Man Utd are

[Acronym]

IMO always 3 or 4 players from world dominance, yet we never get the last three why?

We need the best players at Man utd!!

[j&bontherock]

why Real Madrid can afford to buy all kind of fancy players but, Man U can't, which is richer between the two ?? and how about if compared with Chelsie ? by the way, does anybody know the list of 10 richest clubs in the world ?

[Mac_Howard]

I think the quality of the game in the EPL has moved on a lot in the last 5 years or so and some of the Utd players are not up there amongst the best as they were then.

The Nevilles for example - they're only 'adequate" by today's standards. Giggs isn't producing the performances he used to and I suspect that's as much caused by the opposition as a fall off in his game. Only Scholes has maintained his position.

But the two latest players to emerge from the youth system and with some first team experience, Brown and OShea, just haven't yet made today's standard and consistency necessary for first team selection.

When you consider that even teams like Bolton these days are packed with internationals, then it's no longer easy to dominate these teams.

Despite the protests from other fans that Utd take the best from the transfer market, it's nonsense. What quality experienced players have we bought recently? RvN, Veron, Barthez and Ferdinand! That's in three years. The rest are hopefuls - Forlan, Bellion, DjDj, Ronaldo, Howard, Kleberson - and while some of these may well turn out to be great players we've hardly been robbing the football world of their best players.

If the youth team continues to produce little and the recent intake of youngsters doesn't quickly turn into gold then it may well be that we have to start buying at least a couple of players a season if we're to remain at the top.

Hopefully this season will prove to be a wakeup call and bring Alex and the board to their senses and take a good, long look at the squad and its (lack of) depth. We've been far too complacent recently and we're getting left behind a little.

[musicl]

We are still a great team. All we need is Rio back, Rooney and a world class midfielder (and a left back if we can).

[Acronym]

we need a coup dont we. maybe some class, someone who would scare other teams, and i dont mean Ian Dowie look-a-likes! grr

[jysharma]

I feel that in the past 3 years, Man U has functioned more like a publically listed company than a football club. As a football club you need to take risk and either have quality youngsters in the youth program or buy quality from the transfer market. Over the years, though Man U has been the richest club, it has held its money close to its bossom (except for maybe Ferdinand) to post good profits for its share holders but consistently failing to win the CL. 1999 was great and we were lucky to have quality players with the right attitude to win but we dont anymore. The quality on the pitch has gone down over the years and eventually we will see that the global appeal will take a hit.
So I think that this loss at the CL is a good electric shock to the board to get their act together so that Man U can become the great football club that it is and not another Walmart.

[haven]

...lacking in quality depth.

I still maintain that if there were no injuries or suspensions, I'd stack our roster against anyone except Real Madrid's and Milan's.

The problem is, there ain't nothing after hte surface.

-----Ruud----Saha
Giggs--Keane--Scholes---Ronaldo
O'Shea-Rio--Silvestre---Neville

That line-up freaking rules. Problem is, can a single player be taken out without a significant shortfall? Maybe. One. You might be able to put OGS in for Saha or Ronaldo without too much fallout.

Anything else? We're screwed. And we've been screwed many times this year (sometimes, by SAF).

[Sofabloke]

I'm with you on this one Haven. That team playing in a 4-4-2 week-in week-out would be class.

Giggs and Keane are the two most likely in that team to be out with injury. Silvestre looks lost and terrible in the air when Rio is not there. So the places to look to strengthen that 11 to provide that backup are fairly apparent to me.

Other attributes these replacements should have if possible are one should be captain material and one should have some extra class and world-standing to put some sparkle back into our game and keep the brand going.

[Acronym]

anyone think giggs is often on the periphary of games a lot? Also tell me this, when we played Butty in the game against Porto would we be getting the real Butty knowing that he will be leaving at the end of the season? yet SAF plays him.

Now his great, but do you think he tries to beat the man twice L:?

[johno]

Originally posted by Acronym
anyone think giggs is often on the periphary of games a lot? Also tell me this, when we played Butty in the game against Porto would we be getting the real Butty knowing that he will be leaving at the end of the season? yet SAF plays him.

Now his great, but do you think he tries to beat the man twice L:?

I expect Nicky to give 100% for ManU under any circumstances, he is that kinda guy, but even if he were not... he would want to impress other teams so that they would be interested in him.

[bigtoga]

Originally posted by Acronym
IMO always 3 or 4 players from world dominance, yet we never get the last three why?

We need the best players at Man utd!! Disagree with the first statement; agree with the second.

United has fantastic players and has one of the greatest histories of any club. We won the treble in 99 - that was only a short five years ago. Last season, IMO, we had those players but due to injuries and egos, they didn't mesh. We lost two great players and have fully replaced neither in addition to losing our star CFB.

And I love reading Acr's posts - he's a man ready for action! This man is a United fan for certain - he wants results, doesn't he? While I enjoy the enthusiasm, I also feel that there are many things that go on behind the scenes that we don't see that may influence many of the points you make. I would encourage you not to assume that, just b/c it didn't make the paper, it wasn't discussed or thought of. Again - I enjoy it - not trying to attack.

[Achtung]

In theory, we should generally be able to field that top lineup, and when injuries/suspensions do come into play, we would insert the incoming youngsters so they could get a feel for the team. Unfortunately, the way things have been going this year, we've had too many youngsters in midfield, where we've been relatively healthy, and not enough in the back, where we are chock full of holes. Maybe its a good idea to allow some of our midfielders to plug some of those holes in the defense.

[bigtoga]

Originally posted by Achtung
In theory, we should generally be able to field that top lineup, and when injuries/suspensions do come into play, we would insert the incoming youngsters so they could get a feel for the team. Unfortunately, the way things have been going this year, we've had too many youngsters in midfield, where we've been relatively healthy, and not enough in the back, where we are chock full of holes. Maybe its a good idea to allow some of our midfielders to plug some of those holes in the defense. This is the exact reason why we were winning with the 4-51 but have lost so many (and tied weaker teams) with the 4-4-2, IMO. We need more midfielders on the field helping out on defense; not necessarily playing defense but helping out.

Earlier in the season, we played 4-5-1 exclusively with Ruud up top and were four pts clear seven weeks ago. We went to the 4-4-2 once Saha came in and haven't had much success.

[Motterman]

Originally posted by bigtoga
Earlier in the season, we played 4-5-1 exclusively with Ruud up top and were four pts clear seven weeks ago. We went to the 4-4-2 once Saha came in and haven't had much success.

It didn't help matters when Saha's arrival pretty much coincided with Rio's ban starting as well.

[Sofabloke]

Originally posted by bigtoga
This is the exact reason why we were winning with the 4-51 but have lost so many (and tied weaker teams) with the 4-4-2, IMO. We need more midfielders on the field helping out on defense; not necessarily playing defense but helping out.

Earlier in the season, we played 4-5-1 exclusively with Ruud up top and were four pts clear seven weeks ago. We went to the 4-4-2 once Saha came in and haven't had much success.

It was the timing of the switch to 4-4-2 that was wrong, not the idea itself. If we had gone 4-4-2 when Rio and Silvestre were our centre back pairing we wouldn't have had a worry.

We may have been getting results earlier in the season, but our passing and possession have still been nowhere near previous years. As a result the overall quality and entertainment has been well down for me. I have been blaming this on the 4-5-1 system, but maybe there is more too it.

[bigtoga]

Originally posted by Sofabloke
It was the timing of the switch to 4-4-2 that was wrong, not the idea itself. If we had gone 4-4-2 when Rio and Silvestre were our centre back pairing we wouldn't have had a worry.

We may have been getting results earlier in the season, but our passing and possession have still been nowhere near previous years. As a result the overall quality and entertainment has been well down for me. I have been blaming this on the 4-5-1 system, but maybe there is more too it. You and Motterman make good points and, on the whole, I agree. My issue is that our defense wasn't solid before Rio going out and the 4-5-1 allowed them more cover. No doubt - we've had defensive problems for quite some time now. The 4-5-1 allowed more cover is all.

[Sofabloke]

On statistics our defense has been great all last year; the run-in last year where Wes was a regular and the beginning of the season where Silvestre was a regular. So both these two have shown they can do it when paired with Rio, what is soo disappointing is that they both look vulnerable without (particularly in the air).

Arsenal have shown in Vieirra and Gilberto that in a 4-4-2 you need two ball winners who when they get it do not give it away. Keane and Scholes can still do this, but Keane's mobility may not be able to make up for Scholes getting forward as much as in the past.

[musicl]

Keane and Scholes need replaced with Fletcher and D2.

[Achtung]

I still feel that Kleberson and Dj2 can own the middle of the field if given the chance to work together more often. Dj2 showed his Keane-like aggressiveness against Porto, and I think he can play that DM role. Kleberson is Brazillian, and most likely be extension pretty adept at possession. He also does a good job of linking up with strikers, as he has done this year with Ruud and Forlan. I've been way more impressed with these two this year than I have with Nicky Butt, and while Phil Neville has been fairly solid, I don't think he has what we need anymore.

[Sofabloke]

Hugely confusing isn't it? SAF buys Kleberson and Dj2, then fails to play them this year. Was it against Fullham when even with Keane and Phil Neville in defence, he still chooses Butt, Scholes and Fletcher in a three man midfield leaving these two on the bench!

I agree that Dj2 has looked good the last two part games he has played. Earlier in the season though, he drove me mad giving the ball away, with Giggs, Ronaldo, Saha and Ruud he needs to learn to just play it simple.

Gotta be given a chance haven't they? Though I don't think they are captain material or the spark we need to keep the world-wide fans interested in our side.