Or maybe the USWNT is a bigger than the Burn are? Maybe a one-off friendly is a bigger deal than one of 20ish Burn games?
I'm sure that's right, but in fairness that's not what he said. He proposed playing 30 days earlier than MLS will kick off its 2012 season -- that's two home games per team. And he admitted attendance wouldn't be as good, but he thought summer of soccer type events could be enhanced to more than make up the difference at the gate and further argued that the alignment would generate increased sales of players that would further justify the change In effect, he's proposing sacrificing some attendance at two home games per team to make more money in other ways. I don't know if that's possible, but it's not so outrageous that I dismiss it out of hand.
Of course to do that the teams would have to have those summer of soccer type events. Something that a number of markets (*cough* Colorado *cough*) has failed to do. For example, since moving into the Dick in 2007 Colorado has hosted Everton in 2008, and a Mexican team in 2008 and 2009. Nothing in 2010 or 2011 and the Mexican teams haven't really been a big draw on their own.
Yes, they would, but honestly it's the one part of this that seems plausible to me (because I'm skeptical that MLS would start selling a bunch of players). I think SUM could run a couple great summer tournaments and really turn the US into the premier off-season destination for European, South American and Mexican clubs. What's the probable loss at the gate for a couple games, even if the weather is playable but crummy? Could the Rapids pull half their typical average -- say 7,500? If they do, they need an event to make up 15,000 ticket sales, and remember while they have to pay a fee to the opposing team, they don't pay MLS 30% of the gate as they do during the regular season. I'm not sure the economics of this are as challenging as people suspect. I realize many fans don't like the summer friendlies, but they're lucritive and I think they could be expanded if they weren't competing with the MLS regular season. Finally, remember MLS has already lengthened the season and added two home games per team without major changes to the CBA -- in other words these two games are pretty much being played with house money now. To me the far bigger problem is the break itself -- will more casual fans simply lose interest in the season during the long layoff which wouldn't just impact attendance in these two February games, but throughout the "stub" portion of the season after the break. I think that may be the real issue.
But I don't think that only the cold weather games will be affected. I think adding more cold weather games will have a negative effect on season ticket sales which would drive down attendance for every game. I know more than a couple fans who would think twice about buying season tickets if they knew they were going to have to deal with cold weather more than they do now, instead buying half tickets, multi-game packs, or just single-game tickets.
Of course, that also means that either you have only a 30 day "offseason" or that you also cram a lot more midweek games into an already crowded schedule. Either way, there are larger impacts than just those two home games.
I like that you point this out because Wynalda's schedule results in a mid season break that's longer than the off season.
Again, if you simply put his dates on the calendar, here is what MLS could have done: Kickoff the weekend of September 3, 2011 Play 13 weekend games and at least 3 midweek games Break after the weekend of December 10, 2011 Resume the weekend of February 11, 2012 (I mistakenly said said February 5th in an earlier post, but he said resume the weekend after the Super Bowl) Play 12 more weekend games and at least 2 midweek games End Regular Season after the weekend of April 28, 2012 That's 25 weekend dates. Depending on whether they had a 30, 32 or 34 game schedule, they would need five to nine weeknight games. You could pick up two more weekend dates by pushing back into August, but what I've set forth above is what he's called for. That provides the month of May for the playoffs. By contrast, I just randomly pulled the 2012 schedule for Chicago and Toronto, and they have six matches on non-weekend dates (that is, days other than Friday, Saturday or Sunday). http://www.chicago-fire.com/news/2012/01/fire-reveal-2012-mls-schedule http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/01/05/toronto-fc-releases-2012-league-schedule/ Again, personally I would pick up two more weekends by starting last year on Saturday, August 27, but if you did exactly as Wynalda wanted and kept a 34 game schedule, it's another three weeknight games for each team, meaning another one or two weeknight home games. Step back and really look at it, and I maintain it's not the two extra cold weather home games for teams or the one or two extra weeknight games for teams, it's what a two month break in mid-season does to attendance after the restart even on optimal weekends -- personally, I think it would have a significant impact because fan interest has to be re-generated and I don't think that will be easy, especially for teams finishing out losing years. For teams with large STH bases it might not matter, but I think it could really impact those that don't. I just think that's the better focus of discussion. Again, I once argued it was dumb to even play in early March in MLS cities, but the league obviously feels otherwise. I suspect, in time, they'll creep into February too. That's why I think it's the break that's really the issue, not a couple more cold weather or weeknight games.
Again, it doesn't. He's called for playoffs in May, with a summer break for June, July and August. Winter break is almost exactly two months from early December though early February.
Currently, MLS's offseason is roughly 4 to 4.5 months for non playoff teams(November thru Marchish). This schedule would be closer to 6 months off for non playoff teams(2 moths for winter break plus May thru August).
Thanks for clarifying, so It's five months off instead of four. I see that as a step backwards nonetheless.
I don't disagree. Wynalda's deservedly become a polarizing figure here because of some of his twitter activity (and you'd think he would know better, but that's another tread). I'm trying to remove him from this debate and just look at his dates. There are, to me, really two issues where we can have a good, substantive discussion. Jasonma noted one earlier that you just touched on too -- his season takes up fewer days in the calendar than the current one, which is exactly the opposite of what our USMNT coach is clamoring for. The second is the break itself for the reasons I noted above. I'll be honest, I don't like watching games in February or March in the north and I don't like the idea of a two month break, but MLS has already given us an early March, so I'm not going to scream that two more cold dates is the end of the league as we know it. The only area that intrigues me in all of this is a summer break to really push those summer friendlies under a SUM umbrella. I think MLS would find even more support for them if they weren't running during the regular season.
But the CBA requires X amount of "vacation" days (for lack of a better term) for players including at least one uninterrupted stretch IIRC. how is that going to work out with offseason friendlies in the summer?
That's only if MLS was willing to play through the September 2-6, October 7-11, and November 11-15 official FIFA dates. MLS would need to either reverse course on respecting the FIFA calendar or add three more weekday games (on three fewer weekdays). And adding those games is going to be tough; based on the 2011-12 schedule, there are seven "in-season" CCL games, plus the February FIFA friendly date to deal with.
That's true, although (at least for 2012) I believe the November date is for friendlies, not an official match date as are the September and October dates. But with June open MLS would be off for all of the World Cup and Gold Cups, not simply part of them, so that should be weighed in the balance too for those concerned about international dates.
September and October are official match window, November is a friendly match window, March of 2013 is an official match window. November isn't a big deal but the other 3 will probably include CONCACAF WCQ's.
Agreed. It's a trade off -- he picks up some Gold Cup and World Cup dates, and (probably) would sacrifice some of these. I'll be honest, I think MLS is getting unfairly criticised for playing on some of these dates now. European clubs are screaming about the growth of the international calendar (which often seems more for lining the pockets of FIFA and the confederations than anything meaningful). The September date in particular is a poor one that may drop off.
My only question is what happens when half of the games in November, December, and February are canceled due to the weather. It is happening in England, mainly at the lower levels of the pyramid, but it also affects the top division as well. A team like Toronto in CCL may be screwed as they are playing in the CCL and trying to reschedule games during a playoff push. I'm sure someone could find the dates and make a schedule that will work, but is it fair to have a bunch of rearranged dates and possibly playing 3 games a week during the playoff run? What about the USOC? Will MLS teams enter the tournament during the offseason? Will they be forced to drop out altogether? Will big European clubs want to come to the US to play MLS teams in preseason form? I guess I have a lot of questions. I'm ok with either type of schedule since I'm familiar with both, but I would definitely prefer the Spring-Fall format.
I don't know why we can't be different have a summer season. I love summer night games, especially when Europe is in off season and I'm craving to watch a game.
Just to throw this out there... Using Wynalda's September to April winter schedule, that means we'd miss out on the #3, #4, and #5 best average attended months in the MLS schedule. Only March and October have higher averages and that is largely due to the first games of the season in March and playoff fever in October. Code: Oct 18294 Mar 17433 Jul 17278 Jun 17181 Aug 16961 Sep 16530 Apr 16106 May 15762 Going with Wynalda's proposed schedule means MLS will be getting the first and last month bumps it already has, but it will not get the attendance bump from the warm months that it currently gets. If anything, it will be replacing the bump from the summer months with craters from winter months.
In the attendance threads, when attendance goes up the last few matches, most of the local fans attribute it more to people using up their flex tickets than to "playoff fever." This makes me think...I'll bet what happens if MLS were to go fall-spring is that aLOT of season tickets would go unused in February and then cashed in during March and April.
Saying it is because of the flex tickets is only one aspect of the bump. In the attendance thread it is just the last flex game of the season that is generally attributed to the flex tickets, not the entire month. The other aspect of the attendance bump, both in the summer months and at the end of the season is an increase in the number of single game sales. Those single game sales are going to be lost sales as they won't be shifting to the end of the season like the flex tickets.