Who Is The Greatest Dribbler Ever

Every time we ask you direct questions and put some hard evidence like videos or stats in favour of Romario you will dodge and go silent and/or want to quit the debate. This is not the first time James. So you can't blame us for it.

When the tough gets going and the heat is on, what do you do? You tweet like a hatched baby bird and then you go like "Ok, lets forget about this Ro-Ro" kind of thing.

but when you get the chance to push your views beyond reason you are keen to debate to the death! And will call people names for not accepting your views without mercy! So now the table is turned upon you.

Where are your coloured articles and long lists now?

James it's simple and easy, all you got to do is admit like a man that you are a R9 fanboy. We will understand.

No pun intended!

 

Beautifully put, it describes very well the texture to Romario's game.

@greatstriker11

 

NO you and pipiolo are Romario fan boys, and I am NOT just R9 fan boy
I am a fan of beautiful football - who ever played beautiful - (like I always defend for Maradona, Didi, Zico ...or Pele or even Zidane, Riquelme .... on top of R9)

 

I do not deny that i am not. But at least I am not pushing to make Romario look better then he was. I will never push Romario to be the best in every single category of debate the way you tend to do so often. That's the difference between us. You in turn, cannot stand critics towards Ronaldo or Pele. We in turn tolerate any critics against Romario or Maradona. Can you spot the difference between us?

Having said that, you cannot deny that when the debate involves Pele and/or Ronaldo you become too defensive and unsporting in your methods. Quite often refusing (dodging) to give direct answers to direct questions. Don't you?

But I do know that you do regard Romario and Maradona highly nevertheless. But you will simply never give them credit when Ronaldo and Pele are the subject of debate. And i know you won't because you simply like Pele and Ronaldo's maze dribbling style more than the game of positioning and touch of Romario. This is the reason why you cannot admit nor reckon the widely held consensus regarding Romario as a great WC hero (94). Because by admitting it, in your head, that will automatically make R9 redundant right? At least that's how you tend seem from the comments you often make. So it's fear of losing ground on R9 debate that makes you prejudice against Romario (or sometimes even Rivaldo).

Admit it, you do reckon Romario's great technique and achievements but you simply won't give him the credit he deserves because that will imply (perceived in your head) that he was better then Ronaldo. So you're building a wall of fear onto yourself unnecessary and reject our valid points by presenting all sorts of lists and interviews to back your views up. While not one of those piece of clues of yours state nor proof R9 as a superior player. You demand proof but you never really offered one yourself.

But you requested to put an end to this R9-R11 debate and I will oblige as a gentleman.

However, know that i do respect your choice nonetheless to support Ronaldo or Pele.

 

@greatest striker and Pipiolo

Last post here regarding R9 vs R11.

There are two different things, between talent and fame (popular)
1- Platini >= Zidane > Zico:
Like many (quickly) put Platini and Zidane above Zico in TOP10 or so legends all time = since the two French players won many top trophies in Europe -
OK I accept that - Zico had a big downfall in his WC and Copa. (understandable)
but I can tell Zico was AT LEAST equal Platini and surely better then Zidane in RAW TALENT

2- Now R9 > R11:
R9 was often ranked above R11, NOT because he won more trophies, (in fact he won less team trophies).
Most important, I followed VERY CLOSE Brazil football and top players in their games.
I can tell THERE IS NO WAY, Romario was possibly better "techniques" then Ronaldo (liek you guys often IMANGINE)

In fact R9 was a bit more "ALL rounded" in techniques and playing style than a "monotonous poaching gifted" Romario.

===================================================
Let's STOP HERE.

You can always DISAGREE to Agree with me LOL

 

All the above is acceptable but the following:

1. when you state R9>R11 in raw talent category. This is biased! Will come to that later.
2. I am glad you finally admited openly that R11>R9 in team trophies. However you dodge again the point i underpinned for over a year now. I AM TALKING ABOUT TOP SCORER TITLES!!!!!!
3. if you really follow Brazil football up close then why do you seem to be utterly ingorant of how Brazilians regard Romario performance in WC94 as a greater feat then R9 & Rivaldo in WC02?? This latter point is a well established consensus among the majority of Brazilians all around the world. I have many Brazilian friends here in london and they all agree on this. But you are the only (including R9 fans of course) to go against the mainstream on WC94 vs WC02. You even ignored Celito and Lucas Gomes etc who are real Brazilians. You are a Canadian/North American and come up as pretentious when you go against what Brazilians opine. Between you (a Canadian) and Celito (a Brazilian) it's clear and obvious who I will listened to right? And you can;t blame me for it.
4. And this is the pitfall you fall in to. To say that Romario was a mere monotous toe poacher is showing how poor your knowledge of Romario is. For your information Romario became a toe poacher with ageing. All the goals and dribbles R9 did Romario also did when he was younger when playing for PSV and Vasco(80's) But you do not know this and that's why you're so biased in a Ro-Ro debate. I can take Romario's 93/94 season at barca and show every single goal he made and count how many toe poach he scored. You will be amazed even though you won't admit it though that most of Romario's goals were not toe poaching but a lot more varied in style then Ronaldo in 96/97.

Did you know that in the end of the season 93/94 when the commentators wanted to select the most beautiful goals of the La Liga that season, they said they have to select the best 10 goals of Romario first and then they will consider goals from other players? No! you did not know this because you do not speak spanish and hence you wouldn;t know what the catalans and merengues were talking about Romario that season. I know this because Spanish is my father's language. I was brought up watching TVE and my Spanish is fluent like a local so I know what Spanish people think of both players. But you have to rely on English speaking commentators to give you a an account that seems to be lost in translation.

Count how many toe poach goals do you see?


How many toe poach have you counted in the video above James? Tja!

And can you deny that those goals in the video above were not spectacular?

It's actually Ronaldo who was monotonous for most of his goals involved power at PK zone line.

If R9 was more varied then Romario, then how is it that we havent seen Ronaldo scored goals in this following order:
1. Chips over goalie?
2. headers?
3. freekicks
4. Cola de Vaca?
5. one two?
6. Bicycle kick?

Have you seen Ronaldo score a bicycle kick ever? No!

So how on Earth is Romario more monotonous is beyond me.

It only shows how pretentious you are about Brazilian football. The truth is you have seen very little of Romario and you have seen very little of brazilian domestic football matches. You go around bigsoccer saying thins like you've been in country in Brazil, but i bet you spend two weeks in Ipanema with your baseball cap and your tan in the beach taking pictures of Carioca girls you never even dared to approach for you do not even speak the language. Isn't this right or am I insulting you again for telling the truth?

Let me put it straight, you claim to know about Romario and brazilian domestic football but you don't. in fact the only thing i have seen you do over a full year is posting stats and interviews. But when it comes to discuss a skill like most do here, you lack fundamental knowledge of what is what. For you didn't even get the definition of dribbling, headers and lately "assists" correct. So how come you became a football coach is beyond as well. Perhaps you coach football to locals in a secluded and small hamlet in the Mid West? perhaps!

@Pipiolo

 

Well, i think R9 and Romario were 2 of the best forwards i ve ever seen.. What a shame we were denied the chance to see them play together at the 1998 world cup ..

 

I love the way you always reckon both for what they are instead of pretending like james to know it all.

You always said you liked R9 more for his style and it did entertain you more. And that is acceptable. But fanboys like James who will call us names (ignorant etc) for not agreeing that R9 was better is why I keep coming back to James every time he be pretentious.

I agree Giles, they were both magnificent players to watch.

Always a pleasure to read your posts Giles.

 

thank you mate.. Im glad you realise i aint no fan boy and im not biased.. I just go by what my eyes have seen over the years and pay little attention to stats or lists.. I have watched and played football since i was 6 years old thats 34 years of experience !! I have collected football videos and dvds since i was 8 ! .. Mainly international matches and brazilian italian spanish and english league games.. So the reason i joined big soccer was to learn and debate the game with like minded people.. I find some peoples opinions of players and teams differ from mine and its interesting to see football through other peoples eyes.. I dont agree with everybody and i dont expect everybody to agree with me but thats the whole point of these forums. It would be boring if everyone agreed.. So i will state my claim.. The most jaw dropping skilful player i ever saw was ronaldinho - The greatest individual and the greatest influence on a team was diego maradona - the best dribbler i ever saw was also maradona.. but i rate R9 in his early prime as being one of if not the most explosive talents i ever saw.. And i just wonder why others see R9 in a different light to me ..?? ( PS: sorry for a long boring post ! )

 

Not boring at all. I too do not like stats to much. I look at them as a supplementary aid rather then making them my main benchmark of measure. Stats can help but also deceive the interpreter. In the end stats can be interpreted in more then one way. In statistics and science we call that "non-uniqueness". That is the same stats can fit more then one model/theory equally. Video and anecdotal account does constrain the interpretation in to a more confident view of what is or what is not. But some people here tend to rely entirely on stats alone and sometimes even amateur dodgy stats sources without discrimination as long as it support their views.

Having said that I too have been watching footballing for over 30 years now. I have seen Romario and Ronaldo playing in Phillips and Ajax Stadium in Holland in person. They are among my favourites but I think Romario had better technique and was more complete. But this is based on my personal views and how we see both players in the Netherlands. I also think Maradona is simply the most technical and talented player of them all. he showed leadership and made mediocre teams into champions. Pele, I have not seen extensively due to my age. And Ronaldinho is in my heart forever because he brought joy more then any other modern player I have seen. In terms of dribbling I think Ronaldinho was a lot more interesting to watch then R9. He incorporated basket ball tricks into football. Magic Johnson was his idol. And he emulated his tricks in football. That is very rare for a football player to do. I also, think that football is one of the most subjective and irrational sports on Earth simply because stars and legends are made mainly by the majority of followers. The fans have the power. But it's the media controlled by the business side of football that steers fans to favour one player over the other.

Anyway, welcome and I hope we can exchange knowledge and experience in what seems to be a ever changing sport with an uncertain future. At least that's the way i see it.

Good luck this Summer WC. I wager for Holland (my motherland) and then Spain (my fatherland).

 

good luck for the world cup ?! .. I am totally neutral .. I am english but i don't really like watching england ! They bore me and i can't stand all the hype surrounding rooney who in my opinion is the most overrated player i ve ever seen. A decent player but not world class.. I just like to see the team that plays the best football win... I think spain could possibly do it again because the conditions will suit their style but brazils home support is gonna be like having a 12th man.. I dont know about holland.. I think their best chance to be world champions was 1998 ( obviously 1974 as well) but i thought holland were the best team in 1998..

 

I have been living in England for over 8 years now. Currently in London. I too am annoyed by the hype surrounding Rooney. I mean is this guy the best England has to offer?

Actually their best chance was vs Spain 2010. But the problem with Holland is more to do with psychology then talent. They can assemble a great team of players backed by a great manager succeed passed through all stages to the final and then backfire because of the pressure and realisation that they finally have a shot at winning the WC. Psychology got do it each time. @PuckVanHeel ???

Personally and honestly, I do not think Brazil will win it. Perhaps not even reach the final to be honest. Don;t ask me why but i think the team lacks maturity still. Winning Confed Cup is different then winning WC. And I think that playing a WC at home doesn;t guarantee success either, sometimes your fans can put too much pressure. And since the average Brazilian player is quite young of age and experience they may have psychological disadvantage. I mean, Neymar might be a great striker but I doubt he will show leadership to motivate the rest. My best bet will be that Spain is going to win again. They are battle hardened veterans who still got their game pretty much alive. Either Argentina or Germany are going to the final. Thus, either Spain vs Argentina/Spain vs Germany. But this is my personal view.

 

Even if you have the best and most talented players, as a smaller country, the larger ones will always have a better prepared staff and analysts. Or can build/pay a training camp built from scratch. Always more experience.

It has always been true, but maybe even more so in the modern times (with the modern 'money machines', who play many matches against each other too).

That is, in short, my take. Not to mention that 'the media' and 'PR-machines' has again an obvious role of course.

 

Come on Puck you cannot say that. Small as our country may be it's still among the richest and competent among many bigger opponents. We have reached the final 3 times! The most reason final was last WC10. So we can nail it wasn't it for, what I think the problem is, psychology!

Psychology has got us Dutch backfiring every time we get one meter in front of the finish line.

Analyst? We got plenty! There's so many Dutch consultant analyst out there giving advises to big football nations.

We got coaches/managers who led other nations in WC's and they were quite successful.

So we do have the staff and resources. What we as a Dutch nation lack is the "balls" and will to pull this shit off for once and for all. It took Spain a whole century before they realised this. Why can't we?

Wasn't it for psychology we would have been WC champions 3 times already.

 

But who is giving 'us' advises? No one.

See here an important difference.

 

Who's giving Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Italy advice?

 

You live in england now ? Sorry to hear that !!! Lol... Glad you agree about rooney. He's slow he never looks fit and he's lost all the abilty that he had when he first came on the scene.. The most technically gifted england player for me is Adam Lallana.. I dont particularly like this new brazil team.. I think Neymar is a very talented player but he dives and cheats too much.. He aint in the class of romario R9 etc but people talk about him like he is.. I do think home support will lift brazil.. Most host countries do well in world cups.. I thought the 1998 dutch team was the best at that world cup. They should have beat brazil in the semis .. Thats what i meant about 1998

 

Dont forget Messi. You always defend Messi.

 

yes like ... the thread against CR7

 

These are legends who made greatest impact on world football :

 

and last decade ...

 

@JamesBH11

From the posters above you sure are the biggest fanboy on bigsoccer.com

There's no denying!

 

what a waste of space of a post

 

yes you maybe right ...It's so obvious of that picture and I should just post one pic of Pele as one king!
the others and Messi will never get that crown ... = big waste eh?
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Now let's look at the "media" about Barca and Messi ! Only 3 consecutive bad games ...

 

What are you talking about? Messi already has a crown. Look at this super scientific study they did on him: