The worst part for Torres is will Chelsea have patience for him? Andy with a much lower wage will probably more be looked as a really expensive squad player but you can't say the same for Torres with his wages. It's only recently Andy have grown a little on me... not because of his goals but for his efforts. Still looks no where near a 35 million player though. Had he been bought for 15 million I wouldn't have complained.
I feel sorry for both players as Liverpool and Chelsea have such mediocre midfields. The quality of delivery into them is woeful.
er Chelsea and Liverpool are 3rd and 4th in the shots per game league. Obviously the respective midfields are doing something right and while both teams have their fair share of scapegoats in the middle its clear its the attack that is lacking. In Chelsea's case they've scored 44 league goals of which Torres has 3, cant really shoulder the blame on the midfield.
Liverpool have hit the woodwork about 20 times and missed 5 penalties this season! I think the problem is finishing!
This! Chelsea may have the goals but there midfield has GLARING holes. For starters, lampard sees to no longer be a 90 minute player who can directly influence matches like he used to. Essien neither. Mikel has been exciled, meireiles is too weak to control a midfield, romeu is too young and inexperienced to lead the Chelsea midfield. Lucas was the gem of the liverpool midfield. A combative energetic "leads the way" type of player with decent ability and technique allowing Adam & Gerrard a bit more freedom to attack. Liverpool with Lucas are a different beast than without him. Without him, there overall attacking nous has been a shadow of what it could be (not to mention, imagine a fast direct winger like Chamberlain or valencia on the wing) with Lucas in there. That said...
Carroll by a mile, we all know Torres has quality that could have justified some of his fee, Carroll hasn't show that
Since their respective moves, Carroll has a strike rate double that of Torres. So it is undeniably Torres. On more than double Carroll's wages, Torres' relative lack of value is even starker.
Haven't been hopefull earlier but Andy has actually looked good for the last few games. Gotten a goal or two and a few assists and he looks a lot more mobile than before.
I Have to say Torres? I think that caroll has made à better performence in general than Torres. Caroll has not been good but he has been the better one.
For me, it's Fernando Torres. The last couple of games I was quite impressed with Andy Carroll. Some games he does not score, but he works hard for the squad. Torres got left out of the Spain squad due to lack of form.
Frankly, it's all about opinion. Liverpool fans are never going to dismiss their own player whilst crediting Torres in any way. In all fairness, both have been absolutely s**t since their respective moves. Carroll has been credited with "looking better" just recently, but part of me suspects people are trying to hard to find what they want to see. He's still not scoring anywhere near enough goals. A handful of cup goals, mostly against lower league opposition, does not a season make.
Two of the five goals Torres has scored in the last 13 months have been against Genk. Go to the Liverpool board you wont find anyone who thinks Carroll was worth £35m, not now or last January. However... Carroll has more goals in fewer games since both players moved Torres cost £15m more and is on a far higher wage Carroll is 5 years younger so has more time on his side to improve playing for a manager who has faith in him 6 months before the transfers Chelsea were League/FA cup champions and Liverpool were 7th and 6 years without a trophy. Chelsea brought in Mata to supply Torres and Liverpool Downing and yet Carroll is still scoring more. None of this changes the fact that Carroll has been an expensive flop at Liverpool. But from the time both players signed till the start of this thread and right this minute Fernando Torres has been the bigger flop. Its Undeniably True and possibly one of the few threads that Liverpool and Chelsea fans would agree on.
Stat's can make any clown look good. Carrolls saving grace will be his age, because liverpool will atleast be able to move him on in a few years for atleast a 1/3-1/2 of his initial fee. Agreed, he has looked better recently. much improved but he has yet to do ANYTHING of note versus either quality opposition or on a consistent basis. Carroll works hard for the team but also it seems that the team want to work hard for him and help him settle. Look at Torres at chelsea. Even their manager say's that when things go wrong they lack the confidence and mental strength to stick to their "new philosophy" and always revert to there old battering ram style cause they are more familiar with it. Torres is a lethal counter attacker. At liverpool, gerrard would pick the ball up in his own box, look for torres to run into the channel, feed him a great ball, and let torres use his pace and technique to fashion a chance/goal... 7 times out of 10 it worked. Chelsea just lump it forward and hope there man mountains (drogba, essien, ivanovic, lamps , even alex) get the rebound and smash it in. Torres has shown good form and pace at times , just the team isn't clicking with him. He is terribly short of form and confidence at the moment. can't deny that.. Andy carroll has scored against exeter, oldham atheltic, wolves, and brighton. Take a step backwards and analyze that. Both have been crap and Carroll is no where near justifying his price tag. In fact, I don't think he ever will because AC is similar to peter crouch. He'll bang in 8-12 goals a season but offers very little else. I guess he is similar to Berbatov at UTD, 35 million for a bench player although Berbatov has silky smooth skills and set's up alot of goals as well as absolutely destroys the smaller teams.
For me, Torres is starting to do positive things in other parts of the game. However, because he is a striker we judge him on his goalscoring (and rightly so) and he has done very little. Carroll every time I see him he's like an obstruction that Kuyt, Maxi, Suarez etc.. has to move around. I don't know I have to go with a draw in this case. I can't convince myself to pick either one.
Against quality opposition [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdUCpwa_FGA"]Andy Carroll Liverpool goals! ( 2 vs man city | 1 vs Liverpool ) BEAUTIFUL! - YouTube[/ame]
A lucky left footed bullet off a deflected header... Just like his newcastle days right? If you ever make it back into the CL, do you expect those tactics to work versus madrid, barcelona? Like the guy a few posts up said, carroll is almost an obstruction to the likes of suarez, maxi, kuyt. It's just hard to see how he fits in "TO" what Liverpool F.C. are supposed to be about. But whatever, lets save ourselves the argument, carroll has had a better season overall than fernando torres.
Cant Say about Carrol but I would never say Torres as flop. He was one of the biggest Assist maker on January and February. He has not been able to score goals but he has always been affective in Games with great assists. He has always been unselfish which I can see in games. Just he is in his way to return back to his form. Once he gets back to form, 50M would be too less to compare with him. You can see his previous performance in Liverpool.
Another post unluckily struck from a glorious volley and another match-winning assist for Torres today. What did Andy Carroll do? Torres has the fourth-most assists among strikers in the Premier League. His 7 assists is the same number as Wayne Rooney, despite playing over 800 minutes less football than the United playmaker. In case you were wondering, target man extraordinaire Carroll is credited with ONE assist in 27 hours of football. Sure, Chelsea didn't pay 50m for a striker to make assists, but he is playing well and has been for a large portion of the last few months. Also, the Chelsea team is starting to adapt its football. Not only to Torres' strengths, but in general. Torres is never going to return to his nearly goal-a-game form of yesteryear, but that's not to say he isn't still a top player who can be a great servant for Chelsea over the next few years. He looks to be an evolving player, as well. The linkup play and crossing ability he has exhibited this season was never on display during his Liverpool years. The fans love him, he puts in 100% for the team, and unlike under Ancelotti and Villas-Boas, Torres is actually getting chances to receive the ball at feet in threatening positions. Just a few more stats to close (since a certain Liverpool fan has used total goal rate to "prove" that Torres has flopped worse): Torres has been directly involved (goals + assists) in 10 of Chelsea's 55 league goals -- 18.2% -- while playing exactly 50% of the total minutes. Carroll has directly contributed (goals + assists) to 4 of Liverpool's 37 goals -- 10.8% -- in 56.4% of Liverpool's Premier League minutes. The fahchts speak for themselves...
Torres wasn't bought to provide assists; he was bought to score goals. Comparing him to Rooney this season seems a bit silly to me seeing as Rooney has also provided 30 goals to go along with his 7 assists. When did Torres ever average a goal a game? Or even come close to a goal a game? At best he averaged a goal every other game. Be careful of overstating Torres goal return. Great player, but in terms of hard numbers we're not talkig about Gerd Muller here.