Haimoudi is without doubt the best African referee. Gassama has potential but he has to be careful at the "box". About Doue this is my favorite scene: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k335C0bLx27br44eBkp&start=2283 But what bothers me more is that FIFA doesn't put too much trust to referees from CAF. They are rarely appointed at WC after the GS.
Correct. The 1950 World Cup had a second round of group play. It was not a knock out round of two semi-final matches and a final. Four teams competed from the first round winners. It just so happens that Brasil and Uruguay met in the last match and decided the winner of the second round group and the 1950 World Cup Champion.
Other than Ghandour, who got a knockout game in 2002, can you think of any referee from Africa that has earned that sort of trust in the last three tournaments? Maillet was decent in South Africa, but I don't think he was as good as the referees that did get knockout matches. I'm not bothered by African referees missing out if they simply aren't good enough.
The final two matches were played at exactly the same time. Only the BRA-URU match mattered for anything.
Interesting - thanks. So, I was told that Tamberino had been nominated for the 1994 and 1998 World Cup lists (see http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1994-07-09/sports/1994190041_1_referee-tamberino-fifa ) I don't have anything in writing about the 1998 nomination, but in addition to the 1999 U17 nomination, he was AR1 for the AFC final round qualifier Korea-Japan in Seoul (Baharmast was in the middle). Also, I was told by two separate and reliable sources multiple times in 1997 and 1998 that he had been nominated and was near the final cut - don't know why he didn't make it. Anyway, that is seriously water under the bridge, but it was interesting.
Interesting. I wonder what "nominated" meant in those days. It had to go through the confederations still, so I wonder what the next stage/step was after the federation put names forward. @Pierre Head would probably have good insight into this. But I can't imagine FIFA was seriously considering 4 Americans at final selection time--there had to be a winnowing process. As for Tamberino being considered, it doesn't completely surprise me. But with his domestic focus in the middle once MLS started, I always got the impression he was further down our AR depth chart in the late 90s. But, no matter what, if you look back at the 1994 and 1998 World Cups, very few countries got both a referee and an AR at a single tournament. Politics reigned supreme and, unfortunately, you had ARs (without referees) from places like Malta, Sri Lanka, Belarus, Oman, Vanuatu, Finland, etc. Not to denigrate any of those countries specifically, but it was pretty clear that AR spots were a way of spreading the political wealth in that era. It was a policy that caught up with FIFA in 2002, when so many of the major errors in that tournament came from the line.
Yes are right Mass. Probably it is due to the low refereeing level in Africa plus the corruption charges that are coming from there. But this must have an impact on the number of the referees for a WC. Why should Africa have 3+2? This is the kind of politics I don't like.
Gassama and Haimoundi are held in international high regard. The person in question remains Doue. What I'm worried is the politics behind these selection as rarely do the best referees get selected from Africa. And I have no idea why.
I hope they perform well, but I'm not convinced this statement is true yet. I think they are considered the best performing African referees, but actually held in high regard like some of the more household names? I don't think that can be said yet, which is part of the problem. Remember, going into the last World Cup, Codjia and Coulibaly were probably the top two African names. One didn't make it due to a huge error and we all know what happened with the other in South Africa. I hope the CAF selections this time can reverse the trend.
Not sure about Codjia. Never held him in high regard. He looked lost all too often. Koman Coulibaly actually has always impressed me when I saw him. He was a bit slow and lacksadaisical, but seemed to control the games well and rarely made big mistakes. I have no idea what happened to him in the USA - Slovenia game. That said the amount of beef he received for that call one call is pretty surprising. Its nothing as bad as what Carlos Amarilla did in 2006 (who screwed two African sides in succession) or Laszlo Vagner in 1998, but those referees were never so vilified as Coulibaly. Hell... Amarilla is still regarded as one of the top South American referees. and even made the shortlist for 2010. Somehow however African refs seem to get special focus.
I don't think that it's African referees in particular - I believe that a referee from a smaller or less known national league or one without extensive international experience will be under greater scrutiny because they are from lesser known areas and mistakes will be magnified significantly. I hate to think what would have happened to the US referee program if Esse Baharmast had not been vindicated in those first 48 hours. The Brazilian media was incessant in it criticism of of the dumb yankees/gringos (and much worse). Had that video not surfaced, he wouldn't have been any less correct in his call, but the perception of him (and by extension American referees) would have been one of an incompetent fool who gets it wrong when it counts. As perception and image are SO important in what we do, people wouldn't trust him, no matter how good he was. I heard him speak a few months before the tournament and he talked about expectations for him: "as wise as Solomon and as pure as Ceasar's wife" (or something like that - it was a while ago). From the beginning of my participation here I've advocated second chances, and if you consistently work at a high level, you're more likely to get those chances, but if you are only in the spotlight briefly, you have to be pretty close to perfect. It's not fair, but it's quite real.
It was my understanding, and this is obviously true only after 1974, that the referee for the final was expected to retire at the end of the final, having gone as high as it was possible to go. I remember that people were shocked that Sandor Puhl continued to referee after doing the World Cup final, so he clearly marked the end of that expectation.
Gee, just like when a team wins the world cup, they fold the team because there is nothing left to accomplish . . . oh, wait, no . . . but then, that was also a different era -- IIRC, in the 70s FIFA refs were still unapid (though of course they recieved free travel, board, etc.)
Tangentially related to this, it would be interesting if an interviewer ever asks Howard Webb why he chose to pursue another World Cup. He didn't have to. He could have just done EPL. He could have retired altogether. He could have pursued only EURO 2012. Or he could have kept his FIFA badge, done UCL, but not pursued a World Cup. Having already reached the pinnacle, I wonder if it's... A) A desire to "redeem" himself for the 2010 Final B) A more simple desire to just always be the best he can until he has to retire C) Something else It was prerogative. And he certainly earned his place based on international performance. But, once you've done the biggest game you ever can possibly do, I wonder what motivates someone to go through the arduous process again of getting back to the tournament.
I guess it just doesn't seem surprising to me at all. I can't imagine you get to be a FIFA ref without deeply loving what you do. Why would you give up the "A" experiences and settle for "B" experiences just because you had the "A+" experience? For comparison, look at how few of the greatest athletes ever hung it up at the peak of their game -- it something that has driven them and been their life and its hard to walk away from. FIFAs mandatory retirement age, for all its flaws, does make refs walk away from the stage at or close to their peak, so we don't see the equivalent of Babe Ruth not being able to run past first base. (Not that I'm arguing in favor of the age -- I'd abolish it.)
Right, but it's understood that you don't referee the World Cup Final twice. With great athletes, you could always win another championship. I'm not saying he's crazy for wanting to go to the World Cup again. Far from it. I just wonder what his personal motivation is for pursuing it, particularly given the manner in which the last one ended. Also, it's not like his "non-A+" experiences are anything to sneeze at. He could have been reffing the biggest EPL, UCL and EURO 2012 games the past 3 years without the added pressure of trying to get back to a World Cup. Again, though, this isn't criticism. Just genuine curiosity as to what has motivated him since 2010.
Could it be in just trying to do the best job in each game that he could since then (what we should all strive for), and being selected again is just the result?
No, because he has also had to attend, I believe, three full conferences/seminars (one in Zurich, one in Rio and then a third--maybe also in Zurich?). So that was about 15-16 days of commitment. Plus the trip to the Confederations Cup, which I'm sure was fun, but was also a 3-week commitment for 2 games around the time when he'd normally be recuperating from EPL or taking a vacation. Then you add in the additional fitness testing. I'm not trying to argue it's some awful burden. But being a World Cup candidate is definitely an additional commitment that other referees don't have to cope with.
If his goal was first and foremost to referee the most important match in the world, and he knew he would never do so a second time, retiring from the WC grind might make sense. But if his goal is to referee the biggest, most important matches for as long as he can do so - and he still enjoys it - those meetings and other hurdles are just another step in continuing to do what he loves to do. No reason to retire yet. And Mass, I know I'm not saying anything you don't already know. I guess his continued involvement just doesn't seem that odd to me.
It's a lot easier a commitment for him than many others. Firstly, he is a full time professional referee in England. He doesn't have to worry about his policeman's job for the foreseeable future. His only burden is the added international appointments and how that impacts the amount of time he spends with his family.
Getting back to Africa we have to make a distinct between North Africa and the rest of the continent. The level of corruption is much greater outside of the North African nations. Generally, the leagues and specifically the facilities are better too in Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria and Egypt.
Add South Africa (and a couple other smaller South African countries like Namibia, Mauritius and Botswana).
Except that he just went back to his job with the police after a 5-year sabbatical, so that's not true. Look, I think everyone sort of missed the point of my initial post on this. I'm interested to have an interviewer ask Webb the question to see what his personal reasons or motivations for going again were. I'm not saying (at all) that he was wrong to want to do so or crazy or am I offering any other sort of criticism. I just think it's interesting that he wanted to return, particularly given how the 2010 Final went. I wonder if the way that match went played a motivating factor in him wanting to return (if the 2010 Final went smoothly, would he not have wanted to come back?). I just think hearing Webb's answer to that would offer interesting insight into his mind. He was in a position that no referee ever has been (reaching the absolute top, not doing well in the eyes of most objective observers, yet having the opportunity to return to the tournament) and no referee may be again for some time.
Okay so he's back to his policemen's job, he still has limited hours given his commitment to the Professional Referee's program. Webb only works 10 hours a week as a policeman. If I were Webb, I would hope for a chance at handling a second final and having the opportunity to correct the mistakes made in the Final in Johannesburg. Though that would be a stretch given what we know of how FIFA operates.