Who is going to be the big Surprise in SouthAfrica 2010!!

So Pele would never have been world class if he was born in say Liechtenstein.

 

*double post*

 

Even if Pele was hypothetically born in Lichtenstein, and he didn't compete on those levels, it wouldn't have attributed to his actual class...He would have still been a world class player inspite of not being in those circumstances....

Adebayor and someone like Suker are typical stand out players inspite of their "smaller teams"

 

The word world class is not reserved for the sport of soccer, so your friend being an outsider of soccer or not is not important.

The hierarchy pyramid involves all the players in the world of a certain sport and on top of that pyramid is a select group that we call world class. How big that group is? 3/5/10 but when you go further you have to drop a level in the pyramid and you can not longer be called world class. Otherwise it has no point to use the label world class in the first place.

I don't think Pienaar is on top of that pyramid although it is a good player.

Point for me is that I don't understand people claim SA is better than Slovakia. Both are pretty weak teams, still I would go with Slovakia. Pienaar or no Pienaar, I'm sceptical about SA chances to progress from the group stages.

 

The Central Europeans and the Balkans are doing very well at the moment, also in European club football. This seems to have escaped a lot of people on BigSoccer but there's a lot of talent out there. South Africa by contrast has been mostly rubbish for quite a while now.

 

Be that as it may...everyone has their opinions. I have heard educated soccer people labelling him world class....Ive heard many people label him world class....wether he is, or isn't, is another debate....

Personally i feel Drogba is the best striker in the world....Some believe Ibrahimovich is, even though his stats far outweigh his potential....To me Messi has more potential than Ronaldo, but i personally feel Ronaldo is far better when it comes down to results....

I don't claim Pienaar tops the list by any means...but i still feel he falls under the term "world class", especially when you actually see the level of influence he has on a national team...

There must be some form of rating system...cause this really seems to be a very vague discussion with no one really having answers.

Another point:
I think monetary value influences people's perceptions. I have seen undiscovered players totally outplay world class players throughout matches...but because they are playing for expensive clubs, they are all of a sudden better. Someone like Macbeth Sibaya would be totally underrated, yet outplay some players better rated than him. There are a lot of excellent players in Africa especially that will be lower rated than some more well known players.

Anyways, just wondering wether the castrol index system or something of the sort has any weight as to who should be called world class, and who shouldn't? Because certainly your definition of top5 vs. my definition of top5 will be extremely different. By some peoples standards, Beckham will be top of their lists while there are 50 better wingers than him in the world.....

 

Be that as it may...everyone has their opinions. I have heard educated soccer people labelling him world class....Ive heard many people label him world class....wether he is, or isn't, is another debate....

Personally i feel Drogba is the best striker in the world....Some believe Ibrahimovich is, even though his stats far outweigh his potential....To me Messi has more potential than Ronaldo, but i personally feel Ronaldo is far better when it comes down to results....

I don't claim Pienaar tops the list by any means...but i still feel he falls under the term "world class", especially when you actually see the level of influence he has on a national team...

There must be some form of rating system...cause this really seems to be a very vague discussion with no one really having answers.

Another point:
I think monetary value influences people's perceptions. I have seen undiscovered players totally outplay "world class" players throughout matches...but because they are playing for expensive clubs, they are all of a sudden better. Someone like Macbeth Sibaya would be totally underrated, yet outplay some players better rated than him. There are a lot of excellent players in Africa especially that will be lower rated than some more well known players.

Anyways, just wondering wether the castrol index system or something of the sort has any weight as to who should be called world class, and who shouldn't? Because certainly your definition of top5 vs. my definition of top5 will be extremely different. By some peoples standards, Beckham will be top of their lists while there are 50 better wingers than him in the world.....

 

Rubbish in what sense?

 

If Pienaar is an average Premiership player then Hamsik is a subpar player... sorry... I am not going to defend the RSA team, but Pienaar is not a dime a dozen type of player. He is a key top half Premiership player and one of the best performing youngsters in the league.

As to RSA being rubbish: They have been extremely poor. But that said anyone who watched the Confederations Cup must say that the potential is there... I was actually surprised how well they played Brasil and Spain.

 

Have you ever seen Marek Hamsik play? Do you even know who he is?

The idea that Pienaar is among the ten best midfielders in England is almost laughable. He's a good player, but nothing more.

 

Yes. And he has a lot of learning. And starring in a mediocre Italian side hardly compares to starring in a Champions League contender Premier League side...

I am however increasingly sure you have no idea who Steven Pienaar is.

Martin Hamsik is a decent player. Nothing more.

 

What if Pienaar would not be SA ace card but Guus Hiddink.........

 

You're right, it's not like I watch the Premier League every week.
I've seen more than enough of Pienaar to know that he is nothing special, one of a host of good but not great players.

 

I dont know if Portugal can be qualified as a suprise/dark horse(probably they can due to peoples thoughts about their chances) but if they remain healthy this squad:

-----------Eduardo-----------
----Carvalho----Alves---------
Bosingwa------------------Veloso
-----------Pepe----------------
----Fernandes--Deco-----------
Danny-------------------Ronaldo
----------Liedson---------------

is dangerous as hell.

 

Everybody is ignoring the Swiss. They are flying under the radar. They could score a big upset against the seeded team of their group, or they could advance as a second place team and get say France as an opponent in the round of 16. That could take them into the round of 8 where the glass slipper should fall off.

Uruguay is another team that is poised to shock. They went to the wire to get here, but now they are here they could well surprise and go to the final four.

I have loved watching Denmark in the past, but they are a different team now. Still I would like to see them go deep into the tournament.

I would like to see the GOOD Mexico show up instead of the DISAPPOINTING Mexico. Which of the Jekyll and Hyde will be there?

How about bad showing surprises?
How about Germany getting into a group of death with a draw against a tough African side and a loss to say a Netherlands or Portugal on penalties and then the Germans conceding a late goal for a draw against Japan for only their second point in group and not making it out. Perhaps losing the spot on goal differential. THAT would be a shocker, because surely Germany is touted at least final four.

Italy or England failing go beyond 16 would be sad but not unheard of, perhaps getting beaten by Australia. Brazil finishing second in group would be a shock.
If Argentina gets a tough draw, Maradona will NEED the hand of God to guide his disorganized team out of group.

 

I guess the fact that he was voted player of the year last night...in a country that has millions of soccer players and fans, make you right and them wrong....right?

I just think you haven't really seen him play....
Or maybe you prefer the more flashy players?

I'm not saying he is the best there is...but many people including me, label him world class....

 

In every sense!

 

germany's been to the quarterfinals of every world cup since 1954, that's 14 consecutive times...if you look up the word consistency in the dictionary there should be a dfb logo next to it...so no chance in hell germany goes out in the group stages trust me

 

The group stages in the euro is a lot more difficult to progress from than the world cup though, just about all 16 euro finalists are of at least a decent standard of quality.
plus those german sides of 2004 & particulary 2000 were surely the worst german sides since pre-ww2.
btw overall brazil has exited 3 times in the 1st round (group & knockout),
italy has about 5 or 6 1st rd exits by memory.....germany by comparison only once and that's way back in 1938 and half that side was austrian!

 

Your effort to explain yourself is epic....I can from now on ignore every post you make on this comment alone....

 

Well if i'm gonna take the word from a few internet posters on forums vs. those that are actually in the professional scene, i'd much rather choose the latter.

Your opinion is always welcome though.

 

To me Germany are the best crossers of the ball in the game. If South Africa had to learn how to cross the ball (which they don't), i'd choose germans to teach them....