Can Hearts win the SPL?

[najr01]

Hearts are in third place in the SPL and if they stay there they'll be back in Europe again. I'd love to see them challenging Scottish football again. With just Rangers and Celtic it's boring. How can we be competitive with just two teams?

Here's Andrew Driver singing the praises of Csaba and the team. (http://sport.stv.tv/home/88332-driver-pledges-future-to-hearts-under-laszlo/)

He says he'll stay at the club since they're going places, and that next season they might be in with a challenge. But i reckon Hearts will falter. They seem to think that they'll keep their players but come the summer they'll be going like hotcakes.

[azjohnnymac]

I would have to say no. Celtic are spending the minimum that they have too to win the SPL (and they are cutting it close this season). It is all about money for both Celtic & Rangers and as long as they make it to the group stages they seem to be happy.

As much as I would like Celtic to get back to the football that they were known for, it is not a priority. I would love to get back to the days of the late 70s and early 80s where we had real competition to win it.

Lets hope.

[YankHibee]

No, of course not.

[frasermc]

Driver will be long gone in the summer. probably Aguiar as well if there is any interest. Vlad will be looking to cash in.

if we(Celtic) invest a bit more in the team than we have in recent transfer windows then there is every chance of strengthening our position further. i can't see Hearts or any other club investing any more than they are at the minute.

[Bluesfan]

Not a chance. It would take finishing third consistantly for several seasons to consolidate and mount a challenge for second.

Second place, although unlikely, isn't completely out of the realm of possibility, but Champions? Pure fantasy I am afraid.

[The Tartan Hoop]

They manage a draw in a game we clearly under performed. Now they are in with a shout at winning the league.

Yoo havin a bubble!?!?! :p

[YankHibee]

I agree that it would take several seasons of power building to have even a lucky shot at winning the title for any team not in Glasgow. Exaccerbating that problem is that any team with that kind of production is not going to be able to keep its players.

[Pedro's greasy do]

I agree that it would take several seasons of power building to have even a lucky shot at winning the title for any team not in Glasgow. Exaccerbating that problem is that any team with that kind of production is not going to be able to keep its players.

All it would take is loads of money. Look at Chelsea.

[YankHibee]

All it would take is loads of money. Look at Chelsea.


Sure, if a billionaire decided to come in and completely change the game, the game would...um, change. Even then, it isn't necessarily that easy, look at Hearts.

[frasermc]

Sure, if a billionaire decided to come in and completely change the game, the game would...um, change. Even then, it isn't necessarily that easy, look at Hearts.

yes but Hearts didn't get a billionaire, they got Eastern Europe's answer to Derek Trotter.

[najr01]

Still, if they manage not to implode again in the next few years they could compete with the OF. I hope they do. it;s better all round.

[ThePebble]

YES!

Hearts can absolutely with the league. What quite a few Old Firm fans have yet to realize is that their teams are not spending the “minimum to win the league,” these teams are spending the maximum in their budget which is only enough to win the league.

Look across Europe and the teams that play in England. The salaries and earnings have gone up. These teams compete deeper in Champions League and EUFA Cup. The domestic television rights deals in conjunction with international television rights deals add even more to the coffers. Rangers and Celtic have neither of this.

Right now, Rangers and Celtic have more money than Hearts due to European competition. However, just look at Rangers this year. No European money at all and they are now talking about shedding a lot of players to make room. Celtic received a bit more, but they are in the same boat (anyone thinking otherwise is delusional).

If there is a young quality prospect that either Rangers or Celtic is after, they simply cannot compete if someone from another league, particularly England, wants to purchase them. An example of this would be Carlos Cuellar. The guy was arguably the best player in the SPL last season. At the start of this one he is immediately purchased and moved south. Rangers went out and found Bougherra as a replacement. The guy has played well, but at times he can be inconsistent. This is what teams are left with.

The Old Firm is now built on guys like Jan Vinnegar of Hesselink, Scott McDonald and Georgios Samaras. One week they look great, the next week they couldn’t hit the ocean if the fell out of a boat. None of those three would see the light of day let alone the bench for an EPL side. The closest you can get is a guy like Boyd, but he’s a lazy plodder most of the time. He has a quality finishing touch but has absolutely no ability to make a goal on his own.

Hearts can certainly win the league at some point. I don’t think we’ll see it for at least another three years, but as long as they are developing young talent and keeping the guys that they have, they will be a force to reckon with.

[YankHibee]

A look at the Tarts finances suggests things aren't so well, despite the glowy spin of this article (http://sport.scotsman.com/sport/Hearts-slash-debt-by-20.5202685.jp). Considering what has been sold and what is left, operating at such a loss is still pretty pathetic.

[frasermc]

Right now, Rangers and Celtic have more money than Hearts due to European competition. However, just look at Rangers this year. No European money at all and they are now talking about shedding a lot of players to make room. Celtic received a bit more, but they are in the same boat (anyone thinking otherwise is delusional).


we're in the same boat? now who's being delusional. Celtic have almost wiped out their debt completely. our financial situation is night and day compared to Rangers. and if you think that a run in the CL will solve Hearts financial woes then you're off your rocker.


Hearts can certainly win the league at some point. I don’t think we’ll see it for at least another three years, but as long as they are developing young talent and keeping the guys that they have, they will be a force to reckon with.


and since when did Hearts hold onto the young players they develop on occasion...?

[Bluesfan]

As much as I love them, Hearts wins the SPL in the same dream where Jessica Alba shows up in nothing but a towel on my doorstep.:D

Don't wake me, reality isn't near as much fun

[ThePebble]

we're in the same boat? now who's being delusional. Celtic have almost wiped out their debt completely. our financial situation is night and day compared to Rangers. and if you think that a run in the CL will solve Hearts financial woes then you're off your rocker.
Your attempt to turn this into an ad hominum attack notwithstanding, I don’t believe a word about Celtic’s books being balanced. Only the true believers ever by into such statements. Celtic is able to manage it better based on winning the league the last few years and gaining the money handed out to the automatic qualifiers. However, to say that they are out of debt is, well, just silly.

You are also building a straw man regarding Hearts. I never said that a CL run would “solve all of their problems.” I do believe that it would help them the same way that it has helped Celtic and Rangers remain so far heads and shoulders above the rest.

and since when did Hearts hold onto the young players they develop on occasion...?
Again, these were stipulated answers. Hearts can achieve a certain goal if they are able to follow steps X, Y and Z. I have not stated that they will definitely do so.

[frasermc]

Your attempt to turn this into an ad hominum attack notwithstanding

hmm.. So let me get this straight. Anyone who doesn't agree with your take on it is delusional, as you've stated in your previous post, but if anyone posts something arguing against that case and mentions the phrase 'off your rocker', which can be construed as delusional, is making a personal attack on you. Ok... :rolleyes:


I don’t believe a word about Celtic’s books being balanced. Only the true believers ever by into such statements. Celtic is able to manage it better based on winning the league the last few years and gaining the money handed out to the automatic qualifiers. However, to say that they are out of debt is, well, just silly.


Period end net bank debt of £0.97m (2007: £3.63m).

Taken from Celtic's PLC accounts for December 2008. Here is the link from the official website.

http://www.celticfc.net/news/stories/news_200209140110.aspx

Celtic manages its debt better because of the sound financial way the club is run. Of course the Champions League helps but it's not the be all and end all. There happen to be nearly 50,000 season ticket holders and a worldwide support that spends a lot of money on merchandise. An example of how that helps the club can be seen in the Nike kit deal, which has been recently renewed for somewhere in the region of £25mill over the next 5 seasons. Are Hearts going to manage that, or 50,000 season ticket holders anytime soon? To base your argument almost entirely on CL revenue is blinkered in the extreme.


You are also building a straw man regarding Hearts. I never said that a CL run would “solve all of their problems.” I do believe that it would help them the same way that it has helped Celtic and Rangers remain so far heads and shoulders above the rest.


Right now, Rangers and Celtic have more money than Hearts due to European competition.

Your words, not mine. And entirely flawed.


Again, these were stipulated answers. Hearts can achieve a certain goal if they are able to follow steps X, Y and Z. I have not stated that they will definitely do so.

All you've stated so far is Hearts can win the title in the next few years if they can equal the Glasgow clubs in terms of European income and hold onto their best players.

No mention of the difference in merchandising and season ticket sales and ticket sales in general. Feel free to explain to me how they'll hold onto their best players when they haven't managed to do so in more years than I care to remember.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a stronger SPL with not just Hearts but also Dundee Utd, Hibs etc challenging at the top. Celtic and Rangers can't compete with the premiership. I'm not sure there is a league that can, but they can still easily outspend every other team in the SPL both in terms of salary and transfer fees, and I can't see that changing for some time, in Celtic's case anyway.