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Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by Real Corona, Aug 12, 2012.
Technically, the number would be 4 if Omar Salgado wasn't injured.
Honestly, your starting to embarrass yourself with the lengths you'll go to defend SH.
It would be more of a concern if this was the second year of the U20 cycle. But seeing how its the first alot of the eligible players are 18, and thus expecting to much of them at this stage is a little much. Now if these players don't start getting significant mins next season it could be a concern. But lets also remember that a nice chunk of the last U-17 team signed abroad and took a few of the potential players that coulda been playing in MLS away.
Also Salgado was on his way to getting a lot of meaningful mins this year until he got injured.
Edit: John beat me to it.
Its simply incorrect. MLS primary reason for creation was to have a successful business.
There are numerous secondary and others presumptive reasons that obviously go along with establishing a successful US based soccer league. It can be obviously inferred that if you establish a successful US soccer league that will in turn establish a place for the American player to develop.
Spots or playing time should not be given to anyone but earned. If David Ferriera and Freddy Montero are better than any American should a lesser player be given his spot or should that be incentive for the US to strengthen their professional development system to develop players better than David Ferriera and Freddy Montero. I choose the later. It helps the game AND the American player to develop better players on the International scale rather than create a protectionist closed soccer society of players being given playing time not because they are good and beat out other players but rather than just being American. That does not help the American player one bit.
But the number goes back down to 2 if Edson Buddle and multiple Dallas forwards weren't injured.
Given that Top has only played 101 minutes all year, I don't think we should count him at all. He does have the best goals-per-minute on Dallas' team, though, and the best assists-per minute, too.
Its because they have better youth development systems. Did you just join a week ago to come on and lecture everyone who's been on this board for years how bad we are. If you want to discuss the dozens of issues or concepts on what needs to be done go ahead. It does no good to tell everyone how bad things are without offering solutions. Its ok to read alot on the other threads about the reasons why we are behind the other nations you mention and talk about how we can improve.
For comparison, Mexico's first division season only started a month ago, yet its clubs have already fielded a total of 8 Mexican players who born in 1993, plus another 6 who were born in 1994, and 1 who was born in 1995.
Whatever it is, the USA is having problems getting young Americans playing time in its home league. That would never be a problem in a country like Brazil, Spain, Germany or even Mexico. Thats my whole problem, the league wants to bring in players for popularity, but it angers me to see for example, Luke Rodgers start over Juan Agudelo last year for NYRB. We aren't going to ever be able to develop players if developing young american players isn't a priority of the MLS.
What is this? Bullying the new kid? I posted under a different user name on big soccer about five years ago. I wanted to join again, so I made a new username, thats not important though.
If we ever want to get better with our youth development, sometimes playing young americans over better international players is going to have to place. It takes place all over the world, but somehow doesn't take place in the USA. If were are being real here. We have one U-20 eligible player that is getting decent minutes this season in the MLS. Villareal has gotten a few cameo appearances at the end of games, and Top has played three games this year. Salgado is injured, but even if you add him, two U-20 eligible players getting minutes in your home league is far from impressive.
Thanks for some stats to back me up. The main problem is that you would never see Luke Rodgers take minutes away from someone like Carlos Fierro in the Mexican League. However, the coaches in the MLS don't really care about youth development of young americans, so they are going to pick the absolute best squad that they can. Their lineups are not going to be based upon anything but current form. I realize Agudelo wasn't too sharp last year, but its because he got so few minutes. He started the season with two poor games, then he was a sub for most of the rest of the season. Backe just abandoned him like he was just a disposable journeyman. If our youth system is going to get better, stuff like that can't happen.
My error then. I don't think young players get played over better players on the team that aren't from that country. There is too much at stake where each point is the difference between millions of dollars and league spots. Your premise is faulty. What does take place is where most countries limit the number of International roster spots, in the US green cards are considered American roster spots but play for other countries internationally. While your complaining about giving inferior players more playing time, I contend it should be incentive not to give American players more playing time but to develop better American players so they earn the playing time.
I agree, but not all talented young players get first team playing time, and other countries have integrated youth systems that challenge and develop players on levels below first team first division football. All this have been discussed at length in other threads here. I humbly suggest that you take a few days and read them all then come back to let us know what ideas you like and those you don't.
We all know our development system isn't fully devloped and giving American youth players playing time over others where the coaches disagree with that idea is one small aspect of the overall issue.
I too thought that Juan Agudelo is simply a better player than Luke Rogers and shouldn't earn pity minutes but in fact earned them. My further evaluation still thought Agudelo is a better talent but Rogers did in fact work better with Henry and did produce more.
Obviously Mexico is doing better at playing youngsters. But if we start counting "non-Americans" but still came through the American system we can add Najar and Fagundez to the list for MLS as well. Also "fielded" is a little vague and can be different then playing significant mins. IE McBean has been "fielded" but nothing of any significance.
I see a couple of reasons for this.
1-Mexican development systems are fully developed and are right now better at developing youth players who earn that time.
2-Most top youth Mexican players start in their system. So they are getting the best to stay home pay them well and play them in first division games. If Bijev, Pelosi, Gyau, Brooks, Oceguenda, Garza, Guido, Rodriquez, Cuevas, etc all played in MLS would definately rival or exceed Mexico's.
3-We have so many rules against allowing our nation's best to easily sign professional contracts. Mexico, Spain, Germany etc. allows any player to sign everwhere at any time. We have HG rules, GA rules, Superdraft rules, all rules that restrict playing professionally. Steve Rodriguez wanted to sign with Chivas but couldn't so signing with Tijuana. That's no way to improve playing opportunities with MLS first teams.
Villarreal scored for the Galaxy reserves today. McBean got the final 13 minutes, and Mendiola (not sure about his citizenship status yet) got 45 in a 3-2 loss.
A 17-year-old kid named Kyle Bjornethun came on in second-half stoppage for the Sounders. I know nothing about him.
Oscar Sorto also started for the Galaxy and Sebastian Velasquez came on as a sub in extra time. Dominique Dismuke was on the bench for Seattle, which is interesting since you'd think he'd be in the middle of preseason with UW.
Look, I respect your opinion, but you still think just because I have only been posting under this user name for about a week that I have no clue what people say. I have read these boards for years, probably longer than many of you.
My main problem is that we have one real level for Soccer in the USA. The USL and NASL exist, but its really not a place to loan out players since the competition really isn't that great. I think a second division needs to be developed, thats the only way that younger players are going to get playing time unless the USSF makes some sort of agreement with the MLS about playing time for young american players.
Gocha, MLS will never agree to give young players playing time that the coaches don't agree with. Never going to happen. Why don't we just take a mathematical formula to determine who plays based on age, country of birth, National Team and take the head coach out of all playing time decisions.
What we can do is to establish more money to sign elite players, eliminate silly rules that restrict professional development, improve reserve league or use USL/NASL league for larger reserve teams, hire Dutch or Spanish Youth Development Directors, Build residential training centers.
By playing young American players who haven't earned their playing time hurts the overall development of the American player. Its a false premise. Develop players the right way that earns their playing time rather than just giving them playing time because they're young does not accomplish what you think it does.
Nice catch. No Dismuke on the Huskies' roster.
In what year was Marky Delgado born?-
Nor Sorto on the CSUB roster (he was supposed to have been enrolled there): http://www.gorunners.com/SportSelect.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=13300&SPID=6318&SPSID=58057
I agree with all of it.
But this is what they say in England. They say that being around all the great foreign players, learning from the foreign players, having to compete with the foreign players..............should make the English players better. But I'm just not seeing it.
There are a lot of issues at play here. We've talked about a lot of them with regards to the business.
Another is that the playoff structure of MLS limits minutes for kids. If MLS had a single table structure like England............FCD would essentially not be playing for anything right now. They wouldn't be in danger of relegation, and they wouldn't be in contention for a high league finish. They could experiement with all the young players they wanted to experiment with. Why not? But despite being awful for most of the year, they're still in contention for a playoff spot. We've seen low playoff seeds win MLS Cup quite a bit recently (Colorado, RSL, etc.) And you aren't going to start Victor Ulloa over De Guzman, or Richard Sanchez over Kevin Hartman, or Moises Hernandez over Zach Loyd, or Bryan Leyva over Brek Shea..........while you're still "in it." It's not fair to the veterans if the players aren't ready. And the guys in the dressing room know if the kid's are ready. They know if the coach is throwing in the towel on the season. Starting Kellen Acosta over Benitez right now essentially can't happen, even though we all know Benitez is mediocre at best.
They're not mutually exclusive, if every foreign player was expelled would that automatically make those domestic players better than the ones they eliminated from the league and couldn't beat out in the first place? The English players wouldn't be better than they are by not having any foreigners in the league. Other issues are involved for the development of the US and English player. And even those issues between the two countries aren't the same. All differing data points including comparables, infrastructure, historical references, etc.. Quite frankly I'd take England's issues in a heart beat compared to our issues. Another point not related to your post. Why do so many people try to compare overriding issues of youth development to other more established countries. We have only around 20 youth under the age of 20 in the whole of MLS and we have posters questions why they don't play compared to places like Mexico where they have dozens and dozens of youth players on their payrolls. Simple statistics lead you to the conclusion based on those numbers that we can't have the same amount of youth first team minutes. Its just not comparable.
Ruben Luna loaned to San Antonia Scorpions
Looks like Top is ahead of him in the pecking order now.