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Dark Savante
17 Apr 2009, 03:58 AM
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/Apex_Zwei/66.jpg

I bet it took you a blink of an eye to guess this thread would be about Wayne, right?

After yet another brilliant performance out in Portugal whilst practically being martyred for the team out on the right side of midfield, Wayne has emerged (as if we didn't already know) as one of the players who governs our destiny in the remaining games we play.

Over the aggregate of two legs against Porto there can be no doubt Wayne was our main player. He was MotM for us in the home tie and in the second leg, he did a huge job on Cissokho, a full-back a lot of clubs will be looking at after his performances in the QF, on a right flank that the manager knew would be heavily targeted due to the apparent weakness of O'Shea and Ronaldo not supporting his man on the back-end.

What has been most impressive about Wayne is his willingness to help out the team in any position he is deployed in. He is moved around, for the benefit of others, more than any other top player and yet he goes out there and is dogged to that position for as long as he is told to play there. That takes a tremendous amount of self-control to do, y’know.

Left wing-forward
Right wing-forward
Support striker
Striker
Left midfielder
Right midfielder

the guy is a veritable dream for Fergie and a nightmare for opposing managers to tactically prepare for.

'Yes, yes we know all this' you collectively bellow.

Well, did you know Wayne's one yellow card away from missing the CL final should we get there?

With a PL team to play, the pace and emotion of those games and with the invariable 50/50 calls that may not go Wayne's way, we've got a situation on our hands.. or have we?

Fair enough, if he gets carded in the first leg going for an honest challenge in sane mind.. with us doing the job and winning through to the final he can play in, there’s no problem, but the concern I have is what happens if Wayne sees red and the familiar rage makes itself known?

If we win through to the final, this could be career-defining and career-shaping moment for Wayne.

In both the scenario where we get through with and the one where we get through without him, something monumental will have occurred for our 'Wayne Banner', consider:

Scenario A - with: This means the manager has either 'rested' Wayne for the 2nd leg, or.. Wayne managed to keep himself in check with the kind of discipline he shows us by sticking studiously to any job brief he is given. In this instance we would have proof that Wayne can eventually channel his rage and that from this point onward, we should really looksy on how Wayne chooses to carry himself when he feels the anger building.

Scenario B - without: Unless it's an innocuous incident or just plain shite refereeing, this will mean Wayne, at some point, 'lost it' and did something he may well regret for as long as he is a professional, especially if we lost the final with his game and presence sorely missed.

There can be no doubt whatsoever that these two games have an importance to the 23-yr-old Wayne, that won't be fully appreciated by many once we're in the throes of the game, but for Wayne himself - and perhaps his manager - their will be an added biting of the lip.

Of course, this could be negated with a four nil thumping of Le Arse at OT with Wayne then stalling a set piece long enough for the card to be issued that sees him miss the 2nd leg or him not getting carded at all and being ‘rested’ in the away leg.. but that's an unlikely scenario, isn't it?

We need Wayne out there keeping up the exceptional run of form he has been on whilst not giving in to his demons, to win the CL, imo. He, Ronaldo and Rio are all key... but there's only one player there who would be likely to give us cause for self-destructive concern.

Let's hope we see none of this:

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/Apex_Zwei/10045779.jpg

And plenty of this:

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/Apex_Zwei/2673527850103265676S600x600Q85.jpg

Fingers crossed.

Belgian guy
17 Apr 2009, 04:03 AM
I thought this would have been a thread devoted to Porto's Hulk. :D

Simply Red
17 Apr 2009, 04:41 AM
Who knows? At this point, I think it is anybody´s guess how he will react in certain situations. Didn´t SAF try to make Rooney start playing the guitar so that he would learn some patiens, how did that go? Didn´t Rooney say just a while ago that he got too frustrated with the whole thing and quit? I´m always scared when he gets frustrated, you´ll never know what will happen. In any cast I just hope SAF plans well enough so that Rooney doesn´t have to become frustrated.

But if he were to miss the final, I think that could be an awakener for him no matter if we win or lose.

Tony Dellbird
17 Apr 2009, 07:58 AM
Who knows? At this point, I think it is anybody´s guess how he will react in certain situations. Didn´t SAF try to make Rooney start playing the guitar so that he would learn some patiens, how did that go? Didn´t Rooney say just a while ago that he got too frustrated with the whole thing and quit? I´m always scared when he gets frustrated, you´ll never know what will happen. In any cast I just hope SAF plans well enough so that Rooney doesn´t have to become frustrated.

But if he were to miss the final, I think that could be an awakener for him no matter if we win or lose.

All his brothers play, so it shouldn't be all that hard!

Harry Boulton
17 Apr 2009, 08:14 AM
The way he is playing and the role can is playing, and can play in the side makes him key.

He potentially holds the key to all of our success this season and that bothers me a little. To have your success pinned on a player who can turn green and angry in the blink of an eye is midly concerning.

If he is to get book, I'd rather it be in the first leg. That way he can still contribute to a home win and then he'll be available for the final IF we made it. And against Barcelona or Chelsea, we'd need him.

MtP07
17 Apr 2009, 08:23 AM
Didn´t SAF try to make Rooney start playing the guitar so that he would learn some patiens, how did that go? Didn´t Rooney say just a while ago that he got too frustrated with the whole thing and quit? I´m always scared when he gets frustrated, you´ll never know what will happen. In any cast I just hope SAF plans well enough so that Rooney doesn´t have to become frustrated.

But if he were to miss the final, I think that could be an awakener for him no matter if we win or lose.

He better learn some patience soon, as he has a little one on the way.

Holy__Joe
17 Apr 2009, 09:25 AM
Love how they both have same boot but different colours! Wonder who gets first choice :p

Simply Red
17 Apr 2009, 09:30 AM
He better learn some patience soon, as he has a little one on the way.

I didn´t think of that. Rio mentioned that having kids helped him grow up a little. Hopefully it has the same affect on Rooney. Could be a blessing in disguise. Too bad the kid didn´t come before this run-in, doubt simply having her knocked up will calm him down to much :D

pgr17
17 Apr 2009, 09:45 AM
Didn´t SAF try to make Rooney start playing the guitar so that he would learn some patiens,

the Guns-n-Roses song? ;)

---

good observations DS... didn't realize that he was on that YC. hopefully it will be made known to him to keep emotions in check. i'm sure players like Scholes can attest to him what it is like to miss out on a CL final (if we get there). but at the end of the day, i'd like to think Rooney can control his emotions and lets them out when he wants in positive ways. i'm sure it is one thing they discuss internally.

but if he can keep the rash tackles to a minimum we should be good to go. Arsenal will definitely try to exploit it, no doubt about that.

johno
17 Apr 2009, 10:40 AM
I've got the feeling that Wazza has several gears to go up. I don't want him to play without the rage. Perhaps channeling it better, but I want him to be at the edge of losing it. It fires up our players and lets everyone involved, us and them, know that if no one else does, he cares about the result.

Watch Wayne pick up a yellow in the first half and bag a second half hattrick to see us through :D

Vermont Red
17 Apr 2009, 11:52 AM
I was impressed with the way Rooney kept things in check in the Porto match. At one point he was dispossessed and the Porto player starting to going the other way. I held my breath waiting for Rooney to enter the picture, all pissed off, trying to win the ball back or, failing that, putting the player on the ground. Nothing happened.

I hope he's available for the final if we get that far. It's clearly up to him for the most part.

benni...
17 Apr 2009, 12:01 PM
Who knows? At this point, I think it is anybody´s guess how he will react in certain situations. Didn´t SAF try to make Rooney start playing the guitar so that he would learn some patiens, how did that go? Didn´t Rooney say just a while ago that he got too frustrated with the whole thing and quit? I´m always scared when he gets frustrated, you´ll never know what will happen. In any cast I just hope SAF plans well enough so that Rooney doesn´t have to become frustrated.

But if he were to miss the final, I think that could be an awakener for him no matter if we win or lose.

I think I read somehwere, maybe the new Inside United magazine, that he gave up on the guitar for the drum set. :D

sdotsom
17 Apr 2009, 12:03 PM
It's up to him whether he wants to be there or not. We've said it for years - his competitive drive is great, but it doesn't help us if he's not on the pitch. He has to use it appropriately. He did so against Porto.

I'd be scared as hell if we (fingers crossed) made it to the CL Final and didn't have him. He's the closest thing we have to a striker.

SyedZada
17 Apr 2009, 02:26 PM
For me, Rooney has progressed normally and steadily, as compared to say Ronaldo and Messi, alot of people thought he was better potential than Ronnie (When Ronnie was one trick pony, and United message boards specially places like Redcafe were littered in getting rid of him and getting Robben or missing on him etc or Reyes, Joaquin, Vicente etc etc.) You can see similar threads about Nani and wanting players even like Valencia to replace him.
He hasnt had a big leap in progression, like Messi, Ronaldo or even Kaka, but for me he is more likely to be consistent over his career than them and he will probably be someone who peaks after 25 rather than before it and looks a shadow of himself at 27/28 (Adriano, Ronadinho, Kluivert etc etc).
You cant probably ignore he has gotten better, he has learned more, he is doing better, he is becoming more important every season.

His temper is probably something that may have a big say where his career goes, I dont think he will cool down but if he can use his temper as a guideline as Ronaldo does to his arrogrance (I am the best so I must perform as one) he will have a great career.

lynne
17 Apr 2009, 06:55 PM
^^Hard to believe that Rooney is still only 23. Seems like he's been at Utd forever.

Remember de Rossi's elbow on McBride last WC? The Italian coach (can't think of his name) talked about de Rossi in a fashion somewhere between talking about a naughty kindergartener and a rather slow teenager. He definitely talked about de Rossi as a 'youngster' who was still just learning on the world stage.

Rooney is at the same point now. He's expected to perform in the biggest games, but still at a point where he might crack under the strain. Imagine what he'll be like when he's 28.

btw, I don't think it helps that Rooney has the English refs to give him a pass on his behavior. It makes life easier short-term for him, but when he gets to Europe, the standards are much different.

Numquam Moribimur
17 Apr 2009, 07:40 PM
I never want rooney to change ever, in a way it what makes him brilliant and crazy at the same time. I am find with it. That being said he has learned to control his temper a bit over the years.

I Do want say something about wanye that I don’t think people give him enough credit that he is our best team player. You could put rooney at CB and I think he would get the job done !

Sinstar
17 Apr 2009, 09:54 PM
If you want the real Hulk, he's on FC Porto :P

Rooney suits the personality better though, he is quite the angry camping sometimes.

Dark Savante
18 Apr 2009, 03:10 AM
the Guns-n-Roses song? ;)

---

good observations DS... didn't realize that he was on that YC. hopefully it will be made known to him to keep emotions in check. i'm sure players like Scholes can attest to him what it is like to miss out on a CL final (if we get there). but at the end of the day, i'd like to think Rooney can control his emotions and lets them out when he wants in positive ways. i'm sure it is one thing they discuss internally.

but if he can keep the rash tackles to a minimum we should be good to go. Arsenal will definitely try to exploit it, no doubt about that.

Personally, I don't think it has much to do with the opposition. The times when you think he should blow up because of provocation or whatever, he gets on with the game with nary a hint of anger, but the times when you think there's nothing to really be riled up about, he goes and blows a gasket.

It all comes from within with him and you can see the "!" point clear as day before he goes and does something stupid. I'd like to not see the "!" and instead see Wayne realise the "!" point is coming and control it and himself, so he doesn't get booked or sent off in games.

He's one of our genuine keys to success from this point onward. Losing him for any game where he would be vital could well see us out of a cup or badly punished in the league.

Dark Savante
27 Apr 2009, 03:58 AM
http://opinionhead.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/scared-to-death.png

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i237/MrsZ_photos/praying.gif

Rooney has been superb for us of late and these two games... well.. we all know what happens if he gets the booking in the second..

I hope he gets through them both unscathed. :o

johno
27 Apr 2009, 09:38 AM
Will be interesting to see how SAF deploys him. He could well use the occasion as an excuse to play him in his nominal role at SS to avoid as much tracking back as he'd have on the left.

Personally, to ensure the least frustration I'd play a 4231. For starters, we're at home and they've got a weakened defence. Secondly, we need practice in it if he will be missing for 2nd leg or final as that will surely be something we'll need at some stage. Lastly, in that formation, we're more likely to dictate to the opposition and the risks of Wazza becoming frustrated are reduced.