Goff (above) has an accurate statement of FIFA's past practice. There is NO reason right now to think that they will vary it this time around. However, unless FIFA acts (which they should), cards will carry over. There is a reason we call next summer's tournement the "World Cup Finals" and not just the "World Cup" - it's the finals of a very long and complex tournement in which most every nation in the world competes. It IS, however, the same competition. This explains why FIFA issues an amnisty (see link below) instead of just saying nothing and having cards automatically wiped clean by operation of the rules. http://www.fifa.com/newscentre/news/newsid=71634.html
This is like the Freddy Adu Cap-tied argument. The argument isn't about what happens in the "real world" (because that's right the yellow cards are wiped clean before the WC every cycle)...the argument is about the wording of the rules. The rules say that the yellow card suspensions carry over...FIFA usually grants an amnesty despite this (so they don't carry over). The argument is between those that somehow think the rules are for them not to carry over and between myself (and others?) who say that they only are wiped clean because FIFA chooses to use their exemption option each time (ie a special statement of amnesty).
I think all cards should be tossed out heading into the finals. Not all teams have to play the same number of games in qualifying. So it really does give the teams that play fewer games an advantage if they are not tossed. Also, it can ruin the last round of qualifying in terms of competitiveness. The USA can sit Donovan just to avoid him getting a yellow. That's not fair to Honduras or Costa Rica in making the last match competitive. If every team played the same number of games and if all the different federations had the same qualifying format, you would have a point. But they don't. It's only fair to give everyone a clean slate entering into the tournament
For the record, Wahl corrected himself. Only an ejection from Wednesday's game would mean a suspension for the 1st game of the WC
Not according to the rules...but yes, that will probably be correct because FIFA will surely do what they always do and wipe the slate clean. (Do you see the distinction here?)
FIFA doesn't want to give the go-ahead for a player on a previous yellow in WCQ to commit a yellow-card offense in the final game and have it be "free of charge", so to speak. But they're stuck because they also want honest effort and a first-string lineup from the already-qualified teams in the final game. So they go through this "wink-wink, nudge-nudge" every time.
exactly. and Fifa actually (imo) does a decent job of running/administering their business -- and these "wink-wink, nudge-nudge" examples are reasonable (if somewhat confusing/strange) proof of that.
If you don't believe US Soccer and you don't trust FIFA, ok, trust me: I'm betting my 1 (one) hard-earned US dollar on the following - yellow cards from WCQ will not carry over to World Cup. Period. Amen. Finita.
There's no dispute that yellow cards from WCQ will not carry over to the World Cup. The dispute is about whether accumulation of yellow card suspensions will carry over. In general, it is felt that FIFA will follow their usual practice and give an amnesty, but their only obligation to do so is historical practice.
I'm betting my 1 (one) hard-earned US dollar on the following - yellow cards from WCQ will not carry over to World Cup, and it includes accumulation of yellow card suspensions.
I believe you have it right, but I don't think U.S. Soccer would be officially announcing it on its web site if it didn't have word from FIFA that this would be the case. And, if you think about it, the wiping of yellows (even the second yellow in the last match) by FIFA has got to be close to automatic. The text of the rule says FIFA can wipe the slate clean to account for the dispropriationate number of matches played by the various federations. A EUFA team can qualify in 8 mathces. A team in Africa can qualify with twelve matches. A team in Asia may need 28 matches to qualify. Once the finals start, I think it would be inappropriate to treat a player from Camaroon, who has succesfully played on a caution for 27 games without drawing a suspension, the same as a player from Europe who has made it through 7. If all regions played a commensurate or close to commensurate number of matches in the preliminary competition, perhaps an argument could be made for FIFA not to exercise its authority in this regard. But, given the firmness with which U.S. Soccer has announced the decision, I'm sure they have something official from FIFA. And, moreover, the timing seems right too -- if FIFA has decided to exercise its discretion, it would seem only right that it announce it before the last week of matchdays so the teams would understand their options in playing players sitting on cautions. I'd add one other thought -- FIFA has taken the last matchday very seriously traditionally, attempting to avoid any collusion and ensuring that competitive balance in groups and regions is adhered to. One incident of this decision is to send all matches off in any given region at the same time on the last match day, so that teams cannot scoreboard watch to make decisions on the pitch, or at least it's harder. I'm sure, for example, FIFA wants a competitive U.S./CR game, given its implications to other teams. So, it would be entirely in keeping with FIFA's views in this area for it to announce its intention to wipe yellows before the last matchday to ensure no team sits players due to concern with drawing a second-yellow suspension.
We're not saying that they will...FIFA will surely exercise their option to wipe the slate clean like they always do. Your disconnect here is that the rules say explicitly that those yellow card suspensions WILL carry over (except in the case of the amnesty...which I think we all agree will happen). The argument is one of semantics and what the rules actually say...not what is going to be the end result.
No, the USSF may have some unofficial word, but there will be no "official" statement until at least around the time of the draw...if not a few weeks prior to the WC itself. That's how it's been in the previous cycles. Your second point may be the reason for the "unofficial" word to the feds, but they don't want to encourage players to feel free to earn another yellow either...Which is why they wait to give the official decision imo (or it could also be because the body that makes the official decision doesn't meet 'til around the time of the Draw or later ).
I'm still unsold on WCQ and WC being one competition. Actually i believe they are two different competitions, somebody already mentioned here that WCQ campaign is run by regional associations, has different format, has its own draws. WC is run by FIFA, will have its own draw in December. TV deals are set by different governing bodies etc. etc. Why would we consider WCQ and WC the same competition? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_cup_qualifying
Because they ARE the same competition. As someone else mentioned already, the WC Finals are the Final round of the competition. FIFA may not directly organize and run the WCQ matches, but they do oversee them and they are part of one big competition along with the WC Finals. Also, as I have stated already, FIFA wouldn't need to come out with their amnesty statement every cycle like they always do if the two were considered different competitions.
How about MLS regular season and playoffs? Regional championships which are in fact preliminaries for Confed Cup? Are they the same competitions?
As already posted here, the link in this post is an "amnesty" like I'm talking about...(they wouldn't need to make a decision and come out with these statements every time if the rules and competition definitions were as you think they are) from that link...
AFAIK, MLS regular season and play-offs ARE the same competition (with regards to cards carrying over)... per the regional championships and Confed Cup, I would say they are different competitions, but I'm not positive about how the cards carry over in that respect...
I think MLS regular season and playoffs are two different competitions - different schedules, format, different prizes. IIRC a winner of regular season is called a winner of Supporter's Shield while playoffs winner is called MLS Cup winner which means each year there could be two winners (one for SS, one for MC). And yellow cards from MLS regular season won't carry over to playoffs according to this information: Card Suspensions Red card and caution point accumulation suspensions collected in Regular Season Games shall be served in a Player's next Regular Season Game. Any suspensions for yellow card points earned in a Player's last Regular Season Game will not carry over into the Playoffs, or into the next League Season. However, the applicable fine will be collected in the current Season. Any Players who receives a red card in his last Game of the Season (Regular Season or Playoffs), will serve the one Game suspension during their next Game (whether it's during the Playoffs, Championship Game, or in the next Regular Season Game of the following season). All red card and caution point suspensions will, if necessary, follow a Player to a new Team. All fines associated with cautions or send-offs will be collected in the current season (before the calendar year expires). Suspension Carry-Overs Any suspensions for yellow cards earned in a player's last Regular Season Game shall not carry over into the Playoffs or into the next League Season. However, the applicable fine will be collected in the current Season. Players who receive a red card in their last Game of the Season (Regular Season, Playoff or Cup) shall serve the one-game suspension during their next Game (whether it is during the Playoffs, Championship Game, or the next League Regular Season Game). All red card suspensions will, if necessary, follow a Player to a new team for the next League Season. http://web.mlsnet.com/stats/discipline.jsp