Jozy typically plays against a much higher level of competition though, I have no doubt he'd score of tons of goals in MLS and probably would in Mexico as well; continuing your baseball stats analogy that would be like comparing AA stats to Major League stats, which is not very relevant, unless you have some way of properly adjusting. Agudelo is likely getting playing time as a prospect as a opposed to what he right now.
Think back to the play that Clint Mathis made to set up Josh Wolff's goal against Mexico back in February 2001. The brilliance of the play is not dependent on Wolff getting a lucky touch after Campo initially making contact with the ball. The quality JOB's pass to Mathis against Korea in 2002 would not have been diminished if Mathis had not finished. Soccer like many sports is a sport where the accretion of chances is enormously important. Not all the chances are converted. But the more you create the better your chances. Plays that lead to shots or red cards are very important even if they do not lead to goals. Anyone who watches a game knows that. Luck, bad calls by the ref, and all that evens out. To me guys like Altidore and Agudelo lead to a greater accumulation of dangerous opportunities than Gomez and Wondo and over time that leads to more goals and more wins.
Gomez in MLS and Mexico scored/scores at a higher rate than Altidore in MLS and EPL and Turkey and Holland. I still think Altidore has great potential but based on numbers it does not make sense that Herc is not subbed in the second half of every single game first off the bench. Every single match that we are not scoring.
When Jozy was in MLS he was not a massive goal-scoring machine. Why do people just assume he is our best option for scoring goals when he never has proven that to be the case at the club or national team level in any year ever?
The thing is, we need someone to finish those chances. We have several finishers who outclass everyone else in the USMNT pool statistically, yet we don't play them, and we don't score goals. The answer to the problem is not to just keep doing what we have been doing. I'm not sure what "over time" is supposed to mean. A month, a year, a decade? Here's my answer: I think the next two friendlies should have Wondo playing in them as a starter or sub. He won't be doing anything else after this weekend.
Altidore scored 15 goals in 37 games in MLS, which isn't terribly off the pace of Wondolowski is doing now in his prime (and much better than anything Wondo did up until a few years ago and better than anything Gomez ever did in MLS or at Pachuca) and he was doing this as a teenager, he was only 17 when started up in MLS. I have no doubt he'd be dominant MLS scorer and I really doubt Wondo or Gomez would have been successful scorers at Hull or Villarreal. So far Jozy is scoring at similar pace at AZ as Gomez is scoring at Estudiantes, against better competition.
once again - I showed the #'s of Altidore and Gomez at the start of this topic ... Jozy is not scoring at a similiar pace per minute at AZ or did he in Villareal or Turkey or at Hull or with the Red Bulls. He is working harder and doing better but for some reason Herc just scores more per minute for club and country. Others can debate the why - I am just pointing out the numbers. Jozy is 3 goals in 7 appearances (roughly 450 minutes total) or 150 minutes per goal in league play with AZ and h scored 4 goals in 4 matches in Europa Cup with 2 of them in a 6 - 0 drubbing against one team. Adding that together gives 7 goals in 11 matches (over 700 minutes total) or about 100 minutes per goal during this hot streak .... (Gomez still has a higher per minute as a super sub) .... Jozy also has totaled 12 goals (7 of them with AZ ... all Europe clubs before that he only scored 5 times with Villareal, Hull, and in Turkey all together) in 70 appearances in Europe total - pretty low actually for a striker. 70 matches is about 4000-5000 minutes - about 300-350 minutes per goal - pretty low average. So he is on his hottest scoring pace with AZ - clearly. But it is still less than Gomez has averaged throughout his career and his current pace with Tecos as well. I still think a strong case can be made that Gomez always needs to be the first sub if we have not scored and even Wondo has a case as well. I hope JK calls them both in and gives Herc serious minutes. The statistics indicate he will score. And at 2 goals in 5 matches we have a problem at the moment.
Ya, we disagree then, b/c Jozy has never produced at that level except for a few stretches of a few games early in his MLS career where he was hot. Most people give him credit for playing in harder leagues, but in the end he was not good enough for any of those teams b/c none of them wanted him back. None of them.
statistically this his best year overseas in terms of scoring goals - specifically with AZ he is producing ... he is working harder and being more physical and playing more two way ... but even with that his goal scoring % is lower than Gomez. I still maintain that JK has it right by starting Altidore - where I differ is that I think Gomez needs to go in between minute 45 - 60 if we have not yet scored. He needs to be on the bench for every single match he is healthy for the next 2 or 3 years. His historical (more than this year) track record is that he finds a way to score goals more often per minute than anybody else we have available right now. The fact that JK has not called Gomez in consistently is troubling.
Yes Jozy is doing well at AZ, but the Dutch league seems to be easier to score in than the Prem - although he has also been scoring in the Europa League. I'm not sure that I would say it is harder to score in the Eredivisie than in MLS, but I don't watch a lot of Euro football so I'm not comfortable making that statement definitively. However, just because the pay is better there doesn't mean that it is harder to score there. I mean, Michael Bradley was scoring goals in bunches in the Dutch league and it dropped off precipitously once he left for the BL, for the Prem and for Serie A although there can be various reasons for that to happen.
Jozy just lost his starting spot - look at IVES. The players that should be starters in national team should be those leading their league in scoring and are playing regularly in a competitive league. The national team is not for development. Stop bringing in potentials such as Agudelo and Bunbury. We need goals.
Not sure why him not starting in one game is such a big story considering what Jozy has been through over the last three years. I don't understand where this thread went; we don't have to drop Jozy to bring Herculez in.
1. Jozy is a starter 2. Gomez should be called up. If Castillo, Orozco can get looks then so should Gomez. 3. Agudelo hasn't done anything since the Mexico game.
How are Mexican clubs handling MLS teams this weekend like AA or AAA? This past week Monterrey beat Seattle 2-1 and Santos beat Colorado 2-0.
He has had outstanding scoring record in MLS for teenager. Not so sure he'd light it up Mexico with average service. In the Eredivisie he plays for a high scoring team in a high scoring league. Despite getting excellent service from Donovan, Dempsey, and pre-injury Davies Altidore wasn't exactly lighting it up internationally.
Jozy has a pretty good scoring rate against the Mexican National Team, which I believe is better than Mexican club teams. What does that prove? Statistics have their uses but can be twisted to absurdity.
Re: Mike Bradley, part of it is indeed that Eredivisie is an attacking league, but equally his role changed. That doesn't apply to Jozy.
Gomez scores and he does it off the bench. Not exactly an area we have of expertise at the moment. Bring him to Europe.
Every team can benefit from a veteran off the bench who has a knack for finishing. Gomez seems like the best fit for that role at this time. Generally, I'd start Altidore and Dempsey up top, with Gomez and one of the kids on the bench.