Yanks on Foreign YNTs

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by Dave Marino-Nachison, Dec 29, 2008.

  1. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I do. 14-15 year old kids' parents aren't going to sign up with FC Dallas' youth program if it means they won't be eligible for college schollys.

    (For the sake of argument, I'm assuming that my earlier surmise is correct, that if FCD pursued training expenses that would make these kids scholly ineligible.)
     
  2. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    I've said it earlier, private small club teams need to go away, or get better established in making ties with PRO clubs, like tahuichi, a private school of soccer made greats like Marco Etcheverry and Jaime Moreno have ties to the two big pro clubs in Santa Cruz, Bolivia.

    Big clubs in all the MLS club States need to form partnerships and the programs at the club level, like DC Uniteds Under-Whatever teams need to get more exposure to the WHOLE youth, and show that they are the premiere team to play for in the area.

    The whole youth system in this country needs to be redone with the change in our game, thats the only way we will produce world class players and help our NT grow even faster than it has already since 1990.
     
  3. Tim Brice

    Tim Brice Member

    Sep 22, 2005
    Little Rock, AR
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The NCAA allows players to play against professionals but not be on the same team as professionals. This is why some PDL teams are able to pay some players.
     
  4. Tim Brice

    Tim Brice Member

    Sep 22, 2005
    Little Rock, AR
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I disagree. There has to be some incentive for using resources to train these players. What is the point of a pro club spending money on players it has no chance to sign or sell?
     
  5. Tim Brice

    Tim Brice Member

    Sep 22, 2005
    Little Rock, AR
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The solution is to do something similar to MLB does. Assuming that players trained in an academy setting are not eligible for NCAA soccer, then the club needs to pay for the player to go to college if a professional soccer career does not work out. Obviously, there would need to be some sort of limitation placed on this.

    Academies would also need to provide adequate schooling for players. It would be part of the appeal. A young, athletic kid who has shown some skill on the pitch can get out of a rough part of town by attending an academy and getting a solid education to boot.
     
  6. wcssstar33

    wcssstar33 Member

    Aug 28, 2008
    Milwaukee
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This could be a unique opportunity for those clubs leaving USL-1....Be like UANL Tigres or UNAM pumas. Professional teams but universities at the same time.
     
  7. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Because people are confused here. Right now (and for the forseeable future as far as I can tell).........FC Dallas, Houston Dynamo, etc. youth teams are no different than the Dallas Texans, Sockers FC, Solar SC, and other youth teams throughout this country. They happen to be run by the MLS clubs...............but these kids aren't signed/contracted to MLS in any way. Now, if they play with these youth teams for a designated period of time, then the MLS club keeps their rights (i.e. they don't have to worry about drafting them, etc.). For example, Bill Hamid can sign with DC United without having to go thru the draft. Did the Dallas Texans get compensated when Lee Nguyen signed with PSV or Jarred Jeffrey signed in Belgium? No, they didn't. so why would FCD youth programs, when the kids aren't technically under any contract whatsoever?

    Right now in the world of football, this is how the system works. This is why Man United can go out and sign essentially whatever youth players they want to from around the world. Hence why Le Havre is pissed that ManU just came and swooped up Pogba from their youth programs. Or Lazio was pissed that they got nothing in return for Macheda. I'm not saying it's right..........it's just the way it works. Now UEFA and FIFA seem to be taking an interest in this matter.........as the recent transfer embargo on Chelsea can demonstrate.
     
  8. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    They sign up now and do not lose their eligibility, only if they sign professional contracts which for me would only be for the top 1-2% of all elite players aged 16-17. That would cover maybe 3-4 players per team per year. Remember only about 30-35% of all HS students graduate from a 4 yr college and college graduates avg around 35K a yr. So if we have a system whereby only the top players can average 40K while still having a way to affordably become educated and get a college degree (if they wish) voila we have a new paradigm. We have been duped into thinking that the only way for us to develop top soccer players is for them to play college soccer.
    Elite Soccer Development + Education does not have to equal college soccer.
     
  9. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    Interesting. A way for elite professional soccer development with education without college soccer.
    I like it.
     
  10. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Yeah, who's paying for that? Not an MLS club in the forseeable future, I know that much.
     
  11. wcssstar33

    wcssstar33 Member

    Aug 28, 2008
    Milwaukee
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thats just it. With the buy in price to be 40 million, I think that the MLS would be smart to allow those teams to come in for 5 million, and basically allow MLS clubs to have a minor league type affiliate, but only players who have not graduated college.
     
  12. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Just to continue our youth-poaching topic:

    Fiorentina is now complaining about Man United.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/8245931.stm

    Fifa has revealed that Fiorentina have been in contact with them about Manchester United's signing of 16-year-old defender Michele Fornasier.

    The Italian club have made initial contact with football's governing body but no formal complaint has been made.

    United are confident of their legal position and that Fornasier was not contracted to Fiorentina when he was signed by the Red Devils this year.


    The very topic we're discussing is becoming a major issue accross the pond. These 16-17 year old kids can be poached by big clubs...............minimizing the compensation given to the "selling" team.
     
  13. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I doubt that would add up. Too much added expenditure for the added revenue. I mean, yeah, the system as a whole might be profitable, because if you are lucky enough to find a stud you can sell him for a million dollars. But those guys are going to be few and far between.
    My question is, would that still be true if the clubs started pursuing compensation for players signed from them?
     
  14. Otergod

    Otergod Member+

    Sep 20, 2007
    indianapolis
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    technically Texans wouldnt have gotten anything b/c Nguyen was playing with IU at the time of his departure to PSV
     
  15. Otergod

    Otergod Member+

    Sep 20, 2007
    indianapolis
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i stand firm that there has to be some middle ground.

    though still a contract, they could develop a youth contract that allows the youth club to get compensated if a pro club comes a bidding, and still wouldnt make them ineligible for NCAA b/c they were in fact not playing pro.
     
  16. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    It gets too trickey with the NCAA involved, really simply i think, kids should be ASKED how serious they wnat to take their career.

    When they join these clubs as kids, if their talent and their skills are good enough, many kids who are able to, should go pro at like 17-18, like they do at the big clubs. They too can go to school, like say kids for DC United, can attend many good schools around and maybe have paid tuition like they do at many jobs.

    Now KIDS who's parents want them to persue education FIRST, and soccer second, should be the ones going to the NCAA, the ones that basically are saying screw soccer, books first, soccer second. And also kids who's talent isnt all that, but can still play in the NCAA.

    My point is the MLS clubs should get the pick of the liter from HS FIRST, then college.

    If this would happen, kids would be practicing with pro's at 17-18 which would in turn bring their skills up to a real MANs level, and would get them playing at a higher level faster, than going pro at 22-23 which IMO stunts our players growths as... players lol.

    That, and kids need to play indoor soccer without walls more, to get their touch good like in all european and south american countries that play really well in small areas.
     
  17. wcssstar33

    wcssstar33 Member

    Aug 28, 2008
    Milwaukee
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    awhile ago I just threw the idea out there about possibly using the former USL-1 teams as expedited college teams. A la UANL Tigres or UNAM Pumas.

    I think this would not only eliminate the need for NCAA's tricky restrictions, so that then the top prospects could get professional coaching for as long as they want per day, and have a longer season where they play this top competition year round, as well as getting an education, the very thing that scares most teens from going pro right out of high school.

    I posted a thread on it in the MLS: Expansion forum.

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1166604

    Just an idea, but with a couple people interested I thought it could warrant its own thread.
     
  18. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
  19. midfieldmadness

    Aug 12, 2009
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    As a former youth soccer player who, along with many of my friends, played college soccer. I just don't see this working unless the teams are going to pay for the kids' university level education in full. It is not that the kids wouldn't want to go for it and become pro soccer players, many of their parents wouldn't want to let them blow a free ride at college for the chance to make it as soccer players.

    The reality is that the majority of top prospects - even at 17 or 18 - don't end up having very lucrative or successful soccer careers. But a college degree can pay dividends for a lifetime.

    So, unless the parents don't have to give up the free education piece, I don't see the straight to pro idea drawing a lot of the kids to the pro clubs. I'm a soccer nut, and I wouldn't let my son do it if offered the opportunity.
     
  20. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    I just think there are alot of very good players who don't look at college as an option. What do they do. We are in the middle of a paradigm shift where non-suburban latino kids are being bled into the American system with the first Mexican-American being capped by USMNT and for the first time having the majority of players invited into the next Bradenton class being latino-americans. Do they emphasize college education the way you do? Does elite soccer development + education have to = college soccer. MLS, Bradenton, plus college soccer got us to this point but college soccer won't take us to the next level. College soccer won't go away just that for the elite player it won't be the predominant way to professional soccer. I'd like to see the shift from 90% of all MLS American players play college soccer to 30% over the next 10 yrs. With the slow growth of the sport and revenue I hope this shift is a realistic option for MLS to improve along with the USMNT. We've already scene the shift in the USMNT 20 yrs ago having all 4 yr college graduates to now with the great majority playing just 1 or 2 yrs or none at all. In another 10-20 yrs we'll see all elite players who make it to the USMNT playing no college soccer at all.
     
  21. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Yea, thats what i was saying. Club teams pay the kids a very small wage, like say what the young guys were getting in MLS at 22-23, 20k or less, but the company pays their tuition to a local university.
     
  22. Scotty

    Scotty Member+

    Dec 15, 1999
    Toscana
  23. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    An Adam Lysak update:

    Lysak has dual citizenship with Poland and is a member of Poland’s U-18 team after a good showing during a tryout that was set up by a previous coach. If given the opportunity to play for Poland one day he would jump at the chance, but right now he is just focusing on school and the two games coming up this weekend.​

    http://marquettetribune.org/2009/09...hman-comes-back-from-injury-with-eye-for-goal
     
  24. m vann

    m vann Moderator
    Staff Member

    Colorado Rapids, Celtic FC, & Louisville City
    Sep 10, 2002
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mix Diskerud has alerted us to Eric Benjaminsen, a '92, who plays with the youth team at Stabæk.

     
  25. CenterLine

    CenterLine Member

    Jan 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For my money it's Mix followed by Brede Hangeland...;)
     

Share This Page