Yellow card suspensions do not carry over to World Cup finals

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by tab5g, Oct 12, 2009.

  1. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

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    per the USMNT blog:
    http://www.ussoccer.com/Social/MNT-...&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest



  2. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

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    I'm almost convinced. Would still like to see it on FIFA letterhead. This is FIFA, we may have a body, but I want to see it buried.
  3. Roehl Sybing

    Roehl Sybing Member

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    Excellent. This clears up a lot of confusion going on around here.
  4. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

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    you're not convinced that US Soccer got this news/ruling from Fifa?

    go ahead and call/write US Soccer and ask them to send you a copy of what they are citing.

    (I doubt the blog is just posting this without some true/firm knowledge. I suppose they could have it wrong, but that seems incredibly unlikely.)


  5. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

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    I am sure they are telling the truth and/or don't want to deceive. Auditors are taught to be skeptical and go to the original source for evidence. Would be great if they link to the FIFA ruling instead of putting out the statement.

    How many times do folks on BS reply with "Link?"
  6. Bluecat82

    Bluecat82 Member+

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    Preferably with the additional precautions of a stake driven through its heart and about six pounds of garlic stuffed in its mouth...
  7. Roehl Sybing

    Roehl Sybing Member

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    It's not a ruling, I don't think. It seems to me it's more a convention they've been following for at least the last few World Cups.
  8. dsp87260

    dsp87260 New Member

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    Note entirely...

    I don't believe that this is "official" yet...

    unless there's been a rule change that I'm unaware of, yellow card suspensions do carry over...it's just that every World Cup (that I've watched...since 1994) FIFA gets together and makes a statement of amnesty or some such thing that disregards the yellows.

    I expect that they will come out and make such a statement again and the yellow cards won't carry over, but until they "officially" state that then technically they do carry over.

    I'm guessing that ussocer.com is going on the logical assumption that FIFA will carry on as it has with it's ruling every 4 years to wipe the slate clean.

    I would also guess (barring someone showing me the wording of the rules that says otherwise) that FIFA has not changed it's rules and is leaving them as they are on purpose just in case they ever feel the desire to enforce the yellow cards carrying over.
  9. dsp87260

    dsp87260 New Member

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    Exactly...AFAIK the rules state that the yellow card suspensions do carry over, but the tradition has been to wipe the slate clean (but still keep the rules as they are).


    edit: basically it lets FIFA do whatever they want in the situation...
  10. Roehl Sybing

    Roehl Sybing Member

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    Is that the least bit true? Link?
  11. Adam Zebrowski

    Adam Zebrowski New Member

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    red cards suspensions would need to be served, and historically the yellows are forgiven, as fifa wants a clean slate to start off the tourney
  12. dsp87260

    dsp87260 New Member

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    As far as I know (AFAIK) it's true, but it's been a while since I read the rules...I'm not inclined to do so at the moment but if anyone wants to I believe the rules are available in pdf form somewhere on the FIFA site...

    I do remember in previous cycles that FIFA would come out and make some sort of statement about the yellow cards prior to each World Cup...I want to say a few weeks before the start, but it could have been as early as the WC Draw each preceding December...I seem to remember at least in one of these previous cycles (1994-2006) they were still talking about whether or not the yellow cards would be waived within a few weeks of the Cup.

    Again, it's my understanding that this ambiguity is because the rules say that the yellow card suspensions carry over, but the tradition is to forgive them and wipe the slate clean.
  13. superdave

    superdave Member+

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    I've never heard of a soccer competition in which yellow card suspensions carry over. I'm not saying it's never happened, just that I've never heard of it.
  14. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

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    it happened in the Euros last summer... Arshavin missed the first two matches of the group stage due to a suspension from qualifying


    also happened with Vidic in the club world cup last season, he couldnt play the champions league match first leg of the knockout round (which was against Inter)
  15. Craig P

    Craig P BigSoccer Supporter

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    That's a different situation. If he missed two matches, it wasn't a yellow card suspension.

    As has been noted, red card suspensions will carry over.
  16. pirozhok

    pirozhok Member

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    FIFA Disciplinary Code:
    http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/fifa_dc_en_34118.pdf

    Article 36 Carrying over cautions
    1. Cautions received during one competition are not carried over to
    another competition.

    2. They are, however, carried over from one round to the next in the same
    competition. The Disciplinary Committee may exceptionally depart
    from this rule before the start of a particular competition. This provision
    is subject to art. 37.
    Article 37 Cancellation of cautions
    1. Upon its own initiative or at the request of a confederation, the Disciplinary
    Committee may cancel cautions that have not resulted in an
    expulsion so as to restore the balance among several teams that have
    not played the same number of matches during the fi rst round of a
    competition, or in other exceptional circumstances.
    2. In any case, the committee may do this only once in any competition.
    3. The Disciplinary Committee’s decision is fi nal.
    Article 38 Carrying over match suspensions
    1. As a general rule, every match suspension (of players and other persons)
    is carried over from one round to the next in the same competition.
    2. Match suspensions in relation to an expulsion pronounced on a player
    outside of a competition (separate match[es]) or not served during the
    competition for which they were intended (elimination or the last
    match in the competition) are carried over as follows:
    a) FIFA World Cup™: carried over to the representative team’s subsequent
    offi cial match;
    b) competitions subject to an age limit: carried over to the representative
    team’s subsequent offi cial match (whether subject to age
    limit or not);
    c) FIFA Confederations Cup: carried over to the representative team’s
    subsequent offi cial match;
    d) FIFA Club World Cup: carried over to club competitions at confederation
    level;
    e) confederation club competitions leading to qualifi cation for the
    FIFA Club World Cup: carried over to the FIFA Club World Cup;
    f) confederation competitions for representative teams: carried over
    to the representative team’s subsequent offi cial match in a competition
    organised by FIFA;
    g) competitions in which teams have been chosen in accordance
    with certain criteria (cultural, geographical, historical etc.): if the
    regulations of these competitions refer to the FIFA regulations for
    disciplinary sanctions, the suspension is carried over to the representative
    team’s subsequent offi cial match;
    h) friendly matches: carried over to the representative team’s subsequent
    friendly match.
    3. If a representative team is hosting a fi nal competition and is consequently
    not required to participate in qualifying matches to reach the
    fi nal competition of this tournament and its next offi cial match is in
    that fi nal competition, any match suspension pronounced in accordance
    with par. 2 of this article shall be carried over to the representative
    team’s next friendly match.
    4. Match suspensions resulting from several cautions issued to a player
    in different matches of the same competition are never carried over
    to another competition.

    Now let's discuss if WCQ and WC are different competitions or should be considered one?
  17. dsp87260

    dsp87260 New Member

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    I'm not sure if you're trying to refute my point or back me up, but I hope you're trying to back me up (that yellows carry over) because the rules as you just posted show that I'm correct...

    WCQ and the WC are not considered to be different competitions. The WC is simply the next round from the WCQ (ie the same competition).

    Also, as I stated, "The Disciplinary Committee may exceptionally depart
    from this rule before the start of a particular competition."...and they traditionally do.
  18. pirozhok

    pirozhok Member

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    WCQ and WC have separate draws, different format, not sure they are considered one competition.
  19. djramone

    djramone Member

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    WCQ are also run by the individual federations, while the WC is run by FIFA...
  20. dsp87260

    dsp87260 New Member

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    I disagree, the WCQ may be organized by the Confederations, but FIFA still oversees them...they're the same competition.

    You also have to ask yourself why there's always a statement about the yellow card amnesty from FIFA before every World Cup...that's explained right there under his red underlined quotation of the rules.

    I wasn't 100% positive before, but seeing those rules posted now I'm absolutely sure.

    "Officially" the yellows carry over, "unofficially" (at least until the statement from FIFA) they are wiped clean every cycle.
  21. pirozhok

    pirozhok Member

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    Based on historical data we have to believe what US Soccer said - yellow cards from WCQ won't carry over to WC.
  22. dsp87260

    dsp87260 New Member

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    That "historical data" is that fact that FIFA comes out with their "amnesty" statement prior to every World Cup...like I said.

    It may simply be semantics, because the cards are wiped every cycle...but it's not the rules that say they are wiped...it's the provision that allows FIFA to wipe them as an "exception."

    For all intents and purposes...for less confusion...they should just change the wording to read what you guys are saying because that's the end result anyway, but I think they don't do that because they want to have the option of not wiping them clean if they ever decide that. (Again, the way it is now they can just do whatever they want with regards to the yellows...which is usually to wipe the slate clean as an "amnesty" or "exception" to the rule.)
  23. Craig P

    Craig P BigSoccer Supporter

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    Let's be careful with terminology here. The issue is not with the cards themselves being wiped; that happens automatically. Nor is the issue with whether red card suspensions carry over; they certainly will. The issue is only with whether yellow card suspensions incurred by a caution in the final qualification game carry over. By the rules, they appear to do so, but historically FIFA has always negated them.
  24. pirozhok

    pirozhok Member

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    I think FIFA has simple reason to cancel yellow cards prior to WC -
    WC is a major business event, one of the biggest (if not the biggest) show on Earth, FIFA needs to have all stars on the pitch from the game 1. Ronaldo or Messi missing even 1 game could mean lower ratings.
  25. Winoman

    Winoman Drinkin' Wine Spo-De-O-De!

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    Here is from Steven Goff's Soccer Insider:

    The entire article is here: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/soccerinsider/

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