Who is the bigger flop, Andy Carroll (Liverpool) or Torres (Chelsea)?

Discussion in 'Premier League' started by gameson, Dec 5, 2011.

  1. gameson

    gameson Member

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    but if you are saying Torres is being at the wrong club than his skill, how come he wouldn't florish in Spain National team either? That can't be a wrong 'club' (I would define club as a group of players in this context only)... from your post, if you are blaming in being at the wrong club and his skill stays intact, he would have been no problem in Spain. But instead, his place in Spain got threaten as well...

    Analogy to my post is Messi. He does not progress in Argentina because he has different set of players in that team, while he progresses nicely in Barcelona because of the right 'club'... For Torres, he is a flop in Chelsea and Spain, that tells that his skill somewhat gone and his best is behind him

    Now my argument for Carroll, he doesn't even make it in England and he is not preferred in Liverpool either... his price is inflated cause of Torres 50M. Although Carroll is young, but he was bought for 35M for one good season so Carroll price is projected with his potential, while Torress is bought cause of his past, that means Torres is proven and Carroll is not. Carroll can be Denilson of Brazil (the one with Real Betis), and Torres can be Shevchenko.

    All in all, both are flop in my eyes, and I think the biggest flop (at this time right now) would be Torres cause of the 50M tag. That's a lot of money for someone who can't deliver. If lets say both are a flop, then the one who lose the most is Chelsea. If both are sold right now in the next transfer window, rumour said that Torres can be bought for 20M. Carrol probably can be sold at 15M if he is being sold today. So Chelsea lose 30M, and Liverpool lose 15M, clearly Torres is the bigger flop (percentage lose wise and money wise).


  2. Myshoe

    Myshoe New Member

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    I agree they are both flops so far, Carroll lesser so because Liverpool paid £15m less. I don't think Liverpool will be too disappointed because they effectively got Carroll+Suarez in a trade for Torres (who had been underperforming long before Chelsea came knocking).

    The thing about Torres is that he looks lost and low on confidence, there was a time at Liverpool when opposition defenses feared him but now he's become a bit of a laughing stock. I wouldn't be surprised to see Torress go back to Spain after his Chelsea spell.
  3. epl predictor

    epl predictor New Member

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    Heres the solution guys...
    Straight swap Torres for Carroll. The styles of play that liverpool and chelsea have obviously dont suit the players and therefor they arent able to score.but i think that by swapping the players,everything would be solved. guarentee we would see their real potential.
  4. Dear_Claudio

    Dear_Claudio Member+

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    Carroll would still be shit with Chelsea because he is a shit player.

    Torres has actually been decent this season. He's been denied two wonder goals by the crossbar in recent games. The problem for Torres is that the Chelsea team around him simply isn't creating chances or scoring goals at the moment. However, he's going to have a run in the team (barring an injury or another stupid red card) for the next month-plus with Drogba away on international duty. With Sturridge now back to full fitness, Torres will actually get to play along with him and Mata in a run of games for the first time since he joined Chelsea.


  5. revelationx

    revelationx Member+

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    lol :d
  6. Tom_Heywood

    Tom_Heywood New Member

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    That must make Yakubu the new Jesus then. Who'd have know the new Messiah would be a slightly fat 45 year old Nigerian.
  7. glassjaw

    glassjaw Member

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    Torres, because he's actually a fantastic player. What a waste of money.
  8. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member

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    Well everyone expected that Carroll will flop...
  9. raspan1123

    raspan1123 Member

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  10. GranCanMan

    GranCanMan Member

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    Brilliant. Subjective, but brilliant.

    I think Chelsea, so far, have more reason to be disappointed. Carroll was always a long term thing, I think. Torres was expected to deliver, I think.
  11. revelationx

    revelationx Member+

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    Torres scored as many goals as Suarez did during Suarez' ban. Torres has scored as many Prem goals as Drogba since Drogba has been away at the ACN! Torres has scored as many Prem goals as Anelka has in January even though Anelka has been in China since Jan 1st! :eek:

    Torres has not scored a Prem goal for 4 and a half months. Torres has not scored a goal at all in his last 17 matches.

    Torres has 3 goals in 32 Prem games. His goals per game ratio has dropped to an all-time low of 0.094 goals per game! At Liverpool he was 0.64 goals per Prem game.

    Andy Carroll has 5 Prem goals in 28 which is 0.179 goals per game, almost double the Chelsea scoring rate of Torres.
  12. idreamofpikas

    idreamofpikas Member+

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    Must spread rep.


    Just read this in the Liverpool forum and was about to quote it in here.


    Carroll has flopped but the only smidgen of consolation we have is that he hasn't flopped as hard as Torres.
  13. knowdiggity

    knowdiggity New Member

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    Carroll was never considered a world class player, Torres was. Therefore when Carroll sucks in a match it's not as big a flop as Torres sucking in a match.
  14. Hitmonchan

    Hitmonchan Member

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    Both are better than Green
  15. puertorricane

    puertorricane Red Card

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    andy carroll is starting to come around and has looked better recently although still he needs to improve a lot, torres career is filled with great games so even though he has looked out of form for the past year he has a track record and has performed at a high level before while carroll hasnt.. so right now i would say is carroll
  16. CanStriker

    CanStriker Member

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    And despite all that, Torres has unfortunately continued to flop over these last few games. Its mind boggling, and the question begs asking, is Torres done, or is he just in a bad mental place with his current club, for whatever reason?

    The bottom line is he has definitely failed to deliver for Chelsea in spectacular fashion (over 40+ matches), and is not the answer Chelsea have been looking for at the CF position.
  17. GranCanMan

    GranCanMan Member

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    It's an interesting suggestion, even some would, understandably, scoff at the suggestionj that a once world class striker could be finished at 27.

    Ronaldinho went down hill very fast at a similar age. Shevchenko didn't impress beyond 30, and Veron moved to England and struggled throughout his entire time.

    The sttrange thing about Torres is that, unlike the two mentioned, he actually looked the part whilst playing over here. Whereas Veron and Shevchenko never looked like they'd settle, Torres was unstoppable for a time. His down-turn appears to be in luck, as well as form. His inexplicable misses against United this season (two of them, practically on a plate) appear to point to a massive lack of confidence.
  18. juanca

    juanca New Member

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    Not to sound like a douchE, but I believe that Torres doesn't enjoy playing with his new team mates.

    You often see Torres in great positions waiting for a good pass only to see the ineffective malouda or selfish sturridge ball hog and boot the ball into row Z or pass it right to the GK.

    Torres and Gerrard were/are on a different level. Even at liverpool, everyone said it was 9 men with orders to just get the ball to Stevie G and let him combine with FT and the goals would always come.

    At chelsea, you see that torres and mata often times hook up on the pitch. No surprise, they're both spanish but more importantly, they have the same footballing principles/ideas.

    When you look at players like malouda and sturridge, they are talented players but they are not team players. Sure, so long as the goals come on and the team wins its all fine, but when you paid 50million pound for a star striker in his prime, these guys should desperately be looking to get there team mate into the action.

    Torres has played what 1000+ minutes with 3 (?)goals. That's inexcusable and has no defense. However he has not looked like a pub player or played like complete trash.

    His touch is there, his movement is there, his runs and effort are there. I think i saw him even tracking back and making a tackle in the fullback area in a game last week...The guy is trying, his talent and ability is unquestionable.

    If chelsea are BRAVE enough to continue showing faith in him, and developing/building a team AROUND him that plays with cohesion and one aim that is to play as a team (win or lose), and not focus on individual awards or attention (selfish guys like sturridge or malouda or even kalou imo) Torres and chelsea will come through this period.


    Now, about big Andy...

    I watch alot of games. Everything i just said about FT was based on what I've seen. The same holds true for what I'm about to say about AC.

    A premiership player, regardless if he cost 35 million pound or "negative 15 million pounds" should be able to chest a ball down, trap a simple ball over the top, or make a simple pass.

    Andy carroll can do all of the above. My issue is that he doesn't do it enough, and when he doesn't, his attempts/failures are EMBARRASSING.
    Now, the good old kop will cheer his 1 or 2 successful chest downs or passes per game as if he just score a cup final winning goal, but realistically, the guys ability does not "mesh" with what LFC are seemingly trying to accomplish.

    The kid has "potential" but I don't see how dalglish and LFC plan to unearth that potential and polish him into a gem by leaving him on the bench more often than not. Liverpools ambition and desire for positive football tactics in my eyes mean that andy doesn't really fit and will never fit.
    I just wish I could see the big picture here, like what was their plan when they bought him?
  19. idreamofpikas

    idreamofpikas Member+

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    6 months before Torres joined Chelsea they had won the League and FA cup double. Suggesting that an entire Premier League winning squad to change the way they play to accommodate a player who at 27 has won nothing at club level is insane and may be one of the reasons why this season they are fighting for fourth as opposed to the title.

    Alonso, Xavi, Iniesta and Silva are hardly selfish players but Torres has struggled to adapt to them at International level. What players do you think Chelsea should acquire to get the best out of Torres?

    Considering in the 12 months since we signed him he's started in wins against Arsenal, Chelsea, United and twice against City its a bit unfair to label him a 'bench' player. We vastly overpaid for him but modern football is a squad game and Carroll will be an important squad player for us much like Heskey was. Hopefully he'll improve but if 12 months ago you told me that Carroll would have 2 more league goals than Torres I'd be overjoyed :p.

    The important thing to note though is we are in much the same position we were before we signed Carroll albeit with a Wembley appearance at the end of this month to look forward too while Chelsea have regressed. The disparity between Carroll and Torres wages means that we can justify keeping our 'flop' in the squad. With FFP can Chelsea really afford to have Torres as a squad player?
  20. CanStriker

    CanStriker Member

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    Indeed, it may be as simple as confidence, but for that to stretch out over two seasons? One might say he's lost his touch, for good.

    Drogba will be back from ACN any day now, so I'd say Torres' time in the starting XI at CFC is just about up.
  21. revelationx

    revelationx Member+

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    The fact remains, a year after signing for Chelsea, Torres has still scored more Prem goals for Dalglish than either Ancelotti or AVB. And Dalglish only had Torres for 3 weeks! A year after joining Chelsea, Torres has still scored more goals against Chelsea than for Chelsea!

    Torres' Prem scoring rate at Chelsea is now down to an all-time low of 0.09 goals per game down from 0.64 at LFC . Anichebe is regarded as one of the worst strikers to ever play for Everton. His Prem strike rate at Everton is better than Torres' at Chelsea! If Chelsea had bought Anichebe they would have likely got more goals out of him than Torres has scored! :eek:
  22. idreamofpikas

    idreamofpikas Member+

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    TBF that applies to us as much as Chelsea. Hell both teams could of stuck a couple of pylons at the top of the pitch and it would have gotten similar goal returns.

    [​IMG]
  23. revelationx

    revelationx Member+

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    Actually no. Carroll has a superior strike rate to Anichebe. Torres does not. So the comparison does not work for Carroll.
  24. idreamofpikas

    idreamofpikas Member+

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    Are you sure about that? Hasn't Anichebe only started 3 games in the league this season plus 3 sub appearances.
  25. revelationx

    revelationx Member+

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    My comparison was Anichebe's record at Everton in the Prem and compared it to Torres' at Chelsea. If you compare Carroll's record at LFC it is superior to Anichebe's at Everton. I was not talking about just this half-season.

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