Youngsters in MLS (1993 or later)

I do not believe he said he did not want to play in the MLS. I think he said his dream was to play in at the highest level possible, and for him it was in Europe.

 

I do find it interesting that many American players say they want to play in Europe because its the highest level in the world then sign with 2nd division Austrian sides or Norwegian 1st Division teams.
This just in those leagues are not the highest levels in the world.
I'm going out on a limb that MLS is better than most of the leagues or very competitive with these lower leagues that they sign with in Europe. I do understand the different culture of European socccer, but not every league on the continent should be grouped together with this statement. Its like saying I want to go to the US to play the highest level of basketball in the world then signing with a team in the Tobacco Road Basketball league.

 

Shrug.

By what mechanism could Josh Gatt have signed with MLS?

At the time he left for Europe, he wouldn't have been signed as a GenAd. He wasn't eligible to be signed as a homegrown or take part in the draft. He wasn't considered that type of elite prospect as a U17/8 that a player like Luis Gil was, so the chances of his getting an allocation-style draft would have been minimal.

For a guy like Josh Gatt the choices were going abroad to whatever league would take him, or go to the NCAAs. [He did in fact commit to Indiana before heading off to Austria]

 

Hey, ACC basketball is pretty good.

 

Do your shoulders hurt from repetitive motion syndrome?

 

My point was more of their perception and not reality of signing with MLS. Since you brought it up I do think it's a major blind spot for MLS. MLS is constantly evaluating talent aquisition and changing rules as the situation fits. They add a DP rule, they add a youth International DP rule, which provides liquidity making easier and smoother the ability for teams to sign talent from abroad. How about a domestic youth DP rule providing money and rule relaxation for MLS to acquire US based talent from player trials they've scouted. More in line with the international methodology of scouting,trialing, recruiting and signing domestic youth talent. Too many rules that restrict the talent acquisition of young domestic talent hurts the league, hurts player development, and hurts the growth and foundation of the stated long term goals of the league to improve the product on the field. They say one thing but ignore the basics in how to accomplish those stated goals. Using terms like allocation, Gen Ad, draft, Homegrown are road blocks to true growth of the game. I know you're going to say thems the rules, and I say MLS has changed other rules and can easily change these rules too for the benefit of the game and MLS growth.

 

I happen to agree with you regarding the league's acquisition of young players. The draft should be open to all players as opposed to GenAd underclassmen and graduating seniors, for instance. If Josh Gatt (or a player in a similar situation) had wanted to make himself available for the draft, he should have been allowed to do so. He could have impressed coaches & general managers at the combine....................

I think the point I was trying to make was that Josh Gatt wasn't thought of as the type of prospect that MLS would necessarily have been interested in. He wasn't a U17 international, got a token appearance or two with the U18s, and only ended up with something like 4 caps with the U20's after he'd already gone to Europe. Would an MLS front office & coaching staff have seen the raw talent, and drafted him as a "project" if they were allowed to? Who knows................

 

The non-GA underclassmen rule is definitely up there with one of MLS's dumbest rules. I've never seen a reporter ask Garber about it either.

Just look at Soony Saad. Wanted to sign with MLS but they didn't offer him GA, he goes and trials in Europe, then signs a non-GA deal with MLS and goes in the lottery. Would've been much easier had he signed for the SuperDraft in the first place.

I also like how the NBA allows underclassmen to declare for the draft, do some workouts and get feedback, but can return back to college as long as they don't hire an agent.

 

Good Point. Josh Gatt wasn't thought of the type of prospect because as much as I twinge at the rules, the teams themselves don't work on that International Standard and methodology of scouting either.
Half of the equation isn't only the rules but how MLS professional teams scout, recruit, trial and sign. There are so many rules they don't have to have any staff, relationships, procedures, policies to do so. Why have a nationwide scouting network or consortium when you can't sign anyone outside 70 miles. I want to see the draft remain for 4 yr college players. I don't want a unilateral decision of player only to decide to go to the draft. I want a mutually interested relationship between player and team like everyother country. I would have liked Josh Gatt to be able to trial and train with any team he sees fits based on his personal needs then a team offer him a contract or not and Josh decide what's best for him. The teams would then have some flexability with their Domestic youth DP budget to offer a competitive youth offer of $75K with incentives. I don't want 30-40 thousand stand in the way for MLS to be able to sign more talented US youth. Especially now since they've started to sign very average International 'stars' like Kenny Miller and Kris Boyd...
You are looking through the eyes of the present Americanized scouting lense. No player should be judged good enough for a contract based upon: 'He wasn't a U17 international, got a token appearance or two with the U18s, and only ended up with something like 4 caps with the U20's after he'd already gone to Europe'. That's not how a team should decide. 'Would an MLS front office & coaching staff have seen the raw talent, and drafted him as a "project" if they were allowed to? Who knows............'
Who knows is exactly right, Let them know based upon trials and training in front of the entire MLS team's staff for them to decide like a real professional system. We need to get away from our system where youth National Team coaches decides whether he's of professional quality. Pros should lead our scouting not play a secondary role.

 

I am going to preface my response by saying that I am a Gatt slappy. I was fortunate enough to watch him play while he was playing club ball at the Michigan Wolves. I keep quiet on these blogs most of the time while I have watched Gatt’s career unfold over the last two years. I try to watch as many of his games as possible if streams are available.

However your comments got me thinking enough to respond and come to one of these two conclusions: Either you are an MLS apologist or really have no idea about the sport of soccer in a global sense or about how Gatt got to where he is today.

You brought up other sports (Basketball) so I am going to do the same. Gatt has claimed in countless interviews that his goals at a very young age were to play in Europe at the highest level and play in World Cups. So, let’s use the sport of baseball as an example rather than basketball. If you want to make it to the Bigs, how and where do 99% of the players do it? Here in the good old USA where they typically climb up the minor league system. They either come right out of high school (Gatt) or go to college; then they are drafted and placed, depending on talent, on either the club’s A, AA or AAA team. Maybe 1% make the jump straight from H.S/College to the Bigs but that is a very rare exception, not the rule. Some progress rapidly (one to two years in the minors) while others may play minor league ball for 4-6 years before they get their shot, if they get their shot at all. But even in baseball in the majors, there are the elite/powerhouse clubs (Yankees, Red Sox, etc.) that have more money to lure the “best of the best” and then there are the “middle of the table” clubs.

So if we exclude South American, where are the best of the best playing (the “Bigs”) and where are the elite/powerhouse clubs? Go ahead, you can say it – Europe. So, Gatt never said he was going to go straight to the highest level, he said he wanted to (eventually) play at the highest level – it was a goal. So, he started in the minors (Lowly division II in Austria – as in interesting side bar, Altach, the team he went to was in the Austrian Bundesliga the previous year and according to a recent poster, the Austrian Bundesliga is much higher league than Norway). Do you think he went to Altach thinking this was his end game? No, he knew he wanted to get into the system and he knew he had to learn a lot more about the sport of soccer. Six months later, he is leading the team into first place and by all accounts, the best player on the field.

"I do find it interesting that many American players say they want to play in Europe because its the highest level in the world then sign with 2nd division Austrian sides or Norwegian 1st Division teams."

So Gatt does exactly what he is supposed to do, he masters AA ball in six months (many of the early posters where saying he better be out of there in 12-18 months). Do you think he just picked a measly Norwegian 1st Division team as a next step? Let’s see, Molde announces Ole Gunnar Solskjaer as its new manager. One of the first things he states is that he is going to bring the Man United way of playing soccer to the club. He then grabs one of the best talents from Man U reserves (Eikrem) and brings him along. Finally he states that not only is he going to build a winning team but also be a development club for young talent to move to bigger clubs like Molde did for him and his career. And then he seeks out and asked Gatt to join him. Measly Norwegian 1st Division club or some great career planning?

How has it worked out so far? Ole/Eikrem & Gatt help Molde win their first championship in their 100 year history (Even Cubs fans have it easier than this). I their second year, they are again in first place. They were a PK away from advancing in the Champions League and when that fell through, they soundly advanced to the Europa League group stage by pounding Heerenveen (according to many posters who watched the game, Gatt was the most dominant player on the pitch in their last match). I watched as well and offensively, he was very good but more importantly, showed that he could compete and succeed at that level. As proof that this isn’t a single game fluke, look at any major paper’s ranking and you will see both Gatt and Eikrem in the top ten (and in some, the top five). So Norway is not the best league – call is AAA Ball. How is Gatt progressing? Does he have the tools to make it to the “Bigs”? Does he have the tools to make it to the Powerhouses/Elite Clubs? Time will tell but if you honestly believe that this was random, or that he could have gotten to the same place by going to college/MLS, I would have to strongly disagree. There are not many (if any) Ole’s in the MLS that can pick up a phone and call the Big/elite clubs in Europe to recommend a player. There are not many coaches in the MLS, if any, that have the Elite club playing experience like Ole.

All this is telling us is that Gatt had goals. Those goals were then transformed into a plan and now he is working that plan. It also tells me that he has some great advisers (I believe his agent is a European, not an American). Gatt didn’t randomly say I am going to Europe (wherever that takes me) and play at the highest level. He went to places that believed in his talents, were willing to work with him to get better, and are thrilled when he moves up an on.

The MLS continues to improve each year. Europe is NOT the right move for everyone but if it is done in the right way, with the right support system, and with the right clubs, I would have to say that the chances of making it to the “Bigs” or even the Powerhouse Clubs are much better with the path that Gatt took versus college/MLS.

 

I think all avenues work if the player works hard and has the talent.

If we look at the USMNT players currently plying their trade in the top two divisions in England and Germany..............we'll see all kinds of paths to get there. NCAA/MLS/Europe (Clint Dempsey for example), NCAA/Europe (Steve Cherundolo for example), Europe after high school (Jonathan Spector for example), MLS after high school & then to Europe (Tim Howard for example).

Guys just have to choose what's best for them and then go for it.

It's really hard to say what worked for Gatt will work for the next guy.................................

 

Lucky bastards.

 

I support all low ball expectations of our prospects.

 

The last thing MLS wants is players shopping from club to club. They somewhat tolerate foreign DP types and high profile US Nat types like Gil or Adu. But they are going to do everything in their power to limit the power of everyone else - especially low profile US players. If that somewhat hurts the development of US players, they don't care. They went through great pains to structure the league to limit the negotiating power of US/Canadian players in order to limit their payroll. Given the fact that there is an obvious development gap for not quite ready for prime prospects in MLS, why would you want these players to sign with MLS anyway?

 

Yup - this is the gaping gap that exists in US. Europe, Mexico and South America all have systems to transition players. Unfortunately many kids are not equipped to handle the cultural issues and most systems are designed to favor local kids.

 

those leagues are not the highest in the world but they are a stepping stone to better European leagues. They have more visibility than the MLS does . Also, correct me if i'm wrong, but it is easier for a player to get a work permit to play in the EPL if they have been already playing in Europe for a few years.

also..a player can go and sign with any club he wants to (and that wants him). With the MLS the player is told what club he can play for. For a player like Gatt there was no way for him to enter MLS. Like it was mentioned; it was either NCAA or Europe.

We don't allow players to just try out for an MLS club. A player like Gatt couldn't have just said "i think i'll drive to Columbus and try to get a trial with the Crew.

Why we still have all these drafts is just beyond me. We're over-regulating ourselves.

 

MLS's no free agency charade isn't going to last forever. It probably won't even survive the next collective bargaining agreement. If it does, it certainly won't survive the one after that.

The whole league needs to be reformed to better facilitate the path to a professional club for young American players. Getting rid of these silly drafts and allocation nonsense would go a long way to getting us there. Drafts are fine for the NFL. They have no competition. Soccer is a global game.

The problem, which is highlighted by a player like Gatt, is the path to a club for players who do not live near an MLS team is very difficult. They can either go to the NCAA where chances are they will regress or they can try their luck in Europe. Some are lucky enough to get spotted and then invited to Bradenton.

 

I have no problem with a draft for 4 yr college players. A few will make it most will not. I do not want to cut that cord. I would like a shift to occur from a hard HG rule to a loose HG rule. There is an advantage for player and team to sign young players close to their home city. I just don't want that to restrict a player from pursuing professional soccer if they live far from an MLS team, don't want to play for local MLS team, or the local MLS doesn't rate a player but another MLS team does.
Because MLS likes the DP rule so much they have developed an International Youth DP rule for players under 21. Why has the domestic player been marginalized? Why not a domestic youth
DP rule that eases some of the pursue strings on the 40K rule for those few special talents and more than 9 GenAd players. MLS has to know that there are more than 9 youth players worthy of signing youth contracts for more than 40K. Youth players can trial, earn a contract then negotiate for a solid 75K salary for 3 yrs and it still falls under the overall cap or falls under a new youth DP budget. Its only 135K more than a low ball offer and then allows every youth player in the US to train anywhere in US and MLS to sign those 15-20 a yr that they deem worthy of a higher starting salary. I don't see the down side. It offers more money to sign truly elite players across the nation without limitations without breaking the bank.

 

Child labor laws may limit the benefits of USA club academies (not sure about the law in Canada), FIFA rules regarding signing underage players may help. But not sure if American teams trying to stop an European (Mexican) team from signing a 15 year old academy player with out paying the club a fee may hold up in the court of law. It could hold if the clubs sue under Concacaf/FIFA arbitration.

So I guess as long as FIFA bylaws are in place for MLS I guess I do not have a point, Never mind.

 

I kind of disagree. Saying McBean is a Ching-type player can give someone who hasn't seen much of the kid an idea for the style he plays. I certainly appreciate that type of discussion when it comes to kids I haven't seen.

Now, there are of course some mental midgets who don't see it as a "type" comparison but more as an "achievement" comparison. That's useless stuff when talking about youth prospects, but some people just can't be helped.

 

I wish players had the freedom as you describe, but here are some possible answers as to why they are not.

Because most of the players (read employees) in the league are from the US (or Canadian) or are foreign players from US schools. If they paid based strictly on value, their payroll would go up. Many of these players have reasons (friends, family, girlfriends, spouses, language/culture comfort) that make the strongly prefer living in the US and/or Canada. MLS realizes they have to compete with the rest of the world to get players from outside US and created rules to help get these players.

As for your question on why MLS doesn't sign more players, I think there are two obvious reasons: 1) Cost factor. The further away players are from being able to step in immediately, the more speculative the investment becomes. Furthermore if MLS starts raising the costs for unproductive speculative US youth players, the more US players that are actually producing will want to get paid. This cost factor is exacerbated by 2) The big development gap. MLS also realizes they have a big gap in development and that it would be extremely costly to try develop a true minor league development system like Mexico has or major league baseball. They are also not in the least bit interested in creating a domestic transfer market. So unless they feel a kid is going to be a sure thing, they rather see them continue to develop through the free college system even though it is not ideal. While they have signed a few young home grown, I think most kids that come through the homegrown path will spend some time maturing in college. While it is true they might lose some to foreign teams, the reality is that they still have been able to retain most of the local talent.

 

Forever is a long time so the odds are in your favor. However, their model of limiting the cost of domestic talent has been working fairly well. Given that many European leagues are so deeply in the red, it could become even more attractive. The thing that works in your favor is the increase in the quality of the domestic player pool. That is what I think Traffic is counting on. If young players are good enough, they can develop players and start selling them abroad. This is also why I think MLS and second tier leagues don't work together like many would like.