Let me clarify (one can go back and read my lines) 1- I just said missing names of Vava adn Tosstao in TOP100 WC players ! (not necessary they will be placed higher then Lineker depends on criteria) 2- In bracket I meant they were better player (more all rounded in general) then say Lineker/ ================================= For example, some might list Klose very high in TOP100 WC players = yes in a sense ...(14goals?) but if missing say, Falcao or Rivelino in that list was ridiculous ... as they were (surely) better player than Klose (and they were not bad at all there)
Talent is irrelevant in this discussion. George Best was one of the most talented players of all time but he never appeared at a World Cup, hence no appearance in this list. The goals against Poland were crucial because they killed the game before half-time against a side who had been semi-finalists four years earlier. It's easy to dismiss the second and third goals as ultimately irrelevant but if Lineker had only scored one the pressure would have built and the danger was there for a comeback. Equally against Paraguay he quickly subdued an opponent who started brightly and could have troubled England. None of Lineker's goals came in irrelevant hammerings. All of them were significant in helping his team. Tostao, great player that he was, was arguably the fifth best player on his own team in 1970 (after Pele, Rivellino, Jairzinho and Gerson). In 1966 he played one game, scoring in the defeat to Hungary.
Why was Tostao the fifth best in 1970? Pelé and Jairzinho seem logical but Rivelino too? Gerson had a different role, so that will depend more on what's valued highly. Tostao has a credible claim for being man of the match in the quarter-final (Peru) and semi-final (Uruguay).
As a start it might be said that Rivelino wasn't the best Brazilian forward in any of the games. Tostao had Peru as stand-out game. In general his understanding with Pelé was very important and effective, characterized as a 'twin' in the press; hence Pelé said in February 1970 a few times that the inclusion of Tostao would result in the victory. Maybe it was not a coincidence too that Rivelino played largely at the sides instead of a beloved central role. So that might be why he was 'better' as Rivelino in 1970.
Does it make sense or did I say something stupid? Probably Rivelino has an edge in the timing of his goals and assists in comparison with Tostao. That said, Lineker is probably the only striker in post-war World Cup history who can claim to be the best performing striker in two separate tournaments.
Good question. For only one WC, I will give an edge for Schillaci (just like Rossi 82) Over all WC, Lineker was just better (more all rounded and delivered well)
You might not get my point. G Best was great but he never played WC so no discussion here. Tostao, Rivelino ... Vava did play at least 1 good WC ... I agree with you that Tostao was barely 5th bets player in that team 70, but imagine if Lineker was playing for that same team? would he make #5? probably not ... Just like we say Valdez might be the WORST player in Barca prime time, but he was arguably worldclass in his best though ...
Tostao was the best player of Brazil '70, with Gerson, Pele, Rivelino and Jairzinho following close behind. Also Carlos Alberto and Clodoaldo were excellent in defensive roles.
I agree Rivelino was slightly better than Tostao. (or like Comme said #5 in that team 70) I think you meant ... to say ENGLISH striker (!) Many great strikers did good to great at two WC's :Vava, Rossi, Ronaldo, Baggio, Klinsman, Batistuta, Vieiri ... and recently Klose p)
Nice link, at least Lineker has possessed a good taste in attacking Football with Pele and Tostao as his front men plus Cruijff and Best supporting behind .. Just wonder when that was (no date?) and which Cooper? I believed Lineker's best XI was a 4 4 2 ? ------------Pele ----- Tostao ------------ Cruijff ---------------------------G Best -------- A.Ball ----- B.Charlton --------- I.Cooper? ----------------------C.Alberto ----------Moore ---Beckenbauer-------- ------------------ Banks ------------------
In the same magazine (Shoot) and section I noticed that Cruijff paid some tribute to Pelé. By the way, apparently he was very popular among the readers of Shoot magazine. Wasn't able to find it for other years (though in 1974 Bremner & Dalglish were by the readers voted as most exciting domestic players), but in 1973 he won with 90% of the votes! Spoiler (Move your mouse to the spoiler area to reveal the content) Show Spoiler Hide Spoiler Sadly, cannot find it for other years right now... Would Venezuela have won the World Cup with Pelé in their team ? Pelé refused to pose in an Argentina shirt I guess?
Cruyff is almost 67 now? Seemed like yesterday that he was leading the Barca Dream Team to such glory, as a relatively young 43 year old manager.
lost UCL94 ... unfortunately However 4 liga + 1UCL+ 1CWC + 1UEFA supercup over 7years was a GREAT COACH record Cruyff's Barcelona: The Rise and Fall of the Dream Team http://www.zani.co.uk/sport/496-cruyffs-barcelona-the-rise-and-fall-of-the-dream-team
Interesting anecdote regarding 1986WC. In today's newspaper ('Algemeen Dagblad') a piece about the referee for the upcoming World Cup 2014 final. It's said that Bjorn Kuipers his name is mentioned in the corridors, and ofc some attention exists because he is Dutch (and a pro-Barca ref ). Anyway, a former referee, Jan Keizer tells and confirms about the 1986WC some things. That is: the 1986 final was supposed to go to an European referee, with Keizer on the final shortlist too. However, Brazil became eliminated prematurely and sooner than expected (despite the infamous Spain-Brazil game in the grp stage and Socrates his remarks etc.). Result was that Joao Havelange saw space to vouch for fellow countryman Filho as referee (who slept in the same hotel as all other referees of course). And that is what happened; the widely held expectation of an European referee to lead to final did not come out. The 1982 World Cup final was also led by a Brazilian, Cézar Coelho, and the 'corridors' or 'Kremlin watchers' - so to speak - were not expecting a repeat of this scenario; even in case of a premature elimination of Brazil before the semi-finals stage. Bottom-line of Keizer his point is: a lot of things can happen in between now and the actual final, but I found the anecdote he told/confirmed interesting.
Yes I read that ... But not sure if you know the controversial at WC66 was even BIGGER to STOP Brazil from winning 3 straight WC, and eventually backing up England to win instead ... - In group: 3 games were ref by England REF and Germany against Brazil - the result was that Pele was hard tackled (vs Bulgaria and Portugal) and was kinda limping, walking on the pitch for 50mins, with no reaction from REF!!!! - Brazil EXIT EARLY at GRP stage (for their very FIRST EVER SHAMEFUL WC history)
World soccer magazine just published this week their top 50 greatest players of World cups. The magazine established as criteria for their ranking: individual awards, decisive role in big matches, player importance for their teams and legacy in the history of the event. Their list included Vavá, but sadly excluded names like Rivaldo, Stoichkov and Hagi. 1-Pelé 2-Maradona 3-Beckenbauer 4-Garrincha 5-Gerd Muller 6-Ronaldo 7-Cruyff 8-Zidane 9-Just Fontaine 10-Lothar Matthaus 11-Ferenc Puskas 12-Roberto Baggio 13-Romario 14-Buffon 15-Bobby Charlton 16-Cafu 17-Seeler 18-Platini 19-Klinsmann 20-Jairzinho 21-Maldini 22-Klose 23-Yashin 24-Eusebio 25-Cannavaro 26-Lato 27-Rummenigge 28-Kempes 29-Thierry Henry 30-Gordon Banks 31-Didi 32-Bobby Moore 33-Giuseppe Meazza 34-Vavá 35-Xavi 36-Gary Lineker 37-Roger Milla 38-Dino Zoff 39-Cubillas 40-Paolo Rossi 41-Batistuta 42-Bergkamp 43-Barthez 44-Suker 45-Oliver Kahn 46-Iniesta 47-Forlan 48-Donovan 49-Salenko 50-Thuram http://engagedmediamags.com/sports-.../special-issues/50-greatest-world-cup-players http://placar.abril.com.br/materia/com-pele-no-topo-revista-elege-os-50-maiores-jogadores-em-copas
I'm always amazed at how high Puskas is placed in these lists. He played three games for Hungary - 1 against Korea, 1 against an under strength West Germany and another half fit - and three games for Spain aged 35 without doing too much. Agree on the omissions (especially if Landon Donovan is included) and Thuram is far, far too low.
Too high: Beckenbauer, Fontaine, Muller, Matthaus, Puskas, Buffon, Baggio, Romario, Klinsmann, Cafu, Thierry Henry (what did he do at the World Cup to merit 29th place?). Barthez? Donovan? Too low: Eusebio, Kempes, Didi, Xavi, Rossi, Moore, Lineker, Thuram Didi below people as Henry and Rummenigge (at World Cups) is mind-boggling.