Alert: WPS Suspended

Discussion in 'NWSL' started by SCCL, Jan 30, 2012.

  1. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

    Jun 10, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Ridiculous.
    I also heard that the Red Stars were charged a nice hefty sum at Toyota Park. Don't quote me, I'm not exactly sure but I've heard from people that it could have been around $50,000 per game.
     
  2. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think it's a combination. I suspect that loyalty to home team will be very important to the most likely customers, including loyalty to the particular players on the team (which means that lots of players moving from one team to another is not good). I think this will be especially important to a team's fan base. On the other hand, USWNT stars will help bring new customers to a game or two with the possibility to convert them to regular fans.

    Also, the World Cup/Olympics occur only every four years. The more important aspect to having the USWNT players in the games is scheduling coordination between the USSF and the pro league so that USWNT players are not constantly missing practices and pro games for camps and friendlies. It also may be important to set revised pro league schedules in World Cup/Olympics years. This is important, as having USWNT players come and go impairs the ability to develop loyalty to the home team, which I believe is critical to maintaining a healthy fan base.

    Also, there aren't that many USWNT players who are known stars -- Solo, Wambach, Rapinoe, maybe Morgan, and Abby may be done fairly soon.
     
  3. Norsk Troll

    Norsk Troll Member+

    Sep 7, 2000
    Central NJ
    But don't underestimate the draw of a single player. Sky Blue got 100+ season tickets all three years from our Club, which most assuredly would not have happened had Heather O'Reilly not grown up in our town and played for our Club.
     
  4. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All leagues, all sports, are driven by their stars, especially by casual fans. I assume non US WC stars have some demand, but women's soccer has no stars that are not from the WC. Can you name a women's player that is not a WC star who draws fans?
     
  5. Norsk Troll

    Norsk Troll Member+

    Sep 7, 2000
    Central NJ
    Kendall Fletcher. There's a girl on my team obsessed with her. So that's one fan ... ;)
     
  6. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Two counting newsouth and Press.:p
     
  7. Flea2009

    Flea2009 Member

    Dec 6, 2009
    Kirkcaldy
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    Tasha Kai.
     
  8. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Norsk Troll, which do you think is more important (if either) -- HAO being from your town and playing for your club or her being a star? I'm guessing some of both. This reinforces my sense that loyalty to individual players is important to likely pro women's soccer customers. How much it matters that they're stars, I don't know, although I agree it helps, I just don't know how much.

    Lloyd, on the one hand you've often pointed out the facts that this is a women's team sport and it is soccer, so we shouldn't have the same expectations as for men's sports that are not soccer. I agree with you on that. Yet here, you are equating women's soccer to all other sports. While I know there are similarities, I'm not sure they're as absolute as you seem to be saying here. (Actually, I'm not sure you think that either, it just seems to be what you're saying.) The likely customers for the one may be very different than the likely customers for the other, with different characteristics and values. I agree that casual fans can be drawn to some extent by stars -- the few that are on the WNT -- but I'm not sure they're as important to the likely fan base as distinguished from the casual fan.

    Plus, I'm sure there are fans who have favorite players who are not the WNT players. I'll give you an example: if I were in Boston, I'd go to games simply to see Keelin Winters, Elli Reed, and Stephanie Cox play. Why? I got to watch each of them play for four years in Portland and I like to watch them play simply because of that. I feel like I have a personal connection to them, I've met their families, and so on. From a marketing perspective, I'm the fan a team really wants, because my fandom is not dependent on seeing one of the WNT stars play.

    The real question, I believe, is whether there are enough people like me (and MRAD12) out here, in locations where teams are, for a team to be able to develop a big enough fan base to support a team. I don't know, but I'm willing to hope there are.
     
  9. pasoccerdad

    pasoccerdad Member

    Mar 17, 2008
    KOP
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, A good example would be the WUSA 2003 Philly Charge, 7000+ per game with no superstars (they had Lorrie Fair and Heather Mitts, Lorrie was on her way off the NT, and Mitts had not made the team)

    But really, Philly did pretty well without having the stars around.

    And KK draws well without being on our NT... personally while they stars add a few hundred or more in some markets, their effect on philly was so-so.... Even the Mighty Magicjack could not crack 6K in PPL with Abby and the others NT players... we know her affect in her hometown... but how much of a boost does she get otherwise

    It was not like the Mia affect where every stadium got a significant boot when she came to town in the WUSA

    I would rather see a league build on players that teams can afford and build a loyal following instead of people who only come out once a year
     
  10. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    There was an argument when MLS started suggesting that the league was the rough equivalent of taking the 1980 U.S. hockey team, spreading them out across 10 teams and trying to start a hockey league. The assumption was that no one would care about anyone beyond Harkes, Lalas, Jones, Wynalda, etc.

    Seems kind of strange from this point of view, doesn't it?

    The Freedom was relatively successful, and players like Rebecca Moros (USA, not on the national team) and Sonia Bompastor (France) played a pretty big role in that.
     
  11. mariarfrts

    mariarfrts Member

    Oct 6, 2009
    WA State
    Club:
    Club América
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Fans will come to see WNT play, of course, and this is indeed the main draw for the casual fan now. Hopefully, owners can find a business model that allows them to keep WNT players in the league, but there's also the WWC and Olympic years to think about. If the only draw the league has is the WNT players, they have to work around that for as long as it takes to build fan loyalty to the teams. But then, there's the little matter of financial exhaustion. How much and for how long can the current owners keep the league afloat?
     
  12. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Made her bones as a Nat supersub. My argument is simple: The Nats create Stars/favorite players, don't play when they are gone. One or two favs who are still playing because they are off the team isn't enough.

    I think you have my argument backwards, the fact that it is women's soccer makes it harder to market,and therefore the rules that drive other sports, like "stars make a league" and "you can't drive long term attendance by marketing
    to only one demographic such as kids or an ethnic group" are even more important to be cognizant of......

    Once you get them out to see the Nats, what is more likely to will keep them there: A favorite player that is there every game or trying to keep interested in somebody else when the fav misses a month?
     
  13. billf

    billf Member+

    May 22, 2001
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I do not think teams should rely on players. Players will come and go. I know having certain players on a televised game might convince someone with no rooting interest to tune in, but the primary thing a team needs to do is build itself up as a brand. A player might get you some buzz, but if one doesn't care about team, that interest will wain.
     
  14. mariarfrts

    mariarfrts Member

    Oct 6, 2009
    WA State
    Club:
    Club América
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    I agree in part with you; as someone who lives nowhere close to a WPS team (WA State) I followed the league only on tv and watched the games regardless of who was playing. But for now, to put butts in seats, WPS have had to rely mainly on WNT and recognizable international players as their main draw. IMO, they will have to do so until they hopefully build up their brand and therefore local fan loyalty in their respective markets.
     
  15. Flea2009

    Flea2009 Member

    Dec 6, 2009
    Kirkcaldy
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    No, your argument is changing. You said World Cup star not the national team. Kai played less than 10 minuter in 07, no one knew who she was till the Olympics.
     
  16. madisonroad

    madisonroad Member

    Jun 20, 2009
  17. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually, my first post said don't play league games during either the WC or Olympics. Unlike for the men, it is pretty close in importance, and I equate WC stars with Olympic stars.

    Then I responded to MRAD who was saying was I saying DB was right in prioritizing the USWNTers. And I said pretty much....
     
  18. dtid

    dtid Member

    Sep 6, 2010
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    There are some in Dallas still with their noses out of joint about not getting a US national teamer until Chad Deering in 1998 - who was far from the US soccer star that the '94 players were - and while that really isn't relevant to the team now, in the first half of the team's existence, it sure didn't help the perception that the team was an afterthought.....

    And as great as these women are about being ambassadors and responsible with their stardom, frankly I think they are even more effective than any of the '94 players were. So while I don't think it is a necessary component, don't underestimate the value.
     
  19. Ben James Ben

    Ben James Ben Member

    Apr 28, 2009
    Would dissolution of the WPS end its legal entanglements? Or, would bankruptcy be required to do that? I'm not sure what assets the league actually owns. I imagine that they can't be that much.

    Does the Women's Soccer Initiative, Inc. still exist as a separate entity?

    It would be like you walking away from your old company and starting a new company. As I understand it, one of the main points of a corporation or LLC is that the company is a legally separate entity from its owners. The Women's Professional Soccer league is an LLC, I believe.
     
  20. fire123

    fire123 Member+

    Jul 31, 2009
    I am no lawyer but even as a LLC, you still have certain liability. I don't know the extent of it but I am pretty sure you can't just simply wash your hand and walk away.
     
  21. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fake Sigi has an excellent article with some little nuggets of new information on the demise of the LA Sol. It's a short but nuanced, thoughtful read. Between WPS and AEG no one comes out looking the villain in this. If anyone or anything's the villain here it's the economy. Remember between 2007, when AEG first made, then modified, its commitment and 2009, WPS' first season, the economy took a nosedive, particularly in the fall of 2008.


    Thanks to Beau Dure's Twitter feed for the tip. (@duresport)
     
  22. pasoccerdad

    pasoccerdad Member

    Mar 17, 2008
    KOP
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Casuall Fan is only coming out for one game anyway and really not to see the players or to cheer for a team, it is to socialize... they could care less.

    Again Philly Charge drew well without having Nats, their marketing was Kelly Smith, Mitts and Fair. Lorrie and the team were everywhere doing appearances.

    I could care less if the National Team Player want more money and don't want to play.... you only have so much gate money and if they are not out promoting the WPS, why should they get more than any other player who does not get paid by the WNT.

    It should be about what is best for the team and the sport and not about a few players who already have an income.
     
  23. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

    Jun 10, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I've also learned not to confuse what coaches want and what owners are willing to pay for.

    Coaches may want for WPS to be back in a high level with high budgets, playing in beautiful venues with high players. I'm sure that's what Riley and the other coaches want.

    However, owners may not be able to afford this. Then coaches may have to wait and see how the experiment with the WPSL turns out.

    If the WPS comes back, it will NOT be business as usual. This, IMO will be somewhere between what the WPS was in its first 3 years and the WPSL/W-USL.
     
  24. hykos1045

    hykos1045 Member

    May 10, 2010
    Club:
    Philadelphia Independence
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think that the WPSL Elite will exist for a year without the national teamers and without the big stadiums. Any articles to the contrary are optimistic but still very very vague.

    I'm hoping, however, that Boston and WNY's temporary participation in the WPSL doesn't have to go the way of Chicago's years of absence, which even in a great season to the Redstars, did not help in reviving a WPS ready franchise.
     
  25. Morris20

    Morris20 Member

    Jul 4, 2000
    Upper 90 of nowhere
    Club:
    Washington Freedom
    Then it will fail pretty quickly . . . building a market for 1st division level women's soccer is a long-term project. Trying to do it with amateurs on a national scale is a fool's errand.
     

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