If done right, this could work very well. Get rid of anyone that has hosted recently or can host on their own and use it as an opportunity to play games in countries that wouldn't otherwise be realistic hosts. Groups based in Wales/Ireland/Scotland, Norway/Sweden/Denmark, Hungary/Czech Republic/Slovakia, Romania/Bulgaria/Greece etc. Of course the reality will be completely different, as this is just an excercise for the UEFA bigwigs to spend a month jetting between London/Paris/Rome/Barcelona and the like.
They want to organize this in 13 countries? Baku, Yerevan, Tbilisi, Astana, Istanbul - other eight cities are?
True. As long as this is a one-time thing it might be good. It's not clear if it is though. But yeah, presumably they'll allocate each group to a country. And then each half of the knockout stage bracket to a country. Or something like that. So it's not like teams and their traveling fans will be flying across Europe between each match. Hopefully.
Croatia Football Federation will try to get this host. President Davor Suker said something about this. So far UEFA doesn't know about the possible candidates. It would be so great to see EURO in Croatia, after EURO 1976. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_1976 Because of this EURO 1976 and 1980, third place match doesn't exist anymore. Small number of fans.
Unfortunately it wouldn't be the same. It's convenient if you live in Croatia and want to see a match. But the whole atmosphere/feel that a host Euro or WC nation had during these major tournaments won't exist if it is spread-out over too many countries. It'll be like if a CL match was played in your city. Ok, nice game to attend but when its over that's it. No after-parties, no fan-miles, no comradery, etc.
hmm interesting decision, but I'm wondering how they are going to manage this... will there be qualifiers? One thing they could try and do is host it like the champions league, have home and away games in both the group and knockout rounds, I would love to see that but that would mean something like 13 rounds of games, don't know what clubs would say about that... or are they going to have groups of 4 teams, with each team getting to host one game, and then playing away for another and then at a nuetral venue at another? Interesting to see how this will play out... last Euros was great to watch but I'm afraid that UEFA are ruining this tournament with too many teams and now too many host nations... what's next WC 2030 spread out all across the world, or how about universe to celebrate 100 years?
It would be different. I agree. For example fans come and stay in VIP zones, usually it's some music manifestation. This could happened on EURO 2020. Cities would invest even more so that they can hold and amuse visiting fans. EURO competitions are convinient for anyone. Every city is close, 1,2 h of flight. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2020_bids " Euro 2020 may be spread over "12 or 13 cities" across the continent. UEFA already use a similar system for the UEFA Under 17 Championship's 'Elite Round' where each of the seven groups is hosted by a different country." They organized something similar before. If this was complete fail, they wouldn't try to take the same idea with EURO 2020. At the end they will use cities of bigger countries, who have a lot of residents, 40, 50 millions. They won't organize anything in countries with 4, 5 millions of people.
I guess one way to look at it is that if these "12 or 13 cities" are major airline hubs/big cities if may actually be easier for fans to travel between host cities than, say, going from Kyiv to Donetsk (12 hours?).
With the economic problems in Europe at the moment i can see why UEFA does this. A Europe wide tournament don't have to be bad and the stadiums are allready built. Six groups in geographically close cities with something like this: group1: London and Dublin, Glasgow or Cardiff group2: Madrid and Lisbon or Barcelona group3:Milan and Marseille or Munich group4: Paris and Amesterdam group5:Berlin and Stockholm or Copenhagen group6: Athens and Istanbul Cities with easy access by air and rail and lots of hotelrooms. Sounds like a nice european vacation to me. Mostly cities in western Europe since Russia, Poland and Ukraine recently had big tournaments by themselves.
I think that they could use 1-3 cities from the same bigger country (Madrid, Barcelona - Milano, Torino maybe. They will include previous and future hosts also. For example, Portugal could get again one city, they will have 16 years since the last EURO 2004, Belgium and Netherlands would have 20 years since their event in 2020. They could say: Many years passed from our events. Austria and Switzerland couldn't say this - 12 years since their event, Switzerland is having Southamerican friendly matches very often, they have plenty of good matches. They should include Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Croatia, Czech Republic, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, maybe Hungary and Finland, they don't have those events so often. It's not hard to get in Sweden or Norway, Oresund Bridge. Because of this European crisis nobody wants to build new stadiums, that's why UEFA wants to spread these events. At the end they will take the biggest cities I think, bigger market, TV rights. These countries have also nice hotels, things to see. They all have touristic reputation. http://croatia.hr/en-GB/Homepage
What nationalistic bulllshit! "Persecution of Croatian Catholics through history" _WTFFF? Do you remember maybe WW2 and over 700,000 killed Serbs by Ustasha (Croatian) regime??? Just today i was reading one article about letter of Italian general Alessandro Luzano who was writting how Ustashe in WW2 killed 120 children in one school, first raped teacher in front of them, then chopped all their heads, what to say... Wont even talk that Ustashe are the only one that had children concetration camps in WW2. So much of innocent and peacefull Croatians, wont even start on ethnic cleansing in 1995, when 300,000 Serbs were forced to leave their homes in Krajina, and over 2,000 civilians killed in several days. Serbs could get over WW2 genocide and accept Croats as brothers and you talk about us in that way. How can you say that Serbs are nationalist when we are the only one that tried to save that Yugoslavia, we never wanted to break-up, we were just stupid to make one state with Slovenians and Croatians, when we had our own before you were still province in Austria-Hungary and would become part of Italy after WW1 without us. Read this and learn something about Croatian history: Sorry for this, but i'm sick of this blind nationalist morons. And btw, president of Serbian federation was talking how they are planning to build national stadium, since they gonna try to participate in this Euro 2020. Not so real if you ask me, but who knows.
Have you checked the demographics recently? Serbs usually like to forge history, this is pretty obvious. So, you say that 700 000 Serbs died. Check the number of Serbian residents in Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina. You are talking about WWII. Serbs of Croatia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbs_of_Croatia Census 1931: 633 000 Serbs Census 1948: 543 795 Serbs The difference is only around 100 000 people. Serbs of Bosnia and Herzegovina: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina Census 1931: 1,028,139 Census 1948: 1,136,116 Serbian number is rising for more than 110 000 people. How can you say about 700 000 killed Serbs? The Federal Bureau of Statistics in Belgrade composed a figure of 179,173 persons killed in the war in Bosnia and Herzegovina during the Second World War: 129,114 Serbs (72.1%) 29,539 Muslims (16.5%) 7,850 Croats (4.4%) others (7%) Serbian Federal Bureau of Statistics confirmed this for Bosnia and Herzegovina. What is your history? You just tried to create Great Serbia with Chetnik movement. Serbs are the reason why WWI started. Serb Gavrilo Princip killed Austrian Archduke: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavrilo_Princip 1928. Serb Punisa Racic killed Croatian members of Yugoslav Parliament: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puniša_Račić Serbian king created dictatorship against non-Serbs in Yugoslavia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6_January_Dictatorship His first ancestor was an ordinary peasant. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karađorđe Anyone can be Serbian king. Why should non-Serbs respect their kings? Great Serbia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Serbia Chetnik Movement: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chetniks Serbian war crimes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_war_crimes This is the beautiful history? Croats were attacked from Serbia, all different paramilitary groups: White Eagles for example. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Eagles_(paramilitary) Serbia made ethnic cleansing in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, they wanted to create ethnic clean Serbian nation. It's true, Serbs wanted to remove Catholic Croats, majority of Croats are Catholics, close to 90 percents. In World War II Serbia supported dictators and they had concentration camps: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbia_under_German_occupation The following were the concentration camps established in the occupied territory: Sajmište concentration camp (Belgrade) Banjica concentration camp (near Belgrade) Crveni krst concentration camp (Niš) Topovske Šupe (Belgrade) Dulag 183 (Šabac) World knows about Serbia and their crimes. You attacked Croatian fans on Handball Euro 2012 with axes, you attacked fans of Croatia in their train. Serbia has plenty things to correct. You can continue to forge history and decline Croats, Croatian language, that's what you do so that you can justify your aggression and ethnic cleansing. No need for this risky business and organizing football manifestations with you. Even the father of Serbian nation says that Serbs like to forge history: Serbs always trust in some kind of conspiracy theories, they think that they are some sacred nation, Vatican wants to destroy Orthodox Serbs. Serbs think that Croats were also Orthodox Christians, but the truth is that Serbs accepted also Roman rite in medieval times. It's better that you give up from 700 000 killed Serbs, this is a ordinary forgery, that no one accepts. It's enough to see demographics and census lists above. You are just angry because Serbia is getting smaller, smaller and smaller, nobody wants to live with you in the same state: Croats, Hungarians, Germans, Czechs, Slovaks, Bosnian Muslims, Albanians, Italians, Montenegrins, Macedonians, Austrians, Slovenes. Why is that so? You are too good? You have your own history and the history of other nations. The problem is that you won'd accept Western history, you all think that they have conspiracy for you. It's enough to see your daily websites, your nationalistic forums, you are trying to take over Croatian prominent people and represent them as Serbs. Your history is poor, Ottoman Empire destroyed you, first you were their allies, after that they destroyed you for 500 years. Croats defended Europe from Ottoman invasion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antemurale_Christianitatis You can put here plenty of letters, links, everyone knows that Serbs forge history and create their own aspect. Practically every Serbian region wants independence: Kosovo, soon we will have Sandzak and AP Vojvodina, nobody wants to live with dictators who made ethnic cleansing against non-Serbian people. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...n-war-criminals-Radovan-Karadzic-profile.html Today's Serbs are mostly Vlachs, Roman group of people who were converted into Serbian nation, because of their Orthodox Religion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbianisation Serbs are constant threat for peace in Balkan Peninsula. Why Serbs cross the borders and destroy other nations? They destroyed East and South Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo. Why? You can put much more forged documents about Croatian history, but Croatia is just one dream for Serbs, Croatia is independent, accept this. Great Serbia project is demolished. We can see this in Hague Tribunal. Serb Zdravko Tolimir is sentenced for life before few days and Croatian generals are free. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zdravko_Tolimir I don't think that they would sentence him just because he picked flowers in Bosnia. Enjoy in your day full of conspiracies and invented history. Worlds history is allready written.If you lie about 700 000 killed Serbs, imagine than what else can you create?
I have discovered several other forged informations in his post: If you observe this link, you will see UN number of Serbs who left Croatia. They left because they never accepted Croatia as their own nation, only Great Serbia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Storm According to UN: 150 000 - 200 000. and Red Star mentioned 300 000. At the end of this decade he will write somewhere the number of 500 000. Every year their number of victims is rising up. Those 150 000 - 200 000 organized Log Revolution in Croatia, that destroyed completely Croatian tourism in this and further years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Log_Revolution It's obvious that they were paramilitary groups who wanted paramilitary state that never existed before. This is funny for any reader. He mentioned more than 2000 killed civilians. Here is other information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Storm 324-677 civilians. It was war. I will bring now Croatian civilian victims. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian_War_of_Independence 6 605 Croatian civilians died, 1 218 missing, 247 000 Croats displaced when the war started. Croats defended their territorry against genocide paramilitary groups. Your people escaped because they thought that they will have better life in Serbia and Northern Bosnia. You wanted to create Serbian pure ethnic nation. And you failed, because Croats are always ready to defend their homeland. You can hear this on every Croatia NT match. This salute goes back in 19th century and ban Josip Jelacic. During the whole Croatian Independence War Serbs lost around 2 000 civilians and you are saying here about several days. So much about your knowledge in history, you are lucky that I am here and that I can find western history links, not your own. Serbs destroyed Austro Hungarian Monarchy after they killed Austrian Archduke Franz Ferdinand. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archduke_Franz_Ferdinand_of_Austria Serbs are the one of reasons why WWI started: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I#Background Why would you forget those 700 000 Serbian victims? You know that you said complete forgery here and that this is your poor excuse, you are presenting Serbs as victims. Whole world considers Serbs as aggressors, only Serbs consider themselves as victims. Nobody wants to live in the same state with you. Try to figure this out once and try to figure the reasons why is that so? People would like you if you were good and normal people. EU is trying to create humanity in your country, but you don't have democratic values. We can meet our dear readers with Scorpions - another paramilitary Serbian group. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorpions_(Serbia) There is a list of Serbian paramilitary groups which operated abroad, not in Serbia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_paramilitary Which group do you like? I think that you adore Serbian Orthodox priest Momcilo Djujic. Let's see... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momčilo_Đujić Your entrance here was useless, because you started with lies, you always talk about "evil Croats who killed innocent children, women and old people". But this is not true, as you can see in these numbers, you are always in conflicts with numbers, chronology, western history and facts. You would pressure Croats for those "700 000" victims and they would pay huge financial damage to their families, but this is a forgery. Those numbers went even around 1.4 millions of Serbian victims. I don't mind if you say these numbers, because we all know the reality, you are just amusing western historians. You are not respecting your victims at all. They would like the truth, normal numbers, not your personal "facts". Even your prominent politicians said that Serbia lost every battle in the last two decades, you need to deal with your dark past and try to correct your acts of violence. Serbian society must create new values, not those brainwashing religious Orthodox things how Serbs are God's people, about false Serbian power, good nature, because you don't have good nature. UEFA punished Serbia before 1,2 days because of racial and derogatory words and sounds against U21 England NT. Your scientists are trying to take over Croatian prominent persons, for example Ruder Boskovic, Antun Fabris, Medo Pucic, Ivan Gundulic, Luko Zore, Ivo Andric, Josip Pancic and many others, but they belong in Croatian literature, art, science, etc. Serbs are stealing them because they need to fill up their empty spaces in the history of art, poetry. These persons are all Croats, their biographies say this, you can forge forever, but you can't change their national identity. Serbia is taking over those people who died and who don't have any descendants today. Since September 2012, visitors of Paris can meet Croatian art, culture, history. It will last until December I think, three months of constant presentations, Croats don't steal anything from Serbia. One other issue is this. Serbs are saying: Croats don't exist, they are all Catholic Serbs. OK; but how can you write about Croatian war crimes against Serbs, this is one nation than? Croats are sometimes Catholic Serbs and sometimes are evil nationalistic Croats. Can you decide finally who are Croats, so that we all understand much better? Vojislav Seselj (he is now at Hague Tribunal) said that Croats don't exist, they existed before 500 years, they are gone, extincted. In his other articles he is saying about evil nationalistic Croats who have all resources and help of Vatican, Germany, Austria, etc (all western countries) so that they can destroy Orthodox Serbs. Isn't this amusing to you? Croats sometimes don't exist, but sometimes come as the spirits of the past. I consider that you are a huge fan of Vojislav Seselj: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vojislav_Šešelj Ratko Mladic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratko_Mladić Radovan Karadzic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radovan_Karadžić Milan Babic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milan_Babić Milan Martic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milan_Martić Veselin Sljivancanin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veselin_Šljivančanin Radoslav Brdjanin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radoslav_Brdjanin Ranko Cesic: no link (sentenced on 30 years because of his crimes) Stanislav Galic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Galić Goran Jelisic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goran_Jelisić Dragan Kolundzija, Damir Dosen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keraterm_camp Milojica Kos: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omarska_camp Radomir Kovac: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radomir_Kovač Momcilo Krajisnik: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momčilo_Krajišnik Milorad Krnojelac: 15 years. Radislav Krstic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radislav_Krstić Dragoljub Kunarac: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragoljub_Kunarac Miroslav Kvocka: 7 years http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omarska_camp Mile Mrksic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mile_Mrkšić Dragan Nikolic: 23 years. Biljana Plavsic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biljana_Plavšić Dragoljub Pricac: 5 years Mlado Radic: 20 years Dusko Sikirica: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duško_Sikirica Blagoje Simic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blagoje_Simić Milan Simic: 5 years Milomir Stakic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milomir_Stakić Pavle Strugar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavle_Strugar Dusko Tadic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duško_Tadić Miroslav Tadic: 8 years http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosanski_Šamac Stevan Todorovic: 10 years http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosanski_Šamac Mitar Vasiljevic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitar_Vasiljević Zoran Vukovic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoran_Vuković Simo Zaric: 6 years http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosanski_Šamac Zoran Zigic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoran_Žigić They were all fighters for human rights? Their sentences are another western and Vatican conspiracy? These are your people: Chetniks http://www.google.hr/search?q=Cetni...McHk4QS88IAY&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAA&biw=1600&bih=799 Some photos show how they slaughtered civilians. They like knives a lot. Serbs are the reasons for conflicts in Balkan Peninsula, Croats even saved you once in 10th century. 927 year: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian–Bulgarian_battle_of_927 Bulgarian king expelled you. I wonder why. Too good? I hope that you have good explanations for Serbian war crime past. Why did Serb Punisa Racic killed Croatian members of Yugoslav parliament, if we were all equal, like you said, brothers? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puniša_Račić He attacked only Croats. Interesting. This was in 1928., much before those evil Croats came in WWII, like you said. Croats needed to form protection and independent Croatia, so that they protect their own people. Croatian politicians suffered, imagine what happened to ordinary people. Croats and Serbs weren't brothers at all, pure forgery. Yugoslavia was a Great Serbia for real, where Serbs had much better positions. Slovenia and Croatia were the richest countries in Yugoslavia and they helped to Serbs. Even though Croats and Slovenes were in the second, third plan, they created all benefits in Yugoslavia, development, industry, tourism, others didn't had nothing. Today it shows, you all left behind. Especially in moral aspect. During Austro Hungarian Monarchy Croatia had a status: Kingdom of Croatia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Croatia_(medieval) So you said another forgery by saying that Croatia was some kind region, province in Austro Hungary. Croats had their own anthem there. http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gott_erhalte_Franz_den_Kaiser "Hrvatske krune nam sjaj" - this means "Our Croatian crown shine". We fought with Austria against Ottoman Empire and their allies (Serbs). You can't say that Croats were one ordinary province in the Monarchy. Also few other Croatian regions had status: Kingdom. Kingdom of Dalmatia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Dalmatia Kingdom of Slavonia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Slavonia In those times Serbs were under Ottoman Empire, who after escaped in Croatia, Croats again helped to Vlachs who were escaping infront of Ottomans. After that thos Vlachs became Serbs. Vlachs are Romanians, not Serbs. Croatia created Statuta Vallachorum for them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statuta_Valachorum In 17th century Serbs never existed in Austro Hungary, only Vlachs, who became Serbs after that. This ia a fact, you can't decline this. Croats protected you twice: 10th century and 17th century. On the other hand you attacked Croatian politicians in 1928., your king implemented dictatorship, Serbs wanted Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Macedonia, Montenegro, Kosovo in their own owenership, so that they rule with their peasant rulers. Equal status among nations never existed, Albanians couldn't speak Albanian. Croatian language is connected with Serbian language, which is also Croatia, because Croatian language is older, it goes back in 9th century, your linguist Vuk Karadzic wrote his first dictionary in 19th century, he took everything from Croatian lingusits Bartol Kasic, Faust Vrancic, etc. Vuk Karadzic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vuk_Stefanović_Karadžić He didn't had any proper linguist education, one person from his village thought him how to read and how to write. Faust Vrancic created the first dictionary in 1595 year. It was Croatian-Italian dictionary. Croatian dictionaries: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Croatian_dictionaries First Serbian dictionary came in 19th century, our languages are similar, so everything is clear who took the language. You took Bulgarian Cyrillic script, you have their dialect also, Western Bulgarians use Ekhavian accent, same as you. Can you put the list of Serbian dictionaries before 15th century? No, you can't of course. Cyrillic letter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrillic_script Serbia existed as Belgrade Pashaluk under Ottoman Empire. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanjak_of_Smederevo You said that we never had our state, our history is not good. Why Serbs want our prominent people than? Our country, our coast, 1200 islands, national parks, architecture? If we are so bad? Croats don't want anything from Serbia, nothing. Because they don't need anything from Serbia. But Serbs try to take Republic of Dubrovnik also, they say that they are all Serbs, but you attacked Dubrovnik in recent war. Why would you attack your own city and your own people? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Dubrovnik Croatia has much older universities and national archives than Serbia. University of Zagreb was founded in 1669: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Zagreb University of Belgrade Pashaluk was founded in 1808: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Belgrade Croatian Archive, 17th century: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian_State_Archives Yugoslav/Serbian Archive: 1950 year. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archives_of_Yugoslavia Really long Serbian history. You are living in one big illusion about Serbian great heritage and legacy. Majority of art works in Serbia were donated by Croat Ante Topic Mimara: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ante_Topić_Mimara You even invented one story that Zagreb had the name Serbinum in his ancient history. How lovely. Zagreb as Serbinum and you used Latin language back than. On this nationalistic forum, you created a lot of forged theories: http://forum.srpskinacionalisti.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25874&start=540 There are things in English, so people here can understand your sad dreams. You think that you had your own things in Ancient Egypt, Greece, so that you can create the false theory about the ancient people. http://forum.srpskinacionalisti.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25874 Nice try, it's funny to read this between two coffee's. Croats and Serbs were never brothers, you never behaved as brothers, only as slaughters, killers, destroyers. In recent war Serbs sang: "Slobodan Milosevic, prepare the salad, we will have the meat, we will have the meat, because we will slaughter Croats". You sang this in Croatian city of Vukovar. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vukovar_massacre You took Croats from hospital and killed them. There are thousands proofs about your dark past, you don't need to forge things about Croato-Serbian brotherhood. This never existed, you hated Croats, that's why you wanted to destroy them and take their territory. You like only yourself and nobody else. You don't like EU and all other western countries. Your expedition here is useless, internet is full of evidences against Serbia. Persecution of Croats in Serbia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Croats_in_Serbia_during_the_war_in_Croatia Croats of Serbia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croats_of_Serbia 1948: 169,864 (2.60%) 1953: 173,246 (2.48%) 1961: 196,409 (2.57%) 1971: 184,913 (2.19%) 1981: 149,368 (1.60%) 1991: 105,406 (1.08%) or (excluding the territory of Kosovo) 97,344 (1.24%) 2002: (excluding the territory of Kosovo) 70,602 (0.94%) Number of Croats is going down in Serbia: expelled, killed, converted into Serbian nation, census say this very clear. After WWII, situation for non-Serbs in Yugoslavia was terrible. Croats of Vojvodina: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croats_of_Vojvodina Serbs always talk about their victims: children, women, old people, nothing new, but the census shows everything. Yugoslavia made census in 1931 and 1948, before and after crucial WWII. Where were all Serbian strong men, soldiers, where were they, if Croats only killed children and women? I know the answer also. They all deserted. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lijevče_Field Serbian heroism doesn't exist. Feel free to invent some other "facts", so far the number of Serbian victims in WWII is between 40 000 and 1.4 millions, can you resolve this? In recent war, the number of Serbian victims who fled is between 90 000 and you said 300 000. UN has lower numbers than you. Enjoy in your reality and inventing stories, the only consolation for the sacred people. Here, you can take Croatian art, culture and literature also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian_art http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Croatia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian_literature You allready took our language from the 9th century: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian_language First codification of Serbian language, 13th century, during Saint Sava: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_language What do you have? Nothing that Croats ever wanted. I think that you won't write here anymore, because you don't know how to destroy my arguments. Take care and meet your dark past one day. After that you will figure it out, why no one wants to live with Serbs. Sorry because of this longer offtopic, but I needed to emphasize some things from our history. I explained before why we can't organize anything together, yesterday they got UEFA punishment because of racism, Croatia has two black players in national team, they have foreigners, but they don't accept black people. This teacher that you wrote about Stana Aranutovic isn't a Serbian surname. Arnaut people are Albanians: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnauts I don't know why do you have strange links. It's interesting to observe that Serbs always have personal letters from other people, which usually prove evil nature of Croats and all other non-Serbs. Serbs always read and hear everything before others (number of Serbian victims, letters, confidential reports, German soldiers reactions, Italian soldiers reactions, you really know everything). It's nice to see that Serbs adore Croats and that they want everything that Croats have, territory, national history and treasure included of course. You also say that Croats don't have anything. Desire for nothing? How strange.
Several examples how Serbia takes over Croatian results in sport. Serbia Davis Cup: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbia_Davis_Cup_team Most total wins has Croats Franjo Puncec and Josip Palada. One of the best players in doubles was Croat Nikola Pilic. Even though they are confirmed Croats, Serbs consider them as their own tennis players. Novak Djokovic is half-Croat (mother) and half-Montenegrin (father). This fact was confirmed by Orthodox priest from Trebinje (East Herzegovina). He said on TV, that people from mixed ethnc groups have warm nature, he mentioned Novak Djokovic. In Fed Cup Serbs also take over tennis players from other nations: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbia_Fed_Cup_team Observe former teams in the bottom: surnames Dvornik, Jausovec, probably Papista, Delmestre, Degen, Goles, Winkler, maybe Ercegovic, Jelena Dokic is half-Croatian. Other surnames don't even sound as Serbian. They played for Yugoslavia, but from other countries, not from Serbia. First Yugoslav Davis Cup tennis match was played in Zagreb, Croatia, not in Belgrade, Serbia. Yugoslavia started to play Davis Cup in 1927. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslavia_Davis_Cup_team This match was played in Zagreb, Croatia, against India. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1927_International_Lawn_Tennis_Challenge Yugoslav Football Federation was founded in Zagreb, Croatia, but Serbs forced and made the transfer of this headquarters in Belgrade. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_Association_of_Yugoslavia "It was formed in 1919 in Zagreb under the Croatian name Jugoslavenski nogometni savez. The FA became the temporary member of FIFA on May 4, 1921 and permanent member on May 20, 1923. The name later changed to Nogometni savez Jugoslavije. After disagreements between the Zagreb and Belgrade subassociations in 1929, the Assembly of Football Association of Yugoslavia was dissolved in 1929, subsequently with the 6 January Dictatorship; the association headquarters moved to Belgrade next year, on March 16, 1930 where the organization modified its name to SerbianFudbalski Savez Jugoslavije." This happened much before WWII, during the 6 January Dictatorship of Serbian king Aleksandar Karadordevic, he was of Montenegrin origins, not Serb. http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandar_I._Karađorđević This proofs that Croats and Serbs were never brothers. Croats never voted in any elections for entrance in Yugoslavia, first elections Croats had in 1991, when 93% of people voted for independency, not for Yugoslavia. Those 93% felt bad in this land of "brotherhood and unity". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian_independence_referendum,_1991 Democratic elections. During the war Croatia offered to Serbia Z 4 Plan, so that the war ends, in this Plan Serbs should get autonomy in Croatia, with their own state SAO Krajina. But they never accepted this Plan, they wanted everything. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z-4_plan Serbs refused this plan, it's all written here. They thought that they could conquer whole Croatia. But they were wrong. Croatia achieved decesive victories in every battle against Serbia. Also Serbia should pay once complete damage for destructed cities, homes, cultural heritage, Croats never visited Serbian cities and those cities were never destroyed, it was invasion on Croatian territory. You can read about massacres in Croatia, made by Serbs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Massacres_in_Croatia Massacres in Serbia were never made by Croats: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Serbia Massacres in Kosovo, made by Serbs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_the_Kosovo_War That's why nobody likes to live with Serbs. Our friend Red Star vanished now, because he can't decline objective historic facts and Serbian dark past. Massacres in Bosnia and Herzegovina, mostly committed by Serbs, all other massacres were self-defensive action. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina Serbs don't like people who are not Orthodox Christians. That's a fact. Croatia is still fighting against landmines, here is the map of mines, Serbs created those minefields. http://www.croatia.org/crown/articles/4542/1/H-Karta-Mina-u-Hrvatskoj.html Those mine borders match completely with the borders of Great Serbia and paramilitary state called SAO Krajina. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Serbia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAO_Krajina Why would Serbs put mines in the state of their brothers Croats? Serbia took over every Yugoslav sport result, even though many Croats, Slovenes and others participated in those teams: football, basketball, handball, tennis, waterpolo, etc. You can see Yugoslav Olympic medals carriers, many of them are not Serbs, but Serbia is counting today around 110 medals at Summer Olympics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslavia_at_the_Olympics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Yugoslav_Olympic_medalists http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbia_at_the_Olympics Serbian Olympic Committee contienues the tradition of Yugoslav Olympic Committee. Today they have 8 medals, but they include those 99 Yugoslav medals. Serbia never had anything at Winter Olympics. They were all Slovenes, because Slovenes have tradition in ski sports. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslavia_at_the_Olympics Jure Franko, Mateja Svet, Matjaz Debelak, Miran Tepes, Primoz Ulaga, Matjaz Zupan, Matjaz Debeljak. Slovene surnames, except surname Franko, he has probably Italian roots (Franco). Croats boycotted World Cup in football 1930., because of hostile transfer of headquarters from Zagreb in Belgrade. "The national team consisted of Serbian players only as it was boycotted by Croatian players at this World Cup due to the relocation of football association's headquarters from Zagreb to Belgrade." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslavia_national_football_team Other World Cup's have a lot of Croats. Best goal scorer of Yugoslav team was Croat Stjepan Bobek. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslavia_national_football_team Majority of Bosnia and Herzegovina players were Croats (Josip Bukal, Davor Jozic, Josip Katalinski, Ivica Osim, Blaz Sliskovic, Franjo Vladic, Zoran and Zlatko Vujovic (they are Montenegrins by origins, but they consider themselves as Croats). Several of Serbian football players are not Serbs in fact: Ivan Curkovic, Dragan Holcer, Silvester Takac, Fahrudin Jusufi. Same thing was in waterpolo, during Yugoslavia almost every waterpolo player was from Croatia, because waterpolo is Croatian tradition. Croatian waterpolo club HAVK Mladost is considered as best waterpolo club in the history of 20th century. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAVK_Mladost It's enough to click on those years, you will see the players and places where were they born. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslavia_men's_national_water_polo_team Here you can see also Croats: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatia_men's_national_water_polo_team Croatia handball team during Yugoslavia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatia_men's_national_handball_team Gold medal 1972 was practically Croatia handball team. Similar thing is in all other sports, but Serbia took over Yugoslav results. Majority of prominent Serbs were born outside of today's Serbia. Scientist Nikola Tesla has Croatian roots, he wrote this in his diary. This diary is kept in secret somewhere in Serbia. http://www.hrvatskipravoslavci.com/...e-bio-srpskog-roda&catid=2:povijest&Itemid=10 The title says: Nikola Tesla is not of Serbian ancestry. He was born in Croatia.
Before few weeks Serbia played one friendly match against Chile in St. Gallen, Switzerland, (14.11.). I watched that game on TV. Serbian fans sang: "Ubij, zakolji, da Siptar ne postoji" This means: "Kill, slaughter, so that Albanian doesn't exist" Other song was: "Kosovo je srce Srbije" This means: "Kosovo is the heart of Serbia" Kosovo is an independent state now. Their fans are declining another independent nation. Also they sang one song against Chilean players: "Malo vas je, malo vas je pickice" "You are a little, little p****es". Serbian usual slogans are: "Srbija je od Tokija do Milvokija" This means: "Serbia is from Tokyo to Milwaukee" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srbija_do_Tokija "Gdje jedan Srbini zivi, to je Srbija" This means: "Where one Serb lives, this is Serbia" "Svi Srbi u jednoj drzavi" This means: "All Serbs in one state". These slogans look really nationalistic. Our dear Serbian friend can try to decline this, also he can try to decline about the songs during the match against Chile. Serbian players like to use provocations, probably because of this Chilean player Arturo Vidal got his red card. You can see here the match between Croatia and Yugoslavia (Serbia), their player took Croatian player Robert Jarni for testicles. They had referee assistance here, one Croatian goal was not accepted, ball crossed the line. In Belgrade they turned off the electricty, Nikola Tesla wouldn't be proud on this. Croatia was much better in Belgrade, the match ended 0-0. This was the match in Serbia. Croats came first in Belgrade, look how they yell "boos" on our national anthem. Reporters turned off fan boos here. This is obvious. Reporter said about the TV manipulation. During Serbian anthem fans were also turned off, after that we could hear the fans. This is Serbian intention, to manipulate and to forge true events. Croats say "boos" on Serbian anthem, this is well known. They don't manipulate. At the start of this match, I hear: "Ubij, ubij, Ustase" - "Kill, kill Ustase" Ustati means "to rise up", nothing else. Croats rised up against the idea of Greater Serbia. I wrote here about the match against Chile. https://www.bigsoccer.com/community/...de-noviembre-en-st-gallen-amistoso-r.1976338/ There are plenty of links about Serbian radical ideas, past and the same ideas for the future. I could write for days about Serbia and Serbs, but I don't have so much time to describe everything, I wrote here only about several issues. http://econc10.bu.edu/economic_systems/NatIdentity/EE/Yugoslavia/serbia_violent.htm http://www.ibtimes.com/serbian-soccer-fans-xenophobia-racism-violence-hopelessness-847961 http://www.ibtimes.com/serbian-soccer-fans-xenophobia-racism-violence-hopelessness-847961 http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19971417 http://www.historyorb.com/europe/yugoslavia.php http://www.washingtontimes.com/multimedia/collection/violent-serbian-fans-stop-match-in-italy/ English black players were the target here. Last video shows racist sounds. Fans of Red Star supported Chetnik leader Draza Mihailovic in Zagreb, Croatia. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCorjy-X5jQ Conflicts on sport courts are often in Serbia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf_MJNKXtms http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVMxpUYPedM Serbs attacked Croats in Mostar, fans of Zrinjski Mostar http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=648BiXn0mzU Serbia - Bosnia and Herzegovina http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghS23RmfbDM We can see those shirts with skull and two bones. Bosnian fans supported normally in TuzlaSerbs sang here: "Kill, kill the Turk".These several posts are the main reasons why Croatia, Serbia and Bosnia and Herzegovina can't organize anything together. I hope that Croatia will win in March against Serbia and that Croats will send their "proud" army to think again. Serbian media have all sorts of articles about this match, Croatian media don't write too much about this match. Serbs are always motivated against Croats, because they lost two wars against Croats. Because of this they feel frustrated. Serbs are always try to create their own history: " 'Ko nas bre zavadi? "Who conflicted us (Croats and Serbs?) Nobody conflicted us, Serbs were the creators of wars in Balkan Peninsula. They had paramilitary organizations even before WWII. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Serbian_paramilitary Chetniks were fromed before WWII, Croats only reacted and Rised Up against terror in so called Yugoslavia, land of brotherhood and unity. Croatian politicians were attacked in Yugoslav parliament. Why? If they were all equal "Yugoslavs". If they all had idea of Yugoslavism, how come the knew who is a Serb, Croat, Bosnian Muslim, Slovene. They started the war in Slovenia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten-Day_War Slovenes also won here. Same thing happened in Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Kosovo. Serbs invaded in foreign territory, after that they were defeated. Now they create one funny story how they protected Yugoslavia. This is a false history, Yugoslavia had a role of Great Serbia. One Serb of Croatia tries to create genocide past of Croats: Savo Strbac http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savo_Štrbac He lost on these Hague Tribunal cases. You can't create victims and enlarge their numbers in normal, democratic world. Hague Tribunal is the highest instance of law, founded by UN. Croats respect every decision. Serbs still think that Hague Tribunal is a court just for Serbs. Yes, it is, because they made so many war crimes. It takes a lot of time to resolve those cases. Savo Strbac worked as judge in Croatian city of Zadar during Yugoslavia, he finished law in Zagreb, Croatia. He had a good life in Yugoslavia, Serbs were privileged in Yugoslavia, Serbian capital city, before they had Serbian king, they formed false Serbo-Croatian language, they wanted to take over institutions from Zagreb, Croatia. In fact Zagreb was the center of everything in Yugoslavia, every Croatian institution is older than any Serbian in every sense: cultural, artistic, sports, linguistic, academic, etc. Serbs don't like the fact that they live in less beautiful part of Balkan, East. This part is bad for life, isolated from every modern world's customs, they still have there some kind of tribal rivalry, blood revenge, clans, they use a lot of alcohol (Sljivovica). In Montenegro we can still find cases, where parents convert female children into male children, just because parents don't have male children. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-xUwFeg4ww This female lives like a man, she needs to smoke, to hunt, to drink like a man, so that their parents can be proud and say that they have a son. Female children are not so popular in traditional families, they consider female children as some kind of curse. Pretty strange people. In several years, we can expect new countries that want to live divided from Serbia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vojvodinahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandžak They still consider that Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Macedonia, Montenegro, Kosovo are still Serbian territory and one day they will rise up and conquer their territories. They still dream about the battles in the future, forums and daily websites are full of these comments, about declining non-Serbian nations in their own area. Serbs like to celebrate their lost battles, unique case in the world. Battle at Kosovo, 1389. year: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kosovo Serbs are trying to order Croatia that Croats can't celebrate their battles against Serbs, even though Croats won there. They still consider themselves as number one in Balkan Peninsula. Arrogance, selfish approach, they don't accept that people should all be equal, no matter what nation, or religion. They think that every other nation in their area are Serbs, only they are not aware yet, they justify their wars like this: "We wanted to convince that they are all Serbs, only they have different religions". Convincing people with reapons, knives are good methods for sure. If they are all Serbs, why would they attack them? Croats sometimes exist, sometimes they are extincted. I never had intention to write here about these conflicts, but this Serbian user started with lies and forged history about 700 000 killed Serbs in WWII. This is a absurd information, which is very easy to resolve with census arguments. That's why he is gone now, he thinks that people don't know about Serbian dark past. Well, he was wrong. Croatian fans were attacked at EURO 2012 in handball (Serbia) with stones and axes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y93lldjlXpg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOUj49wKw04 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAPvu8lsB9g http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5t5Z9nFhUwc Fans of Red Star, some radical fascist groups participated in these attacks with construction blocks, stones and axes. They recognize Croatian vehicles because of registration plates. Their politicians say: "Don't come with your registration plates in Serbia". Anthems in Serbia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnDJifVHZyw They won here in terrible conditions, but Croatia won at Summer Olympics in London 2012. Serbia was the host of this EURO. 1.50 minute Croatian anthem. Serbian war criminals: http://www.bosniafacts.info/web/serb_war_criminals.php Bosnian genocide: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_Genocide You can discover alone about their history by typing: Serbian war crimes/criminals. Really nice history, they can be proud. On the other hand, Croats are proud on their history, Croats never made any invasion in other countries, only if they needed to defend Croats. User Red Star used just their usual provocations and forged history. My last post about Croato/Serbian relations, they don't have any relations, they are frozen, fragile, every event is a chance for another conflict, especially in sport. It would be better that those two teams don't even play against each other, because Croatian fans suffer only. Two results 3-0 for each side and this is all right, no victims, no interventions. Serbian media plays also negative role in those conflicts. Serbs are concinced that international history is a conspiracy of Vatican (John Paul II), Germany, Austria, USA, UK, western Christianity. They are all united in protection of Croats. Funny theory. One song was created in Croatia: Stop the war in Croatia. The war was never stopped, Croats needed to organize their military forces from the start. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTlihK3LH2E Croatia exists since the 7th century, they don't need Serbian mentors. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatia Croatian modern anthem is older than Serbian anthem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lijepa_naša_domovino http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bože_pravde They only sing about the God, justice, how ironic. Country with the dark, war criminal past sings about justice and God. Serbs should accept the fact that Croats don't want any family relations with Serbs: brotherhood, sisterhood, father, mother, this never existed, those two nations had different histories, different influences. Croatia had Illyrian, Roman Empire, Austro-Hungarian influences and Croatian influence. Serbs had Bulgarian, Ottoman Empire and Vlach influences. Serbian folklore outfit describes perfectly Ottoman Empire influence: http://www.kudcrnjelovo.com/galerije/nosnja/DSCF0033.jpg
No need for deleting my posts or red cards, because I don't have to say anything more about relations between Croatia and Serbia. I finished. Serbian user turned off-topic with his WWII letter. Nothing to do with EURO 2020. I apologize in advance because of my longer report, smaller historic background. I just wrote why Croatia-Bosnia and Herzegovina-Serbia can't organize anything together, because there was one idea about this. I never wrote anything offensive here, I respect Serbia and Serbs in their own internationally recognized borders. I wanted to clear this situation so that readers understand why we can't organize anything together (fan riots, additional security, possible victims, infrastructure damage). In some sense my posts are not off-topic, they explain our background and reasons why can't we organize EURO 2020. Many people considers Croats and Serbs as the same nation, which is not true. I am active in football prediction contests, I don't write about political issues, several posts per day only about football and several other sports. I could lose my results in prediction contests, football Quiz because of smaller history trip here. I don't even like history too much, it's often boring. I am focused only on the future, but sometimes I must return in the past because some people force me to do this. If you connect temperament, personal nature, attitude and history, you get longer report. I understand that I should avoid difficult subjects, but at that time I felt that I am making the right thing: to defend Croatian interests. If you take persons homeland, heritage, language, culture, identity, national pride what can he have than? In his post, I felt one big threat for Croatian dignity and reputation. Croatia is a small country, but some people are proud on this small country and its history. Politics and football are connected. I am sorry if I went off-topic. Serbian user started first, his post can stay and my posts should be deleted? He wrote his story, I wrote my story, nothing else. I should stay in silence while he creates false history? He tried to destroy Croatian reputation by saying false informations, especially those numbers on international and democratic forum. I don't mind if I see those words on some Serbian forum. But here is international level, rules of arguments are very important here. I just reacted and defended Croatian interests, my democratic right. Nothing else. Lets return all back on EURO 2020 without invented letters from 1941. Have a nice day!
Erm, this thread I started sure has degenerated in plenty of unpleasantness best reserved for someplace else. Now, of course, UEFA has pulled quite a different solution outa its hat. A pan-European EURO in 2020. Old news by now, but it still merits discussion. Obviously enough, UEFA went for this alternative largely because of the unsatisfactory bids in the offing and then tried to legitimate the shift by pointing to the 60th anniversary. In any case, I think there is much to be said for such a low-investment EURO in these troubled times.
EURO 2020 bids: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2020_bids Hosts of this EURO will need two stadiums with 50 000 seats. I don't think that one country could invest in new stadium, because of crisis. UEFA will just take the existing stadiums that have 50 000. There is plenty of time for this decision: September 2013 - Deadline to submit bid documentations to UEFA. Latest news: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/06/euro-2020-across-europe-uefa "...leaving the door open for a potential final at Wembley and group-stage matches in Scotland, Wales and the Republic of Ireland." Comments in the bottom are interesting. Four countries are practically revealed: Republic of Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England. Eight, nine countries missing. I think that they will give places for Turkey, Georgia, Azerbaijan so that they don't become unhappy. Seven possible countries are maybe known. Five, six left.
I felt the initial reason for throwing out the suggestion of hosting throughout the continent had to do with Turkey also going for the 2020 Olympics. If they win that, it would exclude them from hosting EURO 2020, which they possibly would have been favored to win. With that in mind... ... I'll predict that if Istanbul loses out on the Olympics (IOC will announce host in September 2013) UEFA will let them host the EURO semifinals/final.
Didn't Platini turn a lot of potential bidders off by saying he was voting for Turkey? And didn't the move to 24 teams reduce the number of potential hosts? Nice to see that the bureaucrats at Uefa coming up with awkward solutions to the problems they created. Can anyone tell me what was wrong with the Georgie/Azerbaijan bid?