Yes, I'm dragging this up again. I have a certain sympathy for MLS and scheduling difficulties. I know the league can't take a week off for a national team game, but why the hell can't they take a Wednesday night off? Two MLS games, including a game a Houston that actually overlaps the Nats. This is an amazingly stupid move by MLS.
I am guessing because the MLS game was scheduled before the USMNT game was. And I don't know for sure but I am wondering if these games were rescheduled - MLS games are usually Thursdays so two games on a Wednesday is odd.
This issue has been one of my favorites. There have been numerous threads on this topic previously. I'm sure someone can dig up and link to some of those gems. The "time" of the game, yes, but the date of the game is the important issue here. MLS, imo, would be wise to take a look at Fifa's calendar and do their best to schedule around it. The Fifa Coordinated International Match calendar is released several years in advance. MLS has long been comfortable ignoring that document. http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/documentlibrary/calendars.html http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/wor...lmc-fifa-dates-2008-2014-updatemay2008-en.pdf All be it this 8/20 date is a "friendly" date, but one that Concacaf is using for official competition (given the fixture needs of the Concacaf WCQ format). here's an ongoing thread for this season: International Duty & MLS Matches Missed 2008 http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=698542
Yes - but as you said this is a POSSIBLE friendly date. MLS can't avoid all these dates but I do find it odd that a game is scheduled for Wednesday to begin with - very few this year on Wednesdays. For all we know this could be the only date NE could get since they don't control the scheduling at Gillette.
"MLS can't avoid all these dates" disagree with this statement. MLS could avoid these dates if it was a business priority of theirs. But clearly, the league isn't at a point where it wants to schedule around all Fifa dates (friendly and official competition) as it would require sacrifices in other areas (theoretically more games played midweek and/or in colder months to compensated for the "missed" Fifa weekends/periods for international competition). Many leagues (including some of the best as those leagues know their teams would be missing several players on those international dates and that would devalue those league games) schedule around the Fifa Coordinated International Match calendar. Some leagues do not. It's frustrating to me as a fan that MLS is among those that create these scheduling conflicts. Perhaps at some point the league will in fact not conflict with Fifa's International calendar. the scheduling at shared venues certainly is an issue. the other big issue is that MLS opened up the July schedules for the teams in SuperLiga, as that tournament is a priority for MLS/SUM (and those July dates easily could have been used for the DC@NE and CUSA@HOU matches.) There's a lot a play here and it is not an easy task to schedule around Fifa's international match calendar, but I do think a more mature MLS will want to and be able to do just that.
It seems IMO, MLS should keep a flexible calender for situations like this... Really. What is the big deal about changing a wed. game to a non conflicting date?
As I said before, I have some sympathy on this - both the Revs and Dynamo play second fiddle at their stadiums. Plus, they had Superliga committments. However, why can't the play the games on Tursday or even Tuesday? At the very least, Houston move up their game an hour and then show the NT game on the big screen right after the MLS game concluded.
But how could you reschedule the NE-DC game? Both are coming out of Superliga, both went deep into the US Open Cup, and both are heading into the CCL. Hell, DC has 7 games in August, 7 games in September, and 8 in October. There is simply no way to reschedule this game.
yes, rescheduling games is rather difficult (especially when there is not true venue control for the MLS teams). in a perfect (and economically unrealistic at this point) world all MLS teams would play in their own stadium. with rescheduling being so difficult, it seems extra care and effort needs to be put in the scheduling process. I do wonder if MLS has anyone actually looking at the 2009 league schedule at this point, or if that is something they just try to cobble together and make an effective schedule once the new year roles around. I do recall an article from a year or three ago that states there is actually one guy would works on and adjusts and sets the schedule before each season starts. seems like it should be a bigger (especially with all these new CCL fall match dates) and more important task than that.
However, with the reality of teams not in SSS what is the point? NE is not going to commit to any dates until the Patriots lock in their dates. And even though they have an SSS - the Galaxy and Chivas need to know when the damned X-Games are going to destroy HDC. In a perfect theoritical world, yes someone should be looking at this now. However, reality and its moving pieces dictate otherwise. Hell, even in a perfect world where soccer dictates scheduling you would need to wait until the end of the season to find out which teams qualified for the CCL. MLS has indicated, and IMO rightfully so, they are more willing to accomodate scheduling changes for the MLS teams in the CCL than WC qualifiying.
It's not about rescheduling. It's about not scheduling on this date in the first place. Obviously these 4 teams had to fit in these midweek games somewhere in the schedule because they are the 4 teams that played in the Superliga. But was there not a single midweek date available at some other point in the year? Perhaps somewhere in the April-June timeframe, before the US Open Cup or any other extra competition started? Or could they not have been scheduled for Tuesday? Tuesday wouldn't solve the player absence problem, but at least then they aren't on at the same time as the WCQ. There have been plenty of Tuesday games in the US Open Cup and Superliga; it's not as if the league couldn't handle the occasional Tuesday game. MLS isn't going to give up weekend dates to accommodate the international calendar, that is clear. But some effort could be taken to avoid the Wednesday internationals.
excellent points. this just again points to the frustration (for me as a fan) that MLS is one of those leagues that doesn't put priority on recognizing and avoiding the dates on Fifa's international calendar. yes, MLS is a young league with many scheduling issues, but I contend they aren't doing enough address the problem (or maybe they are addressing it, but it is a slow process and it's tough for the fans to see any progress, if it is indeed being made). I can't imagine people are happy about Ching missing Houston's game on Wed. Yes, it is a small isolated incident this week, but those add up, imo. if fact, I contend the league really suffers an image and likeability issue (from players and fans alike) when it requires players to be in two places at once -- and of course it's going to lose out to Country in those instances, and it's going to lose out, imo, on attracting players who want an international career, as I tend to think players might potentially look down on a league that doesn't respect their clubs/players enough to avoid the conflict with Fifa's international calendar (and yes, that may be a bit of a stretch of an unprovable idea/argument, but I do think there is a issue there -- in terms of MLS being able to sign/retain NT quality players). as was stated, with the July window being cleared for the SL teams, perhaps it would have been smarter for MLS to try to get these 8/20 games scheduled at some point in Apr-June. of course, maybe the league didn't know the details of Fall addition to the CCL and how those games affect the schedule as well.
2009 will be a real scheduling challenge. MLS again won't be able to avoid all of the international dates, and that is a shame. here are just some of the scheduling issues that confront the league next year (assuming advancement of teams, obviously) -- spring conclusion of the CCL 10 USMNT WCQ matches USMNT participation in the Concacaf Gold Cup USMNT participation in the Confederations Cup potential USMNT friendly matches 2009 SuperLiga fall start to the next CCL http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/wor...lmc-fifa-dates-2008-2014-updatemay2008-en.pdf and the wonderful fact that there will be 15 teams in the league, and an odd number of teams makes scheduling that much more difficult and quirky. I do wonder if MLS might consider cutting back to a 28-game league schedule next year. obviously teams could still play more than 14 home matches given international competitions and the potential for club friendlies.
Exactly. End of story. THEY feel it's bad for business. Many FANS feel it's good for the game. I'll hang up and listen to your answer while you tell me what usually wins out in a battle between competitive concerns and financial concerns.
The league knew about the CCL schedule. It's no coincidence that the 5 teams (incl. Toronto) that had the possibility of CCL all have clear midweek schedules for the weeks that have CCL matchdays. I'm not saying it's all that easy to schedule these midweek games that are forced by the clearing of weekends for Superliga purposes. To schedule this CHV@HOU game on a midweek date they had to avoid: (a) The weeks of the CCC semifinal and final matchdays that occurred just after the MLS season started. (b) The weeks of all 8 possible CCL dates, including the qualifying round. (c) The US Open Cup dates. (d) The midweek Superliga dates. (e) The week of the All-Star game. That knocks off more than half the weeks of the season, so it's difficult, but I still believe that there was at least 1 (one) midweek date without a WCQ where the game could have been squeezed in.
obviously the dollar wins. I just hope that when MLS is all grown up that those competitive concerns are actually more in line with the financial concerns (which will always rule the day). and I do (hopefully) see those concerns/interests (slowly) aligning (somewhat). the financial concerns will be the basis for how the league is actually run, and (for the time being) any divergent competitive concerns will be the focus of fan complaints (i.e. those in thread starting post).
exactly, and you (and/or I) should be available to help MLS with its scheduling. did MLS know (when it set the 2008 league schedule) that the 8/20 "friendly" Fifa date was actually going to be used for official competition by Concacaf?
I agree. But not everybody is willing to wait that long. Just because I am or you are doesn't matter to them. If someone brings up the competitive disadvantage bit, that's one thing. Though, on any given FIFA matchday, the impact on MLS is usually not huge for various reasons (though as we attract more foreign national-teamers, I imagine it will be larger). I can see where a coach would not want to be at a competitive disadvantage when he has players away on national team duty because (a) I don't think a lot of coaches around the world have to deal with it if their league takes those matchdays off and ( b) actual results are hard enough to come by in a league with as much parity as MLS and teams have shown they've got quicker trigger fingers now than they used to.
so it's just lazy/bad/disinterested scheduling from MLS (in terms of placing these two games on 8/20).
agreed. and this is where I also think MLS is somewhat shooting itself in the foot. as I wrote earlier: now, players leave (or don't join) MLS for all sorts of reasons -- cash being chief among those reasons, but MLS helps to retain that "minor" classification (separate from the salaries being paid) by being a league that conflicts with Fifa dates, and not a club destination for players (US or foreign) who want both the most successful international career and a full and successful club career at the same time. i can't imagine Ching enjoys being away from his club on Wednesday. and yes, this is an isolated incident, but the continually add up on the numerous conflicts over the season(s).
Could I see the list of internationals of other countries who have played in MLS? I know DC United always has in its media guide a list of players who have been capped by their national teams (whichever nation they represent) while a United player. I'm going to guess that there are certain countries whose internationals MLS is unlikely to get anyway. By golly, I think we somehow managed to get one guy from England's team, and I think he'd been dropped by England by the time we got him. That's just one example, of course. I would think the bulk of internationals MLS is going to go after to to be able to afford or to entice here are going to be from CONCACAF and CONMEBOL anyway, aren't they? I think Lubos Reiter might have been the first (and to this point, one of the very few) active members of a UEFA national team to come to MLS. Am I remembering that correctly, or is it the mad cow again? I know Dipsy Selolwane was a Botswana nat during his time here. But, let me tell you - we ain't missing Dipsy Selolwane.
But what about Junior Agogo and Stern John, did we miss them? a historical archive of active NT players (from each Fifa region) in MLS would be an interesting list. would Miklos Molnar be on it? answer, yes, according to wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miklos_Molnar ------ When visiting American international midfielder Chris Henderson in Colorado, a former teammate of his, Molnar had been fascinated by the atmosphere in the American Major League Soccer (MLS) championship. In January 2000, he moved to MLS to play for Kansas City Wizards. While at the Wizards, he was included in the Danish squad for the 2000 European Championship in June 2000. He played a single match at the tournament, before ending his national team career. He retired from football in October 2000, after scoring the game-winning goal in the 2000 MLS Cup, as the Wizards beat Chicago Fire 1-0. -------- of course, Concacaf and Conmebol (and now to some extend Africa as well) seem to be the most involved NT regions for MLS players. I linked earlier to the current 2008 season conflicts thread: http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=698542 and it is mostly filled with US, Concacaf, and some Conmebol and African NT players.
And you forgot the biggest piece of all: Gillette and Robertson have to be available. There are two arguments - one is the game being at the same time and the other being that the players will miss a game. The first they MIGHT have been able to do something about (although the fact that it is scheduled on a Wednesday as opposed to a Thursday suggests possibly not) but the second is far harder. With players needing to be released early it makes playing on the weekend before or after difficult unless the player is not going to start in which case Bradley might release them. Sorry, I just don't care. Even when DC was being depleted for WCQs life goes on. I never cared who was wearing the jersey, I was going out to cheer the 11 players they did put on the field.
