Why No Ultras In England?

Yes, in England. and I most certainly have been to more matches than you... In a lot of Countries not just England. Not every country is like England you ignorant t**t

oh and according to your little rule Spurs would have oversang Wisla in Krakow which didn't happen

In England, yes. And that's only since the days of all-seater stadiums.

It's not true everywhere else.

All I would add is that when fans do get roused in England, they tend to be really good. The almost regimented feel of "Ultras" style support can be a little one-paced at times, while a good English crowd will ebb & flow with the game.

I'd have to agree with that, times have changed and the atmosphere can be dead at some games but when it starts it is as good as anywhere. Players do still often cite the fans and atmosphere as one of the draws of English football so it can't be that bad, it's just a shame it's not as loud as it once was.

Our recent trip to Anfield is a good example. While I'm not a Liverpool fan I used to enjoy going to Anfield as an away fan, the atmosphere was always special. Two weeks ago Anfield was a library. There were at least two reasons you could see straight away. The away fans were constantly told to sit down and behave by the stewards, so little atmosphere was coming from us for the Liverpool fans to respond to. A bloke near me was thrown out for swearing early on, ironically by a steward announcing "come on you Dingle b*****d, you're out". That put us all in our place and we all sulked for a bit.

The biggest thing was looking at the make-up of the home fans around us. We used to have great banter with the average Liverpool fan near us, but over the recent years it's more and more become a case of a good percentage of people are obviously at Anfield for the first time or on an annual pilgrimage or similar. Cameras constantly in the air, getting excited when they see Torres come out for a warm up and looking bemused at any singing from us. They've obviously made a lot of effort to be there and I wish them well, but they're not going to generate atmosphere. In short, we're a victim of our success.

Having said that, and I don't want to get into an "our fans are better than yours" contest, but I've lived in Germany, and been to a lot of games. I like the Germans and made a lot of friends there, but their atmosphere can be as dead as anywhere. There are good games and bad games just like here. Not sure where you got that comparison from matiomo. Maybe it's just been a choice of games.

As for the others, they still have a hooligan reputation and that's when our atmosphere was at its best before we got told to sit down and behave. Shame you can't take the bad bits away and leave the atmosphere.

To answer the actual thread, it's a culture thing. We support our teams in a way we enjoy and they do the same. Besides, if we set a flare off we'd get thrown out.

Why No Ultras In England

Can you believe how wrong that website is? Theres even a fantasy section where they write stories. I couldnt go far enough along to find out if they were written by her or fans. But I read a few posts on the forum. Its a bunch of weirdos trying to hook up with her.

Can anyone tell me if anywhere abroad you get the 'piss take' chants you do in England.

For instance West Hams recent - Chelsea wherever you may be, dont leave your wife with John Terry!

I have a feeling i'm gonna get chewed out for this...but...

I live for the atmosphere created by flares, flags, banners, and chants almost as much as I do the actual game. I live in the US so the only taste of soccer I get is from Fox Soccer Channel, Setanta, Gol TV, etc. So watching from a not-in-the-stadium standpoint, I can deal without the singing and artificial atmosphere created by fans/ultras.

But if I were to go and see a match live I would definately want there to be some more pasionate fans there with me.

Now along the lines of ultras. Correct me if i'm wrong, but a bunch of these ultras groups started with arguments between political parties and factions. I don't support that at all. Nobody cares if that guy over there at gate 7 is a right winger or not, just watch the game. I would want to be there with a group of ultras who use flares, banners, and chants to simply support my team of choice. But I don't think that's very realistic.

I watch youtube vids of "Hooligans" and "Ultras" all the time and I cannot lie it is some of the most awe inspiring fan choreo and support i've ever seen. But ince it is hinged on hate and politics I do lose a bit of respect for it.

Summary: I love the atmosphere that dedicated fans can provide for games. It adds intimidation to a match and can be inspiring. I do not like the violent and political ties that the ultras have with them.

Yep, teams in some countries can be political. In England there's hardly any. But in over countries of the europe it is political. Germany,Poland,Serbia etc... most of them Right winged. because most Ultras and Hooligans are patriots. But there are some anti-racists ( St. Pauli) and Che worshippers. Lazio is the most extreme political team that i can think of... just search some pictures on the internet

Yeah, we do that in Poland and i think that they do it in most countries.

Oh please.

That UEFA cup game was completely meaningless, hence why Tottenham were playing the likes of Gunter, Dos Santos, Bent and Frazier Campbell. Second string players, second string competition, hopelessly mediocre and uninspiring opposition in Wisla and a suitably reserved environment.

That may have been some massive event for Polish fans, for Tottenham it was trivial compared to what was going on in the Premiership that year and impending change of manager. To use it as any basis for comparison or argument is completely idiotic.

excuses,excuses... Your support is rubbish. the ground was full so stop talking shit... good thinking "we only support our team in the big games" hahahaha. dickhead

Creating an intimidating or rousing atmosphere is fine, but I do resent the use of the word "Hardcore" for the fascist and violent groups. Those types are there perhaps more for the agenda and/or the opportunity to get into a scrap than for the football itself. To me, "hardcore" is based on your feeling for the team and how into it you are.

For me, it's not the guy who stands in the crowd underneath a 20ft flag, physically incapable of seeing the game, singing along because he enjoys the atmosphere. It's the guy who has supported and loved the same team for decades, through thick and thin, who arranges his entire life about attending every game humanly possible, whether it's at home, away or the other side of the continent and (should he choose to sing) sings his heart out because he wants to create an atmosphere that helps his team.

^ agree. waving a bunch of flags doesnt mean shit.

Yeah, this looks boring doesn't it?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHywRb9megA"]YouTube- ATMOSPHERE: Dortmund-Schalke[/ame]

I agree with this.

yeah atmosphere in england is rubbish innit, just spain has worse atmosphere out of the big leagues

I must be a bit of a footballing oddity. I've never gone in for this "Tribalism" element to the game. I actually go to matches to see a game of football. Yeah, I can get cranked up at lousy refereeing, or unseen skulduggery by opponents players. I've even been known to shout a hearty hurrah when my team scores a goal. I like atmosphere. I like the buzz, but it doesn't have to come from flares or flags.

Seriously...... isn't all this nonsense about flares and flags and the glazed-eyed glare of individuals completely taken over by the occasions.... isn't this all so much penis-waving? "Look at us, we've got bigger flags than you". To be honest, there are few things more irritating than sitting in the stand behind some wally with a huge flag, who feels the need to wave it every time his team gains possession, thus obscuring the view of the match for the three rows of seats immediately behind him.

Another irritation is the drum. Somebody got a drum for Christmas, they've worked out what the big stick that came with it is for and by jove, they're going to use it..!! I once saw a very large gentleman get up from his seat and go over to the goon with the drum. He didn't shout or rave, he didn't make a scene, he simply leaned over, said something in the drum beaters ear and then went back to his seat. The drumming stopped. At half time, I ambled over and asked this guy what he'd said. He told me that he'd simply informed the drum beater that he could either stop what he was doing or he would be going home with a drum up his a**e. The guy's size, appearance and delivery had obviously convinced chummy that he meant it and was capable of carrying out the promise.

Yes, we want atmosphere at matches, but when I was a kid, we didn't thump drums and the biggest thing getting waved was a team scarf. We generated atmosphere with great throaty roars of encouragement.... We sung songs.... We had our club chants.....There was a palpable tension in the air that made the hair on the back of your neck stand up. You heard the atmosphere at one level, but you felt it on an altogether higher plane. You could almost smell the testosterone in the air.

I would compare the Spion Kop of Bill Shankley's day to the pale shadow of itself that it is today. The Kop of the 60's and 70's was a seething, boiling, pulsating mass of humanity. They didn't have drums or klaxons or ten foot squre flags (the big flags are a modern feature). Shanks said the Kop was worth a goal's start to Liverpool, and nobody doubted it. OK, so the modern day loss of terracing has had a pacifying influence on a) the numbers of people who can watch from there and b) their behaviour. But that misses the point.

The point is that we don't need these artificial additions. Forty thousand people, roaring as one will generate plenty of atmosphere all by itself. When a herd mentality kicks into the human psyche the whole becomes greater than the sum of its parts. All those people, in sync with each other.....

who needs one plonker with a drum..?

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I can do without the flags and drums but sometimes I'm shocked at how quiet EPL games can get.

Man City versus Liverpool a few weeks ago comes to mind. It sounded like Tennis match. Very, very quiet for long stretches of the game until something happened, then some clapping....then silence.

Really weird I thought.

Chants create great atmosphere and they're good fun especially with a few drinks in you. Flags are fine as long as I can still watch the match. Banners are ok before the match, but I get really annoyed when people in front of me hold up banners for long periods of time during play. What's the point? Ruin the experience for everyone else because you have a clever message? The only thing I am unequivocally against is the vuvuzela. Thanks to WC 2010 I now know what hell sounds like.

You only get Ultras In fascist countries that are corrupt to the core.



Which comes to think of it. England should have loads.


I don't know why.

I go to England (London) a few times a year and in the past two years have been to games ranging from UEFA Champions League matches (Tottenham-Bremen) to Npower League 2 matches (Barnet.) I think the atmosphere has been fantastic at every single one of these matches and I could even argue that fans for a lower league team such as Crystal Palace can create a better atmosphere than a top of the table premiership team such as Chelsea. I also attended almost every single Philadelphia Union game over the summer and while I personally love the atmosphere created by the fantastic Sons of Ben's with their smoke bombs, occasional flares, and tifo displays, I do not think they compare to the atmosphere presented at a match in England.

Would love to hear some responses?

I'm with you on that one, brother.

you've must of not gone to a wigan match. i still don't see how in the blue hell they are in the premier league, they are league one level at best. ahead of such great supporters as wolves, forest, derby, birmingham, leeds, wednesday. heck, even my charlton has better supporters than wigan and as much as i love the undisputed kings of south london, we're not always the most vocal of supporters.