Re: Local Television Partner for 2011? I'll watch the games if the ownership shows that they are trying to win. I supported them during the post-Malone/Stockton slump because it looked like they were trying to make deals and pick up players to improve. Now? They trade away players for luxury cap relief and the team loses as a result.
Re: Local Television Partner for 2011? They're 6th in the league in payroll. They traded away Eric Maynor. You can't honestly believe that keeping Eric Maynor makes the Jazz a true contender, can you? They traded for Al Jefferson with the money they saved, anyway. Using this argument, RSL isn't trying to win because they traded away the first rounder for money. It's an unfair criticism. If you want to say the Jazz have made bad moves, fine. But they're pretty clearly trying to win.
Re: Local Television Partner for 2011? Don't forget Ronnie Brewer. Two trades that were done to stay below the luxury tax limit - not to better the team. RSL's case is totally different. They didn't trade their pick for cash - they traded it for allocation money which allows you the team to exceed the salary cap. If they had kept the pick, they would have had to cut a player or trade another away for allocation money.
Re: Local Television Partner for 2011? They got a first rounder in return for Ronnie Brewer, and Memphis actually renounced his rights, he was so worthless to them (he only played in 5 games due to a hamstring injury). Isn't a first round pick from the Grizzlies worth a half season of Ronnie Brewer? At no point did they ever get below the luxury tax limit. What allowed the team to trade for Jefferson this off-season? The Ronnie Brewer first rounder, and the salary room saved by the Maynor trade. Just as the salary room left by Yura's departure and the Seitz trade allowed for us to sign Sabo. Listen, I love both franchises. I have season tickets to both RSL and the Jazz. I just find that, for some reason, there's this fight in between fans of each team, and it's not always for rational reasons.
Re: Local Television Partner for 2011? If you honestly think the Jazz are "trying to win" then explain to me why they have had the same problem year after year. They will not, for whatever reason, get a big guy that actually plays big on both ends of the court. These guys, obviously, cost a bit more money. But, the Spazz never go after them (seriously, at least). No, instead they pickup Boozer 2.0... er I mean Jefferson and have players like AK47 and CJ Miles as pieces around them. On top of all this, ITS THE NBA!!! If there was a league in this country that was obviousy setup in a way to cater to the teams from the bigger cities its the NBA. The Jazz managment has an incredibly committed fanbase here in Utah. For the life of me, I dont know why. I turn on the tv to watch and I swear its the same post Malone/Stockton team every time. The management knows if they make playoffs, they can go into the black and have a team that is decent enough to win a series or two. I guarantee they wont, unless there is a serious change in philosophy, see the NBA finals for 10-15 years. Nothing points to them making those steps needed.
Re: Local Television Partner for 2011? I guess while we are on the subject of the Jazz I will openly admit that I am a fairweather Jazz fan. I simply don't like the sport of basketball enough to watch my team go season after season without ever improving.
Re: Local Television Partner for 2011? True. And a good point I might add. I guess, GUESS, the only way we'd get HD road games is if the broadcast is in HD and we're lucky to get that particular HD channel. But, you never know. Things MAY change. But, we can still dream for right now huh?
Re: Local Television Partner for 2011? There aren't 5 of these guys in the NBA. Let's see: Howard. Gasol. KG. Duncan? Every other big who's good offensively is pretty limited defensively. And they simply aren't available to get, either by trade or in free agency. Who do you seriously suggest? Look, I agree with you. We're probably not going to get to the NBA finals in the next 10-15 years (you need two superstars). The core around Deron needs to improve, and Deron's a 2nd guy on a championship team anyway. The NBA caters to large markets. But, short of tanking and openly gunning for a high draft pick, there simply aren't options available. The CBA won't allow the Jazz to sign big (read: good) free agents, and besides, no excellent free agent is going to sign with us, it's Utah. We can't make the trade that would take the Jazz over the hump, salaries have to match, and it's not as if teams just give away superstars. Indiana isn't trading Danny Granger for AK. (And when teams do trade superstars, they give away expiring stars that immediately sign extensions in big markets. See: Melo, KG, Gasol, Shaq.) The rules of the league prevent them from doing what you demand. It's simply unfair to blame management. For some reason, each fanbase has the inability to see the good in the other. I hear from Jazz fans all the time when wearing my RSL gear: "Oh, you like RSL? Didn't they lose in the first round this year?" "Yeah, but we had a 25 game home winning streak, and won the championship last year." "Well but you were the 8 seed, barely made the playoffs. Oh and why is there an offsides rule?" It's just slightly disappointing. Yeah, the Jazz are probably not going to win the championship soon. Should we all go sell our souls, become fans of the Heat and go for the maximum utils?
Re: Local Television Partner for 2011? As an impartial observer, the annual identity crisis/meltdown of the average Jazz fan never ceases to entertain me. I say the same thing about the Jazz every year and I'll say it again: The Jazz will not be in a championship discussion until two things happen. 1) They get a coach who doesn't believe that you can win playing the kind of basketball that was played 25 years ago. 2) They start bringing in players who care about defense. I hate the Lakers more than anyone, but you've got to hand it to them - they are consistently one of the best defenses in the NBA. Look it up. And Kobe is a terrific defender. Defense wins championships - always has, always will. You can't trade pick-and-rolls for layups on the other end and expect to win in the playoffs.
Re: Local Television Partner for 2011? Look who's won championships for the last decade: Phil Jackson, Doc Rivers, Gregg Popovich, Larry Brown, Pat Riley. 4 of the 5 are the oldest coaches in the league, and Doc is known as an old-school kind of coach. Per your request, I looked up the Lakers' defensive rank for their championships since 1980. Here we go: 1980 - 9th of 23 1982 - 10th of 23 1985 - 7th of 23 1987 - 7th of 23 1988 - 9th of 23 2000 - 1st of 29 2001 - 21st of 29 2002 - 7th of 29 2009 - 6th of 30 2010 - 4th of 30 As usual, the meme of "defense wins championships" is an oversimplification. You need, unsurprisingly, a good mix of both offense and defense to succeed. The Jazz were 10th in the NBA last year defensively. Since the merger, 6 teams have won NBA championships with equal or lesser defensive rankings. It's unlikely, but possible.
Re: Local Television Partner for 2011? I dont see the point of cheering for a team that is in a league where you can only truly win one thing and your team has about a 5% chance (and thats being generous) of winning it. The NFL is great because the love is spread around. Different teams from different backgrounds win. Yeah, the same teams get there a lot. But who the hell thought the Cardinals and Saints would ever be in the superbowl. MLB falls victim to the same issue, though I would argue not to the same degree that the NBA does. Teams like Tampa Bay and San Fran can win the thing. Its not always those Yankees(sadly). Hockey is just ********ing awesome. Sure, there are a lot of stacked teams and the winners seem to be (roughly) from the same group. But at least the sport is incredible to watch. Cant say the same thing about the freak of nature basketball players that go from being "strong" to having some of the smallest feet in the world. The NBA is a joke. How people support it outside the 4-5 cities that win is beyond me. I dont hate the Jazz. Just like every other kid my age, they were the sports franchise I loved with all my heart. It was that much more painful as that guy in red wearing #23 tore out it out. Now I view him as an absolute legend, but at the time... not so much. This thread has really gone off the deep end, but my point is this: The NBA isnt rigged, all the way at least, but with how its setup there is no reason to watch if you arent a fan of a big city/market team. There is 1 thing you can win in the league. nobody gives a shit about where you finish in the regular season. Nobody gives a shit about attendance records. There isnt international competition between other "clubs". Its all about the playoffs and the championship at the end. Given that it is a best of 7 setup, it will always go to the big market team. Jazz fans are delusional. Great that you have dedication, but you are delusional as a whole. My Vikings or my brother's Bills have a better chance at winning a super bowl than the Jazz do at winning the NBA title.
Re: Local Television Partner for 2011? Because winning isn't everything, sometimes the ride itself is fun. Yeah, the Jazz aren't going to win, but do the Cavs fans who became Heat fans this season really feel that much better if they win? It's a hollow victory. Hell, why support RSL before 2009? They're not going to win anyway. Last year's RSL season was more fun, for me, than 2009. The CCL has about 3% to do with that. Much more of my enjoyment was the success of the team at home, the community around the team (LBR, etc.), our style of play, and that all of our players are such cool personalities who are fun to watch. I find most of those same characteristics in Jazz games. I get why people don't watch the NBA: refereeing, parity, and the CBA are all big issues. The regular season is too long. Sports fandom itself is a big waste of time. But to not watch the Jazz specifically, because they're allegedly not trying to win, is misguided.
Re: Local Television Partner for 2011? in 5 years RSL managed to do what the jazz havent done in 25+. i cant stand the NBA, sure i like basketball, i like the sport and the thrills of the sport, but i cant ********ing stand the NBA. if you arent a fan of: Lakers, Celtics, Heat (now), Spurs or a MAJOR market team like new york/jersey than you have no hope of your team ever winning a championship. now that i have become a "fan" of the blazers (i cheer for them) i am much less of a jazz fan. ever since malone, stockton and hornacek left i've found myself hating what the jazz have become. sure deron is great, but god the team seems like it is such a moody freaking bunch. one moment their a big happy family and the next they are all a bunch whiny bitches on their periods. the NBA is a bunch of crap and EVERYONE knows it. cant stand how boring baseball is, hate MLB. NHL is cool, like to catch a game every now and then, but i never go out of my way to watch it. love football, love to watch the NFL, hate all the prima-donnas. college football is and probably always will be my favorite sport outside of soccer, despite the BCS bullshit.
Re: Local Television Partner for 2011? What I was meaning by my post is that while the ride can be fun with all sport teams, the end result is much more determined in the NBA than any other sport. While I also "love the ride" of a season, what keeps you coming back (especially during slumps) is that things can get better. I feel the Jazz have hit the ceiling and nothing out there suggests they can break it. RSL, on the other hand, plays in a league which doesnt (at least not as extreme as the NBA) essentially elimiante all but a couple of the teams before it even starts. Honestly, who the hell thinks the Jazz could win the NBA Playoffs? Even after the "high" of bringing in Boozer 2.0 and Raja Bell, who honestly thought they could hang with the LA's, Boston's, Miami's, etc. NOBODY Maybe I am a fair weather fan. Maybe I like it if my team actually has a chance to win something. Does that make me less of a fan? I see no point supporting a team/league like the Jazz/NBA. I know this is coming so I will address it now: The EPL has the same winner over and over (as do many euro soccer leagues) so whats the point of watching them? - response - There is more than one trophy in each league Taking 4th in the EPL is actually an amazing thing... losing in the semis of the NBA playoffs is useless Promotion/Relegation keeps you entertained even if your team is in 17th... especially if your team is in 17th I should say. etc The NBA has one "trophy" and nothing else. There is really no other reason to play/watch that game/league, is there? I even like basketball (though not anywhere near the love I have for soccer) but I just cant stand it. Its pointless
Re: Local Television Partner for 2011? ^^^^^^^THIS x100000000000000000000000. seriously, its the thing i hate about the NBA, its such a foregone conclusion that there is hardly any point in watching it. i literally think of ricky bobby when it comes to the NBA, "you're either first or you're last." you are either 1 of a handful (5 at most) teams who has a chance to win the championship at the end of the year or your nobody (the other 25 teams). somebody will say "well then whats the point of even having the league", well its because people want to get rich and NBA players, executives, owners and associates get rich and because people are lemmings and will cheer for a team no matter what (ie spend $$$$$). there is literally NOTHING else in the NBA for fans. you're team isnt going to get anything else, there are no alternate competitions, no other trophies, nothing. at least college basketball has a ton of other things to cheer for, conference championships, other tournaments, etc...outside the NCAA tourny.
Re: Local Television Partner for 2011? and just like that: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700108714/KSL-Utah-Jazz-coach-Jerry-Sloan-to-resign.html the Jazz have become a totally different team I wont recognize this Jazz team. Sloan has been there longer than I have been alive. This is a weird day in Utah sports history - I will believe this when I see it.... scratch that, I doubt I'll even believe it then-
Re: Local Television Partner for 2011? just saw this and was about to post it, im just shocked. that team is dead to me now, if sloan was pushed out the door in any way i will just be flabbergasted. if sloan is resigning on his own, for personal reasons, than ok, im fine with that. from the article about what happened after the game last, im getting the impression that he's just fed up with the attitudes on the team. deron williams has become a joke, yes he's amazing, probably the best pg in the game, but he's becoming less of a leader after every game. the jazz have become everything thats wrong with the NBA. and johnson resigning along with him? ya, thats a red flag that some shit is happening with the team. johnson was the heir apparent and now the jazz are ********ed. it will be interesting to see who they throw in the fire. tyrone corbin? EDIT: quick trivia. who is the ONLY professional coach, in the WHOLE WORLD, who has coached with one team longer than Jerry Sloan?
Re: Local Television Partner for 2011? Ding Ding Ding! winna winna winna. Sir Alex is the only coach in any professional sport worldwide to be the head coach of one team for longer, he joined Man U in 1986 as head coach, Sloan was head coach of the Jazz in 1988.
Re: Local Television Partner for 2011? D-Will is a little bitch If the stories are true that he said "me or him" then the guy has crossed the line. I understand being frustrated and wanting to improve, but to push out a ********ing legend is a joke. I wanna go to the next Jazz game and applaud Sloan (if he even gets another game) and boo the shit out of D-Will. Know your place Williams, nobody is bigger than the team
Re: Local Television Partner for 2011? I happen to be going tomorrow night. I haven't paid to see the Jazz in years, but a friend who I sometimes take to RSL and Ute games is taking me to the Jazz-Suns games. Going to be interesting to see the crowd response during introductions.
FYI, I've confirmed through some of my contacts in the local sports media that indeed it was Williams who caused Sloan to resign. So Miller was listening to Williams too much, Sloan had enough and flipped the organization the bird, took Johnson with him, and now Ty Corbin is in charge long-term. Here's what happens next: 1. Jazz fans boo Williams mercilessly. 2. Williams gives about 6% effort from here out. 3. Jazz pack it in for the rest of the year. 4. Jazz pick ~6th in the draft. 5. Jazz select another slow, white, Eastern European center. 6. Williams leaves as a free agent. 7. Jazz fans have their own version of the LeBrocalypse. 8. Jazz win 10 games next year. I feel bad for Sloan through this whole thing - he's given his heart and soul to that franchise. But as a non-Jazz fan, I say pass me the popcorn...this one's gonna get good.
To make this somewhat RSL related: The door is WIDE OPEN right now in the utah sports market. People are gonna turn on the Jazz (and some will be happy, lets be honest) RSL can show what its like to not have an oranization/players/coaches with ego
