when he played as AMC in Scholes' absence he was phenomenal and a real work horse, not only creative but also has a high work rate. Klebs however cannot be paired with Scholes because even though he is a good tackler he cant do it all by himself and essentially pairing him with Scholes will mean that he will have to. Scholes is better than Klebs so obviously he wont play AMC either... this is a man who made Brazil's midfield... Brazil has more left-footed midfielders with braids who can do backflips and kick freekicks than England has football players. Anyone who can make their team is a good player. Klebs needs to be played as a CM not a winger.

Next point... the loss of Becks has hurt because OGS who was to play right half was injured most of the season and Scholes was down quite a bit... Ronaldo has come along nicely and Howard is excellent... Butt will be leaving soon and we have added Saha who will become a very very dangerous player when he and Ruud develop some chemistry...

Our main problem this season has been defence, and its actually not this season, just in the last month or so.... next season we will have A) Rio for the whole season barring injury, B) Brown fit and able to spell other defenders, C) O'Shea with more experience and possibly even another defender.... and D) Howard will have more experience....

We have 2 of the top 3 scorers in the Prem one of the most exciting young players in the game in Ronaldo who is getting better with each game... our depth will be better for next season as well... I think we are very well positioned for next year... offence will not be a problem at all.

WOOP! WOOP!

There goes my "Logical and Well Thought-Out Post" sensor.

[jonny]

Manchester United want Ricardo Carvolho.

Ricardo is a promising full back ..A young Fernado Couto!

[sch2383]

We have just had a long run of bad luck. We have not played our best, but think back to September when everybody was talking about how great we were doing and how nobody else had a shot. But then Rio missed his piss test, Ole got hurt, Scholes got hurt, Kleberson got hurt, O'Shea's form has dropped off, Silvestre got hurt, Rio got suspended, Gary Neville went crazy, and Timmy misplayed a free kick.

We have just had ******** luck, but how many trophies did we win in 1998?

[Motterman]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/3497492.stm

One defeat - no matter how damaging - will not bring the institution of Manchester United crashing down just yet.

The summer will be crucial for Ferguson. The guard must be changed. Top-class proven talent must be brought in - even if it means battling Abramovich's chequebook.

It may not be the end of an era yet, but it is certainly Ferguson's most testing time.

[bigtoga]

It is precisely "one defeat" I am worried about though. I'm worried that M&M will defeat the ability for SAF and the like to spend this summer...

[billyireland]

Originally posted by Scouse
sounds like you just described Mr. Beckham. No it doesn't.

Post #1500!

[haven]

This year has been terrible. It was always going to be a rebuilding year, after the failed capture of Ronaldinho. Our luck with injuries has been terrible. But in addition:

1. Ferguson's been awful in his team selection and tactics. Players haven't repaid the faith he's shown them. And as soon as he orders the team to play defensively, they concede a goal.

2. The refusal to buy a defender in January was psychotic.

3. The continued ineptitude to compete with smaller clubs (and Chelsea) in the transfer market is terrible.

It's time for Ferguson to leave. Never thought I'd say that.

[Sofabloke]

Originally posted by haven


It's time for Ferguson to leave. Never thought I'd say that.

Hi Haven, I'm with you on your other points, but this goes too far - do you really think that or is this heat of the moment stuff?

He has made mistakes this season though.

IMO guilty of;

- playing players out of position (some mitigation with injuries and suspensions but he has done this plenty of times when he had players available)

- sticking with lone striker 4-5-1 for the last few seasons, after our success in 99 with a 4-4-2 why he felt the need to change to 4-5-1 to progress in Europe is beyond me, doesn't suit the Man U spirit and style of play or the prem

- jobs for the boys (his brother as chief scout, Forlan anybody? Walter as number two, buying players represented by his son)

IMO not guilty of;

Selling Becks for Ronaldinho was the right decision, however I am sure it is the plc who won't allow X to be bought until Y is sold - stoopid! I firmly believe we would have bought a centre-back if we had managed to sell Butt. SAF wanted Robben, the plc cheapskated and Chelski stepped in. The plc need to be 10x smarter when SAF gives them a target - stop dithering it is ultimately costing money in lack of on-the-field progress.

On the plus side;

He will know best what went wrong and how to fix it.

Looks like he is going to revert to 4-4-2, the timing of the switch was either unfortunate or a mistake. I think our midfield had forgotten how to play this way. Look how Gilberto and Vieirra command midfield, hold the ball and provide cover for the backs. Two of Scholes, Butt, Keane used to do that for us.

Howard, Ronaldo are great buys. Saha is highly likely to be given his premiership record. Dj2, Kleberson and Bellion are unknown quantities as they have not been played enough.

Why Bellion doesn't get a game I can understand, that Dj2 and Kleberson are missing out to Fletcher, Butt, P Neville is worrying though ...

In SAF we trust.

[Potomac Red Devil]

You folks who think Kleberson isn't good enough need to repeat the following sentences over and over:

1. Kleberson is first choice in central midfield for Brazil.

2. Read #1 again.

3. Kleberson was hurt early in the year.

4. Kleberson played tremendously when he came back from his injury, filling in admirably for Scholes and adding a touch of class and creativity in midfield.

5. Kleberson has played little since then.

6. When Kleberson has played, he has played out of position (i.e. on the right).

[delmundo]

Originally posted by mtkillamanjohno
offence will not be a problem at all.

the offence should not be a problem IF SAF decides to play it.

[Dark Savante]

Originally posted by Bizzo
but I think the only thing that is unacceptable is the attitude of some of the supporters. It reinforces the stereotypes of what a United fan is.

So true. A bad season and some people want an entire team removed :rolleyes:

A few things:

1) even when the season started our defensive back was poor. Rio and Silvestre were forming an awesome and stable partnership and Howard had an excellent understanding with his CB's. The question always was 'what happens if one of them is injured' BUT people have to be aware to the fact that we can't go in for any old defender, we're looking for top notch CB's and that is why no cover was bought in over the january window. Realistically who do people expect Fergie to have magically bought in? non of the top tier were available and wha would be the point of bringing in a mediocre cb who may or may not gel with the team or its system? If you're going to make a mid season gamble of such greatness it can only be on the elite imo. Buy average and them not doing the job would be just as bad as not buying anyone at all. PEople bandy about names like Thuram, Nesta, Puyol etc but these guys firstly won't come cheap, secondly are not going to come as some mid season stop gap and thirdly in some instance wont come to OT at all, what is Fergie supposed to magic up in such instances?

2) This season was always going to be a transitional one, winning anything but the league would have been a bonus. On this board in the summer alot of us were quite worried about Keane and if he could/would recapture some of his old fitness.. the question marks have been there for some time now and it is only now in this bad spell that alot of problems are coming into fruition. I personally don't think we've had the depth in our squad to cover such 1st team problems for a long time. The step down in class between someone like RVN and Forlan is laughable and if you run down the squaddies man for man with the first teamers it has been that way for a long time..I mean Giggs's cover = Fortune ¬_¬ etc, etc we certainaly need to buy some proven quality in the off season or suffer yet again. IT will make no sense to have some of the kids emerge whilst the veterans diminish because for the most part the kids that have been bought in don't play the same position's as the vets

3) WE have to consider that the board has been a major destructive force since we last spent big they've totally shut up shop and are determined to ruin all of Fergies planned signings. The arrogance of the board destroyed our entire plan for the season as they succeeded in not only p!ssing off PSG to such an extent that they were loathe to sell us Gaucho, but making us a laughing stock in the transfer market. This must be taken into consideration even in this years dealings. I'm sure that at this moment in time even if Fergie wanted to sign up a stellar defender the board would damn sure mess it up somewhere along the line as they did with Robben. Fergie cannot be blamed for the actions of an incompetent board.

4) I'm more concerned with the spirit being shown than the lack of form. When Man U have the 1st teamers back and playing together again for a while the form will improve but will the fire? the new players look complacent and the desire to succeed does not seem apparent amongst most of them. We're renound for buying players who are desperate to succeed in Man U's colours and this mustn't be forgotten. People questioned Gaucho's heart but he shows his passion by destroying the opposition as he is doing now at Barca :(

5) After hopefully purchasing 1 or 2 top class defenders in the summer I think finding a successor to Keane is essential e's been our engine for so long that the boys seem to forget what passion is when he's not on the pitch. There is hope that Miller will be the eventual succesor as KEane was for cpt MArvel and Ince to an extent, but while he develops we need to have a midfield maestro who can inspire like Keane. Some people have mentioned Ballack..he would fit the bill to perfection - if he can be bought in.

6) In a way it is good we are having such a miserable season. There is nothing like failure to reignite the flames for another few years! As long as this season makes us angry and stronger for next I would rather we win nothing then claim, say the FA cup this year and still have the same lacklustre attitude from some of our players as this year. Also some of you guys need to experience the pain of being a true fan, lol take the highs with the lows. It makes success all the more sweeter when you have tasted bitter failure ..just ask Arsenal..

7) I made a thread a while ago called a Ruud state of affairs..In which I lamented the lack of cover RVN had and the potential for burn out he could face this season. Saha has arrived to late, RVN needs a break but now that the team is misfiring it's a hands to the deck and he can't get the break he clearly needs to get back hs sharpness. I hope the board have taken note of what is/has happened and we bring in a strong forward line cover for both Saha and RVN Forlan needs to be sold he isn't A grade material. We need a 4/5man front line ala the treble season. The lack of rotation has hurt us badly this year.

That's pretty much all I can think of for now. There's no point in specualtion over summer signings..I learnt my lesson in the last close season with the Gaucho saga and since then I've been a little apathetic until the signing is made kosher.