Manchester United - FC Porto CL 2nd Leg [R]

[johno]

Originally posted by drdi
My friend, i play soccer for more than 33 years, i am a medical doctor, an anesthesiologist - i was the anesthesiologist in charge when Vitor Baia and Deco suffered surgical interventions, by the way- and i have personal acquaintance with the president of F.C.Porto, Jorge Nuno Pinto da Costa. what i want to mean is that with Real Madrid, Milan and, probably, Arsenal we have very few chances of winning a place in the semi-finals, but with any other team we have 50 % chances to beat them. i always thought that we could win against Manchester, and if manchester had some players missing so did we- and very lethal ones, by the way.
If we could have only 20 % of Manchester budget we could built , with relative ease, a team that could compete very strongly for every european cup.

Credit to Porto for trying very hard and never giving up... but face it... You faced ManU playing the worse football they have played in my lifetmie... and Im 21... what players do u have missing that are worse off than our 2 best defenders, our first choice left back, our captain and best defensive midfielder? Ok, so u miss Derlei - but its not like u did not have other strikers... we had to splash together a backline for the first and second legs... but in all honesty, we still should have beaten you... fact is, u did not win, u were the benefactors of the worst offside call I have seen for some time - to disallow a goal, a non-penalty call, and numerous unpunished dives by Carlos Alberto... like I said, I credit Porto with not giving up.... but not much else -

We may not be in the CL last eight this year... but we won this tie... thats how I feel... but don't worry, im sure we will meet Porto again in the future, I pray that you are full strength... because once we are playing football at our potential, there are maybe, maybe 3 teams that can beat us... Milan, Real, Arsenal (on their current form)

You are right... we do have a bigger payrolll, but thats not our fault - its yours... become a more profitable team... i dont care how... dont blame us for our success - We have underperformed, losing to teams we should not have lost to and winning just 2 of our last 6 or 7 games...

[Motterman]

Originally posted by mtkillamanjohno

You are right... we do have a bigger payrolll

They pulled that "we're just a small team from Portugal" out of their arse again, eh? :rolleyes:

[JoniP]

Originally posted by mtkillamanjohno
Credit to Porto for trying very hard and never giving up... but face it... You faced ManU playing the worse football they have played in my lifetmie... and Im 21... what players do u have missing that are worse off than our 2 best defenders, our first choice left back, our captain and best defensive midfielder? Ok, so u miss Derlei - but its not like u did not have other strikers... we had to splash together a backline for the first and second legs... but in all honesty, we still should have beaten you... fact is, u did not win, u were the benefactors of the worst offside call I have seen for some time - to disallow a goal, a non-penalty call, and numerous unpunished dives by Carlos Alberto... like I said, I credit Porto with not giving up.... but not much else -

We may not be in the CL last eight this year... but we won this tie... thats how I feel... but don't worry, im sure we will meet Porto again in the future, I pray that you are full strength... because once we are playing football at our potential, there are maybe, maybe 3 teams that can beat us... Milan, Real, Arsenal (on their current form)

You are right... we do have a bigger payrolll, but thats not our fault - its yours... become a more profitable team... i dont care how... dont blame us for our success - We have underperformed, losing to teams we should not have lost to and winning just 2 of our last 6 or 7 games...

Oh come 'on.. Obviousily you know nothing about portuguese football.. We had no wingers to play with.. César Peixoto, Marco Ferreira and Sérgio Conceição couldn't play.. Maciel couldn't play.. Pedro Mendes couldn't play and Derlei couldn't play.. You may not know those players but some of them are extremely important for us and great players..
We had to play with 3 playmakers on the midfield Deco, Carlos alberto and Alenitchev and one semi playmaker Maniche.. Most of them adapted in other posicion.. So stop complaining about your missing players..
When you will you recognize that Porto were a better team counting the 2 legs and deserved to win.. Besides that you keep saying that united is playing bad are missing players the ref took a goal (I agree on that).. Haven't crossed your mind that MU couldn't play cause Porto were better.. Oh no you have to come up with some other excuse..

[Motterman]

Originally posted by JoniP
Haven't crossed your mind that MU couldn't play cause Porto were better.. Oh no you have to come up with some other excuse..

Over the two legs, Porto were the better side.

Whether the results would have been different with both sides at full strength and on top form, we'll never know for sure, will we?

I'll go out on a limb and predict that United supporters would tend to think their side would come out on top, and vice versa with Porto fans.

I think our experience gives us the edge, personally, not just because our players are paid more in wages.

[johno]

Originally posted by JoniP

When you will you recognize that Porto were a better team counting the 2 legs and deserved to win.. Besides that you keep saying that united is playing bad are missing players the ref took a goal (I agree on that).. Haven't crossed your mind that MU couldn't play cause Porto were better.. Oh no you have to come up with some other excuse..

No... because in about a month we tied with Leeds, lost to Middlesborogh, nearly gave up a lead to Everton... these are teams we usually steamroll.. and Porto is one that if we played 10 times, we would beat them 7 times, with 2 draws probably...

How stupid... You are damn right it has not crossed my mind that Porto were better... because after the group stages we were all saying to ourselves... damnit, please lets not draw Milan, Madrid or Porto!!!

The only players u can complain about are those who have been injured recently because the others have not affected your progress in your league now has it? But the guys we lost, have impacted our place in the league...


You dimwit! For the last time... Porto was not good, we were bad... plain and simple... I gave yall credit for taking what chances you had, but we gave them to you... the next damn thing is damn Wolves fans will come out and talk about how they have a superior team to ManU... damnit, the stupidity of people who post on BS...

its not every time you beat a team that you are better... if we had lost only to you, then fine.. you played better, you deserved it, but if a giant like Ali gets into a rut and even his kid sister can beat him up, the skinny little challenger boy who wins on a split decision in a well contested bout cannot claim that he is great because of this win...

one could argue that ManU and Bayern 5 years ago were evenly matched.. cuz we were - we won, but we did not dominate... we skated through on our ashes, you guys did not skate thru on your ashes we just played poorly...

Now... repeat after me... the mantra of all you idiots...

ManU has a bigger payroll

They lost a match so let us troll

The ref cheated them out of a goal

Come together fellow idiots, let us troll

Oh, they've lost another

Its happy time brother

let us claim our team is better

even if our coffers are not fatter

We rule supreme

ManU is a dream

They soft and easy...

We (wolves, porto, leeds) eat them like icecream
ManU has a bigger payroll

They lost a match so let us troll

The ref cheated them out of a goal

Come together fellow idiots, let us troll

[umbra]

porto fans are crazy if they think in 10 games between a healthy porto vs a healthy man utd, porto would win more than 3/10.

no way. i think the rush from winning is blurring their analytical skills.

[Soccerholic]

It's been a long week at work and I was too disgusted to comment earlier. Here are a few observations:

1. I don't understand the lineup that Alex put out. Much of the attack in 2004 has gone through Ronaldo and United needed to score at least one goal (and they needed 3 in the likely event that they would give up a goal). So why start Fletcher? The only reason I can come up with is that he tracks back and works harder on defense than Ronaldo. Wouldn't it make more sense to start Ronaldo and then consider putting in Fletcher late in the game for defense?

2. Any team that starts both Nevilles and Nicky Butt is doomed. They have all been horrible this year; none can complete a worthwhile pass most of the time. I realize that Alex had limited options, but I don't see how Butt gets put in ahead of Klebs. With Dj2, you have a true d-mid. Not one as good as Keane, of course, but he can destroy things. Klebs could have been the link between defense and offense. With Butt and Dj2, there's not much quality passing coming from the central midfield.

3. The team is up 1-0 at half and Dj2 - who I thought played reasonably - is injured. OK. Put in Klebs, right? Nope. You put in Saha, who was too sick to start, and go to a 4-4-2 while trying to sit back and defend your lead. Now, this really makes no sense, unless Klebs is absolutely horrible in training, which I doubt. By going to a 4-4-2 and trying to play defense, you put Scholes - United's best attacking player and a notoriously poor defender - deep in the midfield so he can try to defend. Result: United get few good opportunites to counter.

4. The amazing thing is that somehow United defended admirably until Phil's fatal error in the closing minutes. And yes, Phil, Tim, and O'Shea were all at fault for the goal, but both Phil and O'Shea were just plain stupid. You don't foul 25 yards out when there's no danger, and you don't let your mark get away after the free kick. Tim's fault is that it was an awkward punch, but you can't fault his brain like you can the other two.

Hopefully, this will be a wakeup call at OT. United likely wouldn't have gotten past the QF, even if they did hang on to beat Porto.

[um_chili]

Originally posted by mtkillamanjohno
No... because in about a month we tied with Leeds, lost to Middlesborogh, nearly gave up a lead to Everton... these are teams we usually steamroll.. and Porto is one that if we played 10 times, we would beat them 7 times, with 2 draws probably...

How stupid... You are damn right it has not crossed my mind that Porto were better... because after the group stages we were all saying to ourselves... damnit, please lets not draw Milan, Madrid or Porto!!!

The only players u can complain about are those who have been injured recently because the others have not affected your progress in your league now has it? But the guys we lost, have impacted our place in the league...


You dimwit! For the last time... Porto was not good, we were bad... plain and simple... I gave yall credit for taking what chances you had, but we gave them to you... the next damn thing is damn Wolves fans will come out and talk about how they have a superior team to ManU... damnit, the stupidity of people who post on BS...

its not every time you beat a team that you are better... if we had lost only to you, then fine.. you played better, you deserved it, but if a giant like Ali gets into a rut and even his kid sister can beat him up, the skinny little challenger boy who wins on a split decision in a well contested bout cannot claim that he is great because of this win...

one could argue that ManU and Bayern 5 years ago were evenly matched.. cuz we were - we won, but we did not dominate... we skated through on our ashes, you guys did not skate thru on your ashes we just played poorly...


So let's see, it sounds like your point is that because some hypothetical version of ManU that did not take the pitch against Porto in the CL would have won that hypothetical match, Porto's win is not deserved.

That may or may not be true, but it's a meaningless point: as I explained in an earlier post on this board, hypothetical full-strength teams never play each other. There is only a given matchup on a given day. All this talk about who's better in the abstract is indeterminate and thus useless.

What makes more sense is to compare what happened on the pitch in the matches that actually took place: in my view, Porto outplayed ManU in Porto, and the teams were evenly matched in Manchester (ManU with the upper hand in teh first half, Porto with the better of hte play in the second)--thus Porto's win was deserved, because they were the better team (though not by a wide margin) over the two legs of the tie.

Perhaps full-strength ManU would dismantle full-strength Porto in 8/10 games. I don't know, and I don't care--because there will never be any such contest. If Porto and ManU face one another next year and ManU comes away with a win, good for them. They will have won that round. We won this one.

As for your trolling accusations, they're simply wrong. There have been some Porto trolls on this board--who I've been critical of in all my posts--but JoniP and drdi are not among them. They are making reasonable arguments with which reasonable people might agree, but they're not simply trying to wind ManU fans up, and your suggestion that they are is wrong.

I give props to the ManU fans who have taken a thoughtful view of the game and, in many instances, given Porto the credit I think they deserve. By far the majority of ManU fans posting here fit that category, and I give respect to that because it's hard to be a good loser (a fact that I, as a fan of Portugese teams in european competition, have had to face more than ManU fans). As for the embittered losers like mtkilla, I'm sure your irrational anger and clouded judgment will fall away as you exit adolescence. Until then, you might want to seek a different medium than poetry --it's clearly not where your gifts lie.