I will truly be suprised if they rely on EPB for any significant length of time as a 17 yr old. Has there ever been a quality 17 yr old defender in MLS recently?
Is 8 International slots per team too many for MLS? Does it intentionally marginalize the American player. I don't know for sure but it is an interesting debate. Wasn't it 5 not too long ago? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MLS_International_Roster_Slots
Certainly not at centerback. When we were arguing about Miazga last season, we could come up with few examples of 18 year old CBs getting playing time (much less 17 year olds) Acosta held his own at fullback last year. SKC has to be scrambling right now to find depth. There are Stephen Keel-types available I'm sure. Tommy Meyer or somebody like that. They CAN'T plan on using EPB as the starter when Besler leaves for the World Cup. He might be a great prospect, but that doesn't mean he's ready to be a starter in the league.
A mini-profile of Serna: Serna, a product of the Rapids Academy, trained with the Rapids' first team the past two seasons, so Mastroeni knew him well. "Dillon is a player I had the opportunity to play alongside," Mastroeni said. "When he was 17, he showed a lot of promise. His work ethic and his natural talent was very evident." http://www.denverpost.com/rapids/ci_25389350/homegrown-winger-dillon-serna-shows-promise-rapids
So the number of foreign players allowed on a MLS roster would have no impact on US professional player development? I could take the concept to an silly extreme to prove it easily could by increasing the International slots per team to 30 or 15 or 10. At some tipping point it would reach critical mass and have significant impact on development. Is 8 too high or is it some other number where the algorithim inherently tips the balance in the emphasis of the international player over the American player. I thought I remember reading something years ago that the minutes played by American players showed a significant decrease since the league's inception. I would love for some MLS geek to figure out the analytics of the number of first team minutes per national designation since 1996. I don't think its a major problem right now but we have to be mindful of how roster representation impacts American minutes played through the years.
How can you say this with such certainty? Because it's never happened in MLS before? Unless of course you've been watching SKC training sessions. Age is just a number. If he's ready he's ready. There must be a strong reason Juventus want to buy him now.
You think SKC's plan is to start a 17 year old at CB with no safety net available? In the CCL as well? They have to sign somebody to COMPETE with EPB. Maybe Olum or some other guy on the roster can move over to CB. Personally I think the kid could be the best centerback prospect in the world and not be ready yet. I keep calling him a 17 year old..............but I believe that at the moment he's still only 16. I believe his birthday is late April. It's the mental aspect of the game I worry about. Even if he is physically ready (which I don't believe he quite is yet), the centerback position isn't one where you can "learn on the job" too well without costing your team games. I would looooooooooooooooooooooove to be proved wrong.
Juventus doesn't want him for first team minutes. Juventus thinks he's just as good of a professional prospect as Sporting KC does. I have seen enough and through the process of deductive reasoning and thourough knowledge of historical human and soccer development pretty much know he is not ready for first team minutes for the MLS cup champions with any confidence in him contributing to ongoing team success.
Doesn't matter when they intend on giving him first team minutes, they want to sign him now. Why? I'm curious, where have you seen enough of him?
There was some player centric video someone posted here then there was some on SKC site on MLS.com, then there was some videos posted on USSoccer. He's just a kid. He looks every bit of 16 yrs old. That's like saying Haji Wright should be starting in MLS because he's so good. Age is just a number. Darn straight it is. There's alot of reasons why 16-17 yr olds don't start against men and I don't need to watch every player in detail to know why.
In regards to center back, in my opinion, there are numerous things that need to be observed to even come close to predicting a player's future. These things are not usually found in highlight videos or puff pieces by club teams and the US Soccer Federation. What angle does he take to close down? Does he head the ball back to his keeper when needed? How is he under pressure on the ball? How disciplined is he with his tackling? How is his communication with other defenders? How is he tactically? Etc, etc. I have no idea if he's ready or not. I'm just saying that 17 year olds debut around the world, regardless of position, and just maybe Erik is too. To say with that much conviction he is not ready without watching him in real games in multiple different situations is not prudent.
Players start and contribute as 16-17 yr old center backs all over the world? I guess I'm wrong then.
These are just recent examples, and google knows how many others debuted in South America. If you're ready, you're ready. Interestingly enough, our own Deandre Yedlin appears on the list that helped me compile this. http://outsideoftheboot.com/2014/01/09/100-best-young-players-watch-2014-defenders-30-21/ Raphael Varane - 16 - Lens Marquinos - 16 - Corinthians Karim Rekik - 16 - Manchester City Jonathan Tah - 17 - Hamburg Doria - 17 - Botafogo Bjorn Engels - 17 - Club Brugge Uroš Spajić - 17 - Red Star Belgrade Aymeric Laporte - 17 - Athletic Bilbao Calum Chambers - 17 - Southampton Samuel Umtiti - 17 - Olympique Lyon Rio Ferdinand - 17 - West Ham Alessandro Nesta - 17 - Lazio Paolo Maldini - 17 - AC Milan
The ages you list aren't the ages that is on the link. Rekik is a 16 yr old starting for Man City. Like I said if all these CBs are starting for their clubs as 16-17 yr olds I'm wrong. I just don't think they are. If you're saying that a 16-17 yr old CB can make their first team debut that's obviously true. It seems like you are creeping away from the specifics of the post, but hey that's Big Soccer and debate in a nut shell. JAB is listed too.
The ages on the link are irrelevant, as those are their current ages. The fact is, 16-17 year olds debut at CB around the world...
Debut yes, but most of these guys were almost 18 when they made their first start only some continued/continue to be starters after their debut. I think EPB is likely to make his MLS debut this season but SKC are probably not counting on him to be a regular starter.
Its relevant to the point I made. See what you just did thinking I wouldn't catch it. You said debut......I never said that. Ok if your list is correct I will concede 17 yr old centre backs get a few first team minutes.
You said "start and contribute". Contribute is very debatable, but how many center backs start a game on the bench and sub in?
That's why we're debating it. A debut to me is not contributing. I said I do not believe SKC will rely on EPB for any length of time due to his inexperience. If he plays let's say 4 consecutive games this season I will rep your post pointing that out to me.
I'd prefer it to see it at 5 again, especially since it's pretty easy for some to acquire a Green Card like Robbie Keane or Juninho on the Galaxy for example. It'd free up extra roster spots per team for Americans (which is a bonus), but it'd make MLS clubs spend/scout more wisely on their foreign spots than some of the garbage we have seen them sign to fill out a roster because some guy spent a few years in Ligue 2. Usually that 7th or 8th foreign is just a waste. Americans also don't count as foreign players on Canadian club rosters, Canadians count as foreign on American clubs due to labor laws.
The only problem would be if the league became so good and there was a gap between MLS and the next highest level which hindered their ability to become elite players.
He might be ready. He's pretty advanced player for his age. He's already been moved up to the U-20 National Team this early in the cycle. That doesn't mean that he is ready to start yet for SKC, but he could be. He's one of the best 17 year old CB's that we've ever seen come out of the USA. Its possible that he could be ready for playing time.
Yeah, I agree. They probably weren't counting on him to be a regular starter. With Besler away at the World Cup, there plan was probably to slot in Opara next to Collin until Besler was back. Now that Opara went down for the season, they might need to count on EPB. This might be a great thing for SKC. Give the kid a chance, and see where he is. They can always sign another CB if he's not ready to start. I also think its likely that Besler doesn't come back to SKC after the World Cup. I think he's headed for Europe in the summer window. They will probably need another starting CB. If EPB can emerge as that, it could help fill the void if Besler leaves.