I completely agree with you on the playing time aspect. Practicing benefit of practicing with pros is lost if you don't get to play in real games. However, if a kid is good enough to actually play and will play, then signing a home grown contract has less downside. Then it becomes an issue of the best fit for coaching, ability to adjust to the culture and compensation.
The benefit is not lost and therefore zero if you don't play in real games, which I may be incorrectly assuming as first team games. I agree there needs to be a better game to practice ratio but the benefit is not zero. What is a real game for a developing 17 yr old. Is an academy game a real game, a reserve game, an unofficial intrasquad scrimmage, a game vs a local college team. They are all real games.
Yup He's "getting games" right now as a kid that just turned 17. [He's been around so long that people forget how young he is/] He'll get academy games all year, reserve team games, will train all year with the first team, etc. He's competing for some bench appearances for the first team. I don't have a problem with that schedule for a 17 year old. The league has a problem with 19-20 year olds, not developing 17 year olds................................... One could argue that for the moment, Acosta is looking like the primary backup at right back. http://www.bigdsoccer.com/2012/11/12/3635436/the-fc-dallas-depth-chart That could change, though.
I would think that would change. I can't see anyone relying on a 17 yr old as primary backup at RB for Dallas without a few years of seasoning. The more MLS teams cut Developmental roster spots who in my opinion are still developing there is a huge gap in MLS developmental system. There has to be some distinction between developmental roster spots and first team roster spots. The more I see the implementation of the MLS HG program the more I'm thinking its more of a gimmick rather than an incremental step toward any real and decisive development system. To group the development and first team roster spots essentially all into one 30 man roster with the ability to change the developmental roster spots into first team roster inhibits any true development. MLS teams need all 30 roster spots with adults to attack a full MLS schedule with US Open Cup, CONCACAF, exhibitions and at the same time deal with injuries and national team call ups. I just don't see the HG program with all its limitations and roster realities as any significant step toward professional youth development. I also don't want the next bargaining agreement having a union determining the next iteration of how development should look in MLS. You posted in another thread you thought the only gateway to true development was the union bargaining for it. You're probably right but that creates more problems than it solves. We can't wait every 5 yrs for the next step in development. It needs to be a constant daily evolution for all teams. Let the marketplace decide.
Thanks for linking to my stuff Clint. Some fantastic discussion in this thread, great read. Just a couple things...Kellyn probably is more like the third string RB, but for debate's sake I didn't list players as the backup in two different positions. Acosta is very very good...their technical director, Fernando Clavijo thinks he will challenge for playing time next year and the biggest difference between Kellyn and the players who got cut is mentality. Kellyn is the captain of the U18 squad this year and plays at D-mid where I think is his best position, but he won't play there in MLS for quite some time. Regarding Leyva and Luna, I think everyone's pretty much covered every side and my thoughts have already been linked to, but I wanted to add one thing: If you expect even a 50% return rate of solid prospects panning out in MLS(at least without a few bumps in the road), you're going to be consistently disappointed.
Actually, if we get a 50% return on homegrown signings we're doing really well. We should expect a similar "failure rate" with homegrown signings as we get with draft picks. As people know, after the big name first rounders are taken (GenAds, etc.)............the failure rate is really high in the draft. The way I view the Luna cut is that he lost his spot as the "developing forward" on the roster to Jonathan Top. It certainly seemed that midway thru the year. And on this board, people should have been happy about that. Top is a USA U20 eligible player. Hey, what do you think the chances are of FCD signing Jaime Ibarra to a homegrown contract? [If people don't know Ibarra, he's SMU's #1 keeper. He was just named Conference USA Player of the Year] Some people think Richard Sanchez might be ready to take on the #2 role. Then there'd be no reason to re-sign Seitz, and we could grab the cheaper player Ibarra. Sanchez will be 19 when next season starts (and still USA eligible by the way). Hamid, Sean Johnson, etc. started challenging for the #1 keeper slot at 19 recently. Perhaps it's time.......................
50% would be astounding by world standards. For some reason many folks expect us, with our limited set ups and coaching acumen, to produce at this rate. It's non sensical and once again shows a naivete among quite a few here. As I have always said...decades...it's gonna take decades. Getting better, but a long slog still beckons.
Here is the current list of 1993s and younger, as best as I can make out. An asterisk means the player has at least one first-team league appearance. I've included the entire age cohort, but players who are not US-eligible, either because they're cap-tied to another team (I think this is just Najar) or Canadian citizens playing for Canadian teams, are struck out. Diego Fagundez is here on a P-1 and has played for the Uruguay U-20s but has expressed interest in the U.S., but the earliest he'd be eligible would be five years after he gets his green card, so I'm crossing him off as a youth prospect, at least. I'm assuming everyone else is US-eligible; corrections welcome. 1993 * Omar Salgado, VAN * Luis Gil, RSL *Jonathan Top, FCD *Jimmy McLaughlin, PHL *Jose Villareal, LAG *Cristhian Hernandez, PHL Victor Pineda, CHI Jon Kempin, SKC *Oscar Cordon, TOR *Keith Makubuya, TOR * Andy Najar, DCU * Doneil Henry, TOR Caleb Clarke, VAN 1994 Richard Sanchez, FCD Kellen Gulley, CHI Bryce Alderson, VAN 1995 *Zach Pfeffer, PHL *Jack McBean, LAG Kellyn Acosta, FCD *Diego Fagundez, NER
Are we sure about the international status of Cristhian Hernandez? I'm not sure he's US-eligible................. By the way, he's training with Real Sociedad this off-season: http://www.philadelphiaunion.com/news/2012/11/macmath-hernandez-train-everton-real-sociedad
I was only crossing out the ones I was sure weren't eligible...but looking into it, you're probably right. While the team has never confirmed it, the local bloggers all say Hernandez required an international spot, which would mean he's at least five years away from citizenship. So if we're crossing off Fagundez, we should probably cross him off, too. Do you have a source for that? The most recent news I've been able to find was on October 15, when he was reportedly in talks, but I didn't think he'd be signing officially until after the season (and there was still a chance he'd spend a year in college). And he's not listed on the senior roster. Probably nitpicking, though--when he does sign, he'll be a '94.
We knew Sorto was "in conversations" to sign a deal........................ http://www.lagalaxy.com/blog/scoops/2012/09/07/sorto-become-la-galaxys-next-homegrown-player .................but I've never seen an official announcement that he's actually signed. He's not listed on the Gals roster on their homepage, for instance.
10-15-2012 http://siriusxmsports.posterous.com/bruce-arena-la-galaxy-head-coach-told-john-ha 0:20 "Recent signing Oscar Sorto"
I've said it once, and I will say it again, this is the biggest reason players fail or become stars. With our players who go overseas it is even more important. Thanks for your comment by the way.
Sorto's signing probably won't be official until after the season and roster space opens. Galaxy could easily sign a few more HG players right now such as Javan Torre, Willie Raygoza, Drew Murphy, etc. but the Galaxy have the advantage of letting these guys develop a year or two at UCLA, UCSB, etc. but they can also practice and play with the Galaxy reserves in the college offseason. Raygoza should definitely be in the pool for the 2015 U20 WC team.
Mobi Fehr joins this thread officially now Brent Latham @BrentJavan Former U.S. U-17 Mobi Fehr has signed with MLS and will go into a lottery. Check out http://Goal.com shortly for details.
He mentions in the article that he's playing as a defensive midfielder now. As a USMNT fan, I'd rather he just develop as a CB who's good on the ball.
Yup. The lottery winner will probably do the Perry Kitchen routine with him. Try him out in a bunch of positions and see what sticks...................... Still a nice "get" for MLS. Seems kinda weird that he wouldn't just enter the draft at this point.
I would say all of the above except scrimmages are real games. Scrimmaging is certainly useful, but the intensity and conditions are not like a real game. I was referring to the post academy age players since once the season starts there are few times when teams schedule exhibition games of some sort. The focus becomes all about league. In terms of benefit, if you don't use something in a particular time you forget it. It is like taking a Spanish class but not having a chance to go somewhere where people actually speak Spanish so you can use what you learned. This is why college soccer, warts and all is better option for kids than a few reserve games and some time in pre-season exhibition games (again this doesn't include the few kids that can regularly get playing time in first team games). With the older age academy kids who could play in college the question becomes is the potential benefit of being a secondary player in a professional practice and getting to play in a lot of low level academy games worth the opportunity cost of being a primary member of a top college team and playing comparatively much higher level games in front of real crowds.
Don't know if this is the right thread, but we got an MLS youngster who set up a goal today for the USMNT against Russia.