World Cup 2014 - Group F: Preview & Analysis

Discussion in 'Group F: Argentina, Bosnia, Iran, Nigeria' started by jimmi_moh, Dec 9, 2013.

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  1. Tukafo

    Tukafo Member+

    Oct 12, 2013
    Club:
    FC Bayern München

    I hate to jump into this whole Iran/Bosnia debate that seems to dominate half of the forums now but I like to point out the eternal flaw in your arguments - you keep bringing up past results and past tournaments as indication whether Iran are better than bosnia. It makes no sense to claim that Iran has been tested because they participated in WCs in 1978, 1998 or 2006. That 'test' won't be of any benefit to the current team as it's of course a completely different team with totally different players. The same goes for the H2H record. First of all friendlies are rarely a good indicator of strength ( recently Switzerland beat Brazil but would you really say that Switzerland have a better chance at the WC than Brazil?) and furthermore again these friendlies didn't feature the current teams in their current strength. Past results are an especially poor indicator for bosnia as the country is a very new and young country that started out as fairly weak and took a few years to get stronger. Personally I have no idea who will win between these two but the arguments are flawed. The match will be decided on the current form of the current players and not on the form of totally different players in 2004.
     
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  2. Team Melli forever

    Jul 11, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    I generally agree with what you said and personally I'm not saying Iran is necessarily better than Bosnia or vice versa but the latest Bosnia-Iran duel, which was held in Bosnia is only 3 years old and did feature most of the same team that is playing today. Actually Iran didn't have any of their current best players in that match while Bosnia did. I know this doesn't prove anything nor indicate Iran's superiority but you can definitely eliminate the heavily one sided argument against Iran with these examples. I'd say 99% of what I've heard from neutral sources make Bosnia to be head and shoulders above Iran, I noticed no one even gives Iran a second thought, which is completely counter to the facts:

     
  3. persianfootball

    persianfootball Member+

    Aug 5, 2004
    outside your realm
    i dont see any first team players from Iran in that team. and bosnia had their best team? lol. i checked bosnias current squad and although they have a few more euro based players than us, other than dzeko there is not much of a difference in quality. plus, we have more experienced players and we play better as a team. it should be an nice game and i think Iran will come out on top.
     
  4. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    The point about Iran’s past record in the World Cup is to make an altogether different point. Football is a game where often a goal or two scored over 90 minutes separates two teams. There is almost as much a mental element in the results that you get in football as anything else. The record I mentioned is relevant in that part of the equation.

    It may be coincidence that Iran has never gone pointless in any tournament, but I don’t think it is. The same way I don’t think Iran losing every semifinal match in the Asian Cup since the revolution (usually on penalties, even against teams much worse than us, five times), isn’t just coincidence and is not about who was better or worse. The same way, I don’t think its coincidence that South Korea never won any game in any World Cup before they hosted in 2002, and since hosting have a much better chance of winning games even when they aren’t really all that good as in 2006. To me, this all has as much to do with what you expect of yourself individually as players, and as a team, as anything else.

    In the case of Iran, going pointless is not in our resume and I think there is a reason for that, even if the ceiling that we set for ourselves also has its reasons that go beyond football. I do want us to break that ceiling though, hopefully in this World Cup!

    No two games are identical or entirely dispositive. Whether they are friendlies, or otherwise. A team can beat one team in the same tournament (Iran 3 Saudi Arabia 0 in Asian Cup 1996 in the group stage), and then lose to the same side (Saudi Arabia beating Iran on penalties in the semifinal match in the same tournament).

    But a head to head record that shows a consistent pattern over many games cannot be easily dismissed. That is especially true when the best Bosnian players, except for their new goalie, have all played against Iran. Dzeko scored both their goals against us in 2009 and what they fielded against us in front of 20,000 Bosnian fans (for a small country, that is a big crowd) was the same team they were using in World Cup qualifying in Europe. The same team that finished runner up only to Spain in their group, ahead of Belgium and Turkey and Armenia and Estonia.

    So I think the head to head record matters. But certainly it is not dispositive. The game is played anew at the World Cup. We are just offering our best predictions, or at least the predictions that best fit our preferences!

    P.S.

    I will do analysis of the talent and players each team boasts, although I don't find that a more reliable guide either.
     
  5. Zandi360

    Zandi360 Member+

    Dec 10, 2013
    Club:
    Sepahan
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    #30 Zandi360, Dec 10, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2013
    For now I wont have a prediction because it is impossible. We have to wait and see with the friendlies each team play. But in my opinion if I have anything to give now it will look like that:
    1. Argentina
    2.Nigeria
    3. Iran
    4. Bosnia

    Most predictions on different website have no clue and never seen Iran play it seems and their prediction is most of the time inaccurate.
    The fact is, most Iranians know more about the Bosnian NT than Bosnians do about the Iranian NT. This is why I would suggest the Bosnian people to try to be more objective and not to be cocky considering their past H2H results against Iran that they shouldn't be proud of and also considering the fact that they are WC beginners/newbies. And knowing both teams pretty well, I'd say Bosnians are wrong about their prediction of their match vs Iran. If Bosnia wins, and I doubt it would happen, it would be max by one goal difference. Iran's current defense is like a brick wall and must be up there in the top 20 best in the world.
    If I had to predict I would most likely predict a draw between the two teams but anything can happen in football :)

    International football is not a game where you compare the lineups of 2 teams and see which players play in which better team. (ex Messi plays in FCB so Argentina's gonna win. Dzeko plays for Man City so were gonna destroy you) Im sure most of you would be glad if that would've been the case. But it's more of a team chemistry game, how effective can the team be in their tactics and how well they can execute them. Iran is in a very bad political situation where it excludes them from the rest of the world, therefore scouts don't come that much, or their players reject the European offers for personal issues, most commonly because they dont want to risk their economic situation (one of Iran's strikers Ansarifard rejected Dortmund's offer in 2011 because of that).
    I would say most likely you can prepare yourself for an unpleasant surprise if you think they are going to be pushovers.

    Here's a good read about that too that I found few sec ago:
    http://www.givemesport.com/409091-iran-can-provide-world-cup-shock-next-summer
     
  6. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    You are absolutely right. The classic example of this would be Iran facing Yugoslavia in World Cup 1998. The Serbs had a roster full of highly regarded European based players, including the over rated Mijatovic. On the pitch, they were not better than Iran whose team consisted mostly of home based players.

    That said, I am in the process of putting together my analysis of how the two sides compare in terms of talent as well. I will post that soon.

    While articles that relate to Iran are generally bad, and this one may be better, it too has its errors and omissions. For instance, and there a few other mistakes, our last match against Bosnia was in 2009, not 2006. Important mistake because it tends to make it seem like our results against Bosnia are more dated than they are.
     
  7. spuzzaccute

    spuzzaccute Member

    Nov 5, 2013
    switzerland
    Club:
    FK Sarajevo
    Nat'l Team:
    Bosnia-Herzegovina
    Too much talking from Iran fans.
    Bosnians doesnt underestimate any team
    We know what are we capable of.
    Everything can happen.
    And please dont compare past games, just look at that friendlie game, we lead 2:0 and than our bad def and gk just give up last 10min.
    Bosnian NT is geting better and better every year so l want 2 wins next year in WC
    Good luck to all teams in group F
     
  8. Zandi360

    Zandi360 Member+

    Dec 10, 2013
    Club:
    Sepahan
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    #33 Zandi360, Dec 10, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2013
    Yup you lead 2-0 but a match is a match and we can find thousands of excuses to be honest when we loose. Reality is that football is a 90 minutes match and you lost fair and square in your own home with the presence of your current star Dzeko ;)
    And Of course. Anything can happen especially in this group :) I really like Bosnia's NT, and especially Pjanic since I am half-French and I really liked him when he played in Ligue 1!

    Good luck to all teams as you said!

    This can be very interesting! :) I look forward to it. I would agree that currently Bosnian team has more talent that the Iranian team though overall.
     
  9. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    #34 Iranian Monitor, Dec 10, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2013
    Here is how Iran's talent matches against Bosnia's on paper, as well as how that talent compared to ours in my rough estimation. My rating uses a Kicker style 1-5 scale and I will have more to explain my ratings later, as I will also explain why market values for Bosnian players would be higher than for Iranian players even for players of the same caliber.

    I will start in goal, where Bosnia enjoys an advantage, but where Iran is not lacking either, and proceed with our respective central defenders. In a subsequent message I will cover the outside backs and defensive midfielders, while I then proceed with looking at the attacking midfielders and forwards.

    Goalkeepers: (Advantage Bosnia, but I don't think Iran has worries here with Davari)

    Asmir Begovic (Bosnia #1 Keeper)
    [​IMG]
    Current Club: Stoke City (English Premier League)
    Market Value: 7.000.000 €
    My Rating: (1.5)

    versus

    Daniel Davari (Iran's Likely #1 Keeper)
    [​IMG]

    Current Club: Eintracht Braunschweig (German Bundesliga)
    Market Value: 800.000 €
    My Rating: (3)
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Central Defenders: (Advantage to Iran in my book)


    Seyed Jalal Hosseini (Long-time Veteran Starter for Iran in his post)
    [​IMG]
    Market value: 2.000.000€
    Current Club: Perspolis Tehran (Iran Professional League)
    My Rating: (2.5)


    Pejman Montazeri (Starting Central Defender for Iran under Quieroz)
    Market value: 1.200.000 €
    Current Club: Esteghlal Tehran (Iran Professional League)
    My Rating: (3)

    versus

    Emir Spahic (Bosnia's captain and veteran CB)
    [​IMG]
    Market value: 3.000.000 €
    Current Club: Bayer Leverkusen (German Bundesliga)
    My Rating: (3)

    Ermin Bicakcic (Bosnian teammate of Davari at Eintracht Brauchshweig)
    Market value: 2.200.000 €
    Current Club: Eintracht Braunschweig (German Bundesliga)
    My Rating: (3.5)
     
  10. spuzzaccute

    spuzzaccute Member

    Nov 5, 2013
    switzerland
    Club:
    FK Sarajevo
    Nat'l Team:
    Bosnia-Herzegovina
    Hahaha Bičakćić "Bico"
    Kolašinac "Kola" > Bico
    Kola > Hosseini+Montazeri
    Young, talented, good, big, Bosnian rock
     
  11. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    But "Kola" is not a central defender, but your left fullback. You need to compare him with Iran's right fullback, Khosrow Heidari.

    Khosrow Heidari (Iranian RB)

    Market value: Not listed because he has been injured and hasn’t played for Iran recently, but he is one of the highest paid in Iran and therefore would be worth more than 2.000.000 £ on the transfer market
    Current Club: Esteghlal Tehran (Iranian Professional League)
    My Rating: (2.5)

    versus

    Saed Kolasinac (Bosnian LB)
    Market Value: 2.750.000 €
    Current Club: Shallke 04 (German Bundesliga)
    My Rating: (2.5)
     
  12. spuzzaccute

    spuzzaccute Member

    Nov 5, 2013
    switzerland
    Club:
    FK Sarajevo
    Nat'l Team:
    Bosnia-Herzegovina
    My rating 4.5 :thumbsup:
     
  13. Anders Holmvik

    Oct 17, 2013
    No point arguing with these idiots, he rated Bego 1.5 LMFAO. Their only arguments are that the beat us before in friendlies and that they were in the WC before and they keep regurgitating these moot arguments ad nauseum.
     
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  14. Team Melli 2014

    Dec 9, 2013
    Club:
    Perspolis
    dude read his comments carefully before insulting! he is using Kicker's scale, and 1.5 is actually pretty high, the best note being 1 and worst being 5. now let's see who the idiot is.
     
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  15. Zandi360

    Zandi360 Member+

    Dec 10, 2013
    Club:
    Sepahan
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    Hey, ever heard of kicker rating? Calm the f down dude.
     
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  16. spuzzaccute

    spuzzaccute Member

    Nov 5, 2013
    switzerland
    Club:
    FK Sarajevo
    Nat'l Team:
    Bosnia-Herzegovina
    Iranian fans are over rating their players and NT. Whats your point? Whats wrong with you?
    What do you want to hear?
    That your team is something special.
    We will see in Brazil how good you are.
    Until then keep training hard.
    Once again good luck at WC
     
  17. Rostam

    Rostam Member

    Dec 11, 2005
    1- Argentina 9 pts.
    2- Iran 6 pts.
    3- Nigeria 1 pt.
    4- Bosnia 1 pt.
     
  18. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    A serious question for Iran fans :

    How does C. Queiroz comunicate himself with his players ?, directly or with translators ?. Does he speak, or has he learned iranian language ?
    :cautious:
     
  19. Rostam

    Rostam Member

    Dec 11, 2005
    first, the Iranian language is called Persian.

    He does have a translator like a foreign coach anywhere else. Don't know if he has picked up a few inspiring words.
     
    Rickdog repped this.
  20. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Thanks for the answer, here is another related to the issue :

    how many translators does he uses ? do they translate his portuguese to persian, or from english to persian ?
     
  21. Zandi360

    Zandi360 Member+

    Dec 10, 2013
    Club:
    Sepahan
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    I think he speaks in English which is translated to Persian. And he speaks English with the players that play or played in Europe.
     
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  22. Zandi360

    Zandi360 Member+

    Dec 10, 2013
    Club:
    Sepahan
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    Please say how they are overrating when you have never seen them play? haha. Overrating means rating over their actual performance. Did you ever see them perform? The mistake many Bosnians make I say it again, is judging the team when they don't know them.
     
  23. Team Melli 2014

    Dec 9, 2013
    Club:
    Perspolis
    He has one translator and speaks english. Most players understand basic english. I beilieve he also speaks spanish directly with our current and ex-spain based players i.e. nekounam and shojaei
     
  24. persianfootball

    persianfootball Member+

    Aug 5, 2004
    outside your realm
    it appears like certain bosnians here are proving some people who think bosnians are a certain way, right.
     
  25. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    I will continue with my comparison of the players on the two teams, focusing now on central midfield.

    For Iran, the top central midfielders are our captain Javad Nekounam, who spent around 6 seasons in La Liga with Osasuna and his present teammate in Esteghlal, Andranik Teymourian who had a spell with some EPL clubs before coming back to Iran. I rate both of them highly, even if I can't give either of them a (1.5) as I did for Bosnia's goalie, Begovic.;)

    Compared to Bosnia, who seem to rely on, Sejad Salhovic (Hoffenhiem, German Bundesliga) and Adnan Zahriovic (Bochum Bundesliga2) in central midfield, I definitely give Iran the edge in this area.

    Javad Nekounam(Iranian DM and captain)
    [​IMG]

    Market Value: 1.500.000 €
    Current Club: Esteghlal Tehran (Iranian Professional League)
    My rating: (2)

    Andranik Teymourian (Iranian DM)
    [​IMG]

    Market Value: 2.000.000 €
    Current Club: Esteghlal Tehran (Iranian Professional League)
    My rating: (2)

    versus


    Sejad Salhovic (Bosnian DM)
    [​IMG]
    Market value: 5.000.000 €
    Current Club: Hoffenheim (German Bundesliga)
    My rating (2)

    Adnan Zahirovic (Bosnian DM)
    [​IMG]
    Market Value: 600.000 €
    Current Club: Vfl Bochum (Bundesliga2, Germany)
    My Rating: (4)

    Bosnia, however, have some excellent talent when it comes to attacking midfielders and strikers. What I will do next is to compare players like Dzeko, Ibisevic, Pjanic, and Misimovic, with what Iran has in the attacking midfield and forward positions. While Bosnia clearly has an edge here, Iran boast some very good talent here as well.
     

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