World Cup legends/heroes in history by variety of sources

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by JamesBH11, Apr 13, 2014.

  1. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Seems entirely plausible to me...the thread I linked mentions further discussion of this topic in Hungarian boards, I'm sure others with intimate knowledge may have posted comments as well. In any event, the gentlemen who were involved with the Hungarian NT of the 40s and 50s would be in their 70s at least by the time the Internet became global in the late 90s, thus the scarcity of information.

    I also think you underestimate the effect of Puskas' injury. For an all-time legend, going from 100% to 75% is a huge drop (25% of the talent of a Puskas, DiStefano, Schiaffino, etc. equals 100% of most of their contemporaries), and it that must have seriously hurt Hungary's chances. It seems like Puskas' sub was doing rather well, and the loss of continuity is another factor that affected Hungary negatively. For a similar situation, see Spain in WC06, got nine points by dominating the opposition in the group phase, then under pressure Aragones started Raul who had been used as a supersub until then, the team failed to play anywhere close against France and went out of the WC too early for what they had promised. Many different factors came into play to benefit Germany, including their own mental resilience but also other situations, and they were able to pull off the big upset against a much better side.

    Interesting stuff, it's great to see the game recounted by those who watched it live. There is something in their telling that you don't get from highlight videos only.
     
  2. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    You think it's plausible that the Hungarian wives are transported from behind the Iron Curtain to Switzerland while the rest of the players going off with prostitutes, and it only comes to light on a message board is plausible?

    Plenty of people have interviewed members of that squad. Many of them went to play in the West and they have been the subject of numerous TV programmes. And none of it ever comes out?

    To me that is hugely implausible.

    Meanwhile, I'm not saying that Puskas being unfit wouldn't hurt the team. I'm saying that he still played well and that they should still have won. His injury wasn't the reason they lost.
     
  3. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    No I wouldn't believe anything that is told by anonymous on the internet, but this doesn't sound like a story that is retold on TV or in interviews.
     
  4. Once

    Once Member+

    Apr 16, 2011
    Exactly. Very unlikely that the protagonists would have been too interested in airing that kind of stuff. Doesnt seem too crazy to me. Wont take it as a certainty, but wont dismiss it either.
    I agree with Comme Puskas does not belong in these "best WC performers" lists. As remarkable as Puskas was with his NT, it just did not happen in the WC.
     
    laudrup_10 and Pipiolo repped this.
  5. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    It did show all thehighly minutes by minutes for each team per their attack and important chances

    it was SO CLEAR, Hungary dominate the game with at least 2 times more chances (squandered) then Germamy - which won the first TWO GOALS by Hungary mistakes in defense (Zarakias sliding tackle, and poor clearance of Grocis in a setpiece)

    It was also FUNNY that you provided a link (Germany version) to defend of such a big controversy ???
    1- Why not you asked for Liebrich's version about his tackle of Puskas in group game, and clumsy stumbling into Puskas dribble in final?
    2- WHy not you find a good version of the REF (who became exciled and disappeared later)?

    Like I said, you can go ahead and open a new thread to discuss this ... no offense to you (Germany fan)but you guys ROBBED the poor Hungary country their WC *the only time possible in their history to become yours (first)
     
  6. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    Your opinion, and Please ... you never watched the WC54 in any game? what the h3ll ....

    Puskas was shown up in two lists already ... like it or not ...

    ======================================

    The one I was least fancy to see was Bobby Moore in top10 (two times too) so what? just my opinion like yours on Puskas
     
  7. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    Let's move on with the thread with Planet World Cup - (a good site for WC reference and reliable source)
    http://www.planetworldcup.com/TOP10/players.html

    TOP100 WORLD CUP PLAYERS

    The ranking below is compiled based on a survey held on this website in December 2010 where readers could submit their own Top 10 rankings of best World Cup players. We received several hundred lists and this is the total outcome.

    --------------------------------------------------------
    # Name Country World Cups Apps / Gls
    --------------------------------------------------------
    1 PELÉ BRA 58,62,66,70 14 / 12
    2 MARADONA, Diego ARG 82,86,90,94 21 / 8
    3 BECKENBAUER, Franz GER 66,70,74 18 / 5
    4 RONALDO BRA 98,02,06 19 / 15
    5 ZIDANE, Zinedine FRA 98,02,06 12 / 5
    6 GARRINCHA BRA 58,62,66 12 / 5
    7 MÜLLER, Gerd GER 70,74 13 / 14
    8 CRUIJFF, Johan NED 74 7 / 3
    9 PLATINI, Michel FRA 78,82,86 14 / 5
    10 DIDI BRA 54,58,62 15 / 3

    11 MOORE, Bobby ENG 62,66,70 14 / 0
    12 MEAZZA, Giuseppe ITA 34,38 9 / 3
    13 MATTHÄUS, Lothar GER 82,86,90,94,98 25 / 6
    14 MALDINI, Paolo ITA 90,94,98,02 23 / 0
    15 PUSKAS, Ferenc HUN/SPA 54,62 6 / 4
    16 JAIRZINHO BRA 66,70,74 16 / 9
    17 CHARLTON, Bobby ENG 62,66,70 14 / 4
    18 ZOFF, Dino ITA 74,78,82 17 /-16
    19 MONTI, Luis ARG/ITA 30,34 9 / 2
    20 RIVALDO BRA 98,02 14 / 8

    21 EUSEBIO POR 66 6 / 9
    22 RUMMENIGGE, Karl-Heinz GER 78,82,86 19 / 9
    23 BAGGIO, Roberto ITA 90,94,98 16 / 9
    24 BANKS, Gordon ENG 66,70 9 / -4
    25 LATO, Grzegorz POL 74,78,82 20 / 10
    26 SCHIAFFINO, Juan URU 50,54 9 / 5
    27 CAFU BRA 94,98,02,06 20 / 0
    28 SEELER, Uwe GER 58,62,66,70 21 / 9
    29 VAVA BRA 58,62 10 / 9
    30 FONTAINE, Just FRA 58 6 / 13

    31 SCIREA, Gaetano ITA 78,82,86 18 / 0
    32 KEMPES, Mario ARG 74,78,82 18 / 6
    33 PASSARELLA, Daniel ARG 78,82 12 / 3
    34 XAVI SPA 02,06,10 14 / 0
    35 VARELA, Obdulio URU 50,54 7 / 2
    36 THURAM, Lilian FRA 98,02,06 16 / 2
    37 OVERATH, Wolfgang GER 66,70,74 19 / 3
    38 CUBILLAS, Teofilo PER 70,78,82 13 / 10
    39 WALTER, Fritz GER 54,58 11 / 3
    40 ROSSI, Paolo ITA 78,82 14 / 9

    51 RIVELINO, Roberto BRA 70,74,78 15 / 6
    52 BUFFON, Gianluigi ITA 02,06,10 12 / -8
    53 DJALMA SANTOS BRA 54,58,62,66 12 / 1
    54 VILLA, David SPA 06,10 11 / 8
    55 BREHME, Andreas GER 86,90,94 16 / 4
    56 DUNGA BRA 90,94,98 18 / 0
    57 ROBERTO CARLOS BRA 98,02,06 17 / 1
    58 BREITNER, Paul GER 74,82 14 / 4
    59 NEESKENS, Johan NED 74,78 13 / 5
    60 BONIEK, Zbigniew POL 78,82,86 16 / 6

    61 NILTON SANTOS BRA 54,58,62 15 / 1
    62 VÖLLER, Rudi GER 86,90,94 15 / 8
    63 LEONIDAS BRA 34,38 5 / 8
    64 BERGOMI, Giuseppe ITA 82,86,90,98 16 / 0
    65 KROL, Ruud NED 74,78 14 / 1
    66 DEYNA, Kazimierz POL 74,78 13 / 4
    67 TARDELLI, Marco ITA 78,82 13 / 2
    68 ARDILES, Osvaldo ARG 78,82 11 / 1
    69 BERGKAMP, Dennis NED 94,98 10 / 6
    70 MASOPUST, Josef CZE 58,62 10 / 1

    71 BATISTUTA, Gabriel ARG 94,98,02 12 / 10
    72 KAHN, Oliver GER 02,06 8 / -4
    73 ADEMIR BRA 50 6 / 9
    74 HURST, Geoff ENG 66,70 6 / 5
    75 HENRY, Thierry FRA 98,02,06,10 17 / 6
    76 HELLSTRÖM, Ronnie SWE 70,74,78 10 /-10
    77 CEULEMANS, Jan BEL 82,86,90 16 / 4
    78 HAGI, Gheorghe ROM 90,94,98 12 / 3
    79 CABRINI, Antonio ITA 78,82,86 18 / 1
    80 MILLA, Roger CMR 82,90,94 10 / 5

    81 STOJKOVIC, Dragan YUG 90,98 9 / 3
    82 FILLOL, Ubaldo ARG 74,78,82 13 /-12
    83 PROSINECKI, Robert YUG/CRO 90,98,02 9 / 3
    84 LAUDRUP, Michael DEN 86,98 9 / 2
    85 RAHN, Helmut GER 54,58 10 / 10
    86 MAZURKIEWICZ, Ladislao URU 66,70,74 13 /-16
    87 SUKER, Davor CRO 98,02 8 / 6
    88 BROLIN, Tomas SWE 90,94 10 / 4
    89 NASAZZI, Jose URU 30 4 / 0
    90 NEJEDLY, Oldrich CZE 34,38 6 / 7

    91 RUGGERI, Oscar ARG 86,90,94 16 / 1
    92 SKOGLUND, Lennart SWE 50,58 10 / 1
    93 GIRESSE, Alain FRA 82,86 12 / 3
    94 FORLAN, Diego URU 02,10 8 / 6
    95 SCHNELLINGER, Karl-Heinz GER 58,62,66,70 17 / 1
    96 DASAEV, Rinat SOV 82,86,90 9 /-11
    97 STOICHKOV, Hristo BUL 94,98 10 / 6
    98 BALLACK, Michael GER 02,06 11 / 3
    99 FACCHETTI, Giacinto ITA 66,70,74 12 / 0
    100 BURRUCHAGA, Jorge ARG 86,90 14 / 3

    Closest to making the list: Peter Shilton, Socrates, Marcel Desailly, Guillermo Stabile, Hector Chumpitaz, Salvatore Schillaci, Manuel Amoros, Bebeto, Jan Tomaszewski and Iker Casillas.

    ==================================================

    Like it or not Puskas was in #15 - not bad for such a legend
     
    Gregoire1 repped this.
  8. Once

    Once Member+

    Apr 16, 2011
    You seem displeased by it, but you did get it right, Sherlock: Puskas appeared in some list, I did not think he deserved such mention so I voiced my opinion. Thought that was the general idea in this thread. If not so, my bad, I can stop.
     
  9. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    No, you have right to your opinion ...
    *which is very reasonable though- that Puskas with only few games should not be in TOP10 - I bought that too !

    I just dislike the "fact" you relied on some "comments" of your link, to claim like "Puskas was under shadow or disappeared in WC54 final " which is incorrect / or rather unfair (for a half injured player)

    That's how I recommend you to watch the game yourself - but you turned me OFF by saying like I was a liar (to own and watched that game)
     
  10. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Munich
    This is what I said about the '54 WC final based on Spielverlagerung's analysis:

    "There is not a shadow of a doubt that Hungary would have deserved winning that game."

    Hence I don't understand your reaction in the above quoted post. Next time, read more careful.

    You can of course go on claiming that you have the 54 final in full length. That claim is counterproductive to your credibility, though.
     
  11. Once

    Once Member+

    Apr 16, 2011
    I did not rely on anything. I simply shared information, threw it out there and clarified more than once that it ultimately is the opinion of one guy in the end. Get a fvking hold of yourself, mate.

    I wish I could, but such footage does not seem to exist. I adhere to Gregoriak's comments right above this post.
     
  12. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I do believe @JamesBH11 that he has seen the full-length match of the Hungary vs Germany match. By the mid-50s the television industry was well established, including Emmy awards and the advent of psychological advertising. Don't see why a WC final match must be a Bigfoot mystery.

    @Once @schwuppe @Gregoriak
     
  13. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    you could start watching the youtube link I gave to Pipiolo ... like 15mins of all highlight/ chances to have a feel.
    or spend 10$ to buy a DVD (also linked)
     
  14. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    Ok I am sorry for misreading ;)
     
  15. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    I am still waiting until Arpil 18 to list the complete list ... but thanks to remind me
     
  16. Once

    Once Member+

    Apr 16, 2011
    I did watch highlights, James. But to be able to properly agree or disagree with the MD remarks one has to watch the full game. Forget it though, if you think Puskas is a worthy mention in a top 10 WC performances list thats fine, I can live with that. All those people putting together those lists surely saw the full match :rolleyes:
     
  17. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    #67 JamesBH11, Apr 15, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2014
    Look I said I bought the idea that (Puskas with only a few games) not worthy in TOP10 ...

    Also, I agree that with those games (not fit in the final) Puskas performance was just very good not excellent per se ...

    =======================================
    I will list all surveys available and make some summary.
    Thence, we can move on next step to make a Big Soccer TOP10 or 50 WC players
     
  18. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    #68 schwuppe, Apr 15, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2014
    No.
    James, do you have the VHS from the mid 50s or was Blue-ray already available for you?

     
  19. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    I got bunch of copies in VHS since early 90s when I was working in Brazil a biref time
     
  20. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    By 2010 from a much less (known) football site, here found another World Cup TOP10 best (ICONS)

    http://www.supersport.com/football/2010-world-cup-features/news/100531/World_Cup_icons

    World Cup icons
    31 May 2010, 13:58

    As much as most players insist that teamwork is the secret to success at the World Cup, certain players are given more chance to shine and leave the World Cup as heroes, or even icons, to their fans.

    1- PELE
    Edson Arantes do Nascimento came to world attention as a 17-year-old at the 1958 finals in Sweden, where he helped Brazil win the competition for the first time and become the first side to win away from their home continent.

    2- D. Maradona
    Maradona's promise was spotted in the slums of Buenos Aires and he became the undoubted star footballer of the 1980s with Argentina and with Italian side Napoli.
    He hit his peak in the 1986 finals in Mexico, leading an otherwise average Argentina side to glory with his dazzling skill and will to win, plus a little help from the `Hand of God'.


    3- J. Cruyff
    The lithe forward was the star attraction of Holland's 1974 World Cup team, a side so talented and versatile that their play spawned the phrase `Total Football'.
    Inventive, original and most definitely a one-off, Cruyff was imperious as the Dutch cruised to the 1974 final. They were surprisingly beaten by hosts West Germany, denying Cruyff international honours to go alongside his incredible club achievements with Ajax and Barcelona.


    4- F. Beckenbauer
    He caught the eye at the 1966 World Cup as an all-action midfielder, but his finest hour was as West Germany's sweeper and skipper on home territory in 1974. His commanding presence and leadership qualities earned him the nickname `Der Kaiser' and he also enjoyed great club success with Bayern Munich in the 1970s. He became the first man to win the World Cup as player and manager when he led his country to glory in 1990 and headed the organising committee for the 2006 finals in Germany.

    5- D. Zoff
    He is one of the great goalkeepers of all-time and the oldest player to win the World Cup at the age of 40 in 1982. He began his international career in glorious fashion too, as part of Italy's 1968 European Championship-winning side, but was dropped for the 1970 World Cup finals.
    Upon regaining his place in the Azzurri line-up, he went 1 142 minutes without conceding a goal, with the run ending against Haiti, of all teams, in the 1974 finals

    6- B. Moore
    He captained England to their one and only World Cup success in 1966 but, if anything, looked even better in the 1970 finals, putting in one of the greatest displays of defending ever seen in the 1-0 defeat to Brazil.

    7- L. Matthaus
    A tremendous all-round midfielder who appeared in five finals for West Germany and the unified Germany between 1982 and 1998.
    He shone in the 1986 side before being given man-marking duties on Diego Maradona in the final, keeping his opponent relatively quiet until he played a killer through-ball late on to set up Jorge Burruchaga's winner.
    As his pace dwindled, Matthaus dropped back into a sweeper role for the 1994 and 1998 finals

    8- Z. Zidane
    He was blessed with fabulous technique, an almost limitless passing vision and an eye for goal, especially from set-pieces. Born in Marseille of Algerian descent, the 1998 victory was a triumph for the new, multi-racial France. His decision to come out of international retirement late in the qualifying campaign for 2006 was greeted with relief, though the tournament ended on the sourest of notes.

    9- Ronaldo
    Denied the chance to match Pele's feats when he was confined to the bench in the 1994 finals in the USA as a 17-year-old, he also missed his chance to scale the World Cup summit when convulsions suffered on the day of the 1998 final meant he appeared a shadow of his former self, and should not really have even played.
    World Cup success finally came his way in 2002, as his eight goals -- including both in the final against Germany -- took the buck-toothed striker to the very top.


    10- F. Puskas
    Nicknamed `The Galloping Major', the portly Hungarian hardly looked star material at first glance but, until the emergence of Pele, he and Real Madrid teammate Alfredo di Stefano were possibly the finest players the game had ever witnessed.
    The creative pulse of the great `Magic Magyars' side of the 1950s, his team seemed set fair to win the World Cup in 1954, having humbled England at
    Wembley the previous year.
     
    Gregoire1 repped this.
  21. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    With lists like this it is I think very hard to balance out peak form (for ex. Eusebio, Cruijff) and longevity/appearances (for ex. Maldini, Matthaus).
    Maybe Eusebio and Cruijff had played in the 1970 World Cup if it had 32 entry spots instead of 16. That would've been great I reckon :) (it dilutes the competition?)
    Portugal lost with 4:2 against Luxembourg in the 1962 World Cup qualification (with Eusebio still finding the net from open play though, so no big blame to him as far as I'm concerned).

    And James, would you mind to check the assists-statistic once more?
     
  22. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I think that is a good point.

    The compiler can't do it on an 'average/aggregate' basis otherwise Cruyff would be ahead of Maradona for example. But on a 'cumulative' basis it could be easy to place say Tigana (who I think should be in a 100, and maybe top 50 btw) above Eusebio as an example and put Cruyff outside the top 10. So it has to be a half-and-half approach I suppose, but inevitably some lists put players with many 'good/very good' performances above players with a few 'great' ones in one World Cup and some lists do the opposite. I suppose they are only a rough guide anyway, and some like the PlanetWorldCup one are compliled through votes.

    Assists are ofc quite hard to compile for early years. Bobby Moore got two in the 1966 Final, and Puskas one or two vs Germany in the first game against them in 1954 ofc though.
     
  23. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Thanks.

    Asked it before but I wonder whether for the more modern World Cups (1966 onwards) also post-match statistics exist. For example: is somewhere tracked the possession and shots on target of, say, the 1966 World Cup final. Or some group stage game. That would a fantastic addition.

    @comme @PDG1978
     
  24. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    of which players (in particular)? you and other folks can help to contribute/feedback

    Thanks
     
  25. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    I asked the commercial director of Opta this. They have them but would only make them available to clients like media outlets.
     
    JamesBH11 repped this.

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