Who are the greatest traditional targetmen in history?

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Excape Goat, Mar 29, 2012.

  1. RoyOfTheRovers

    Jul 24, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England

    [Lawton is an odd case because he was originally brought through as a "pyramid"-type C-F who then went on to become one of the greatest and most effective "W-M"-mould No.9s to ever wear the number on the back of his shirt. The main reason that Lawton was so dangerous when doing things like beating opponents w/the ball at his feet or "threading" passes off to team-mates is because he originally lined up as a "classic" centre-forward:


    http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/ARSENALlawton.htm


    (W/the Spartacus profile, make sure that you scroll clear down and read the bonus text on Lawton)


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/football_legends/11906.shtml


    Once again, I hope that you will find this information helpful, "PDG"...]
     
  2. RoyOfTheRovers

    Jul 24, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
  3. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Thanks for this and all your other informative links Roy. I'm still intending to study this one fully but from what I've already read I did notice a reference to Charles moving around more than a typical number 9 of the time. From the footage of Charles I've seen (including volleyed goals from the edge of the box etc IIRC) I also understand Jack Charlton's reference to him surging forward with the ball from the back. He seemed to combine a very sound touch with his powerful physical attributes to very good effect.
     
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  4. glennaldo_sf

    glennaldo_sf Member+

    Houston Dynamo, Penang FC, Al Duhail
    United States
    Nov 25, 2004
    Doha, Qatar
    Club:
    FL Fart Vang Hedmark
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Miroslav Klose has had an excellent international record lately...
     
  5. RoyOfTheRovers

    Jul 24, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Charles wearing the No.9 on the back of his shirt:


    [Agreed & I might have mentioned this before: Charles wasn't a big fan of the whole playing w/your back to the opposition's goal while their "stopper" of a centre-half breathed down the back of your neck IMO. It probably came from his earlier playing days of lining-up as a "deep-lying" W-H or as a No.5 where he was facing away from his own goal most of the time.

    The whole idea of any given side's No.9 centre-forward just parking himself in the centre of his team's attack and waiting for aerial balls to come in his general vicinity is greatly over-played in more modern times IMO. Roy Bentley, Nat Lofthouse, Jackie Milburn & Stan Mortensen all did MUCH more than simply "park" themselves "up top" and all were regarded as some of the greatest & most effective No.9s of their era.]
     
  6. sinner78

    sinner78 BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 7, 2001
    Jan Koller was a great target forward .
     
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  7. RoyOfTheRovers

    Jul 24, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    On a related side note, I've noticed that there seems to be a bit of confusion between the position known as a so-called deep-lying "centre-forward: and that of a "withdrawn"-type of C-F. Does anyone need me to explain the difference(s) between these two positions?
     
  8. RoyOfTheRovers

    Jul 24, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England

    [This is funny because, as I've posted before, Charles absolutely LOATHED the "target"-like aspects of wearing the No.9 on the back of his shirt.]
     
  9. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    Hate to break it to you, but I'm pretty sure most people would rather consider Batistuta than Rossi.
     
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  10. RoyOfTheRovers

    Jul 24, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England

    [Roy Race (the comic strip character) would almost certainly be classified as a "W-M"-type No.9 IMHO (like Bedford Jezzard, "Lofty", etc.).]
     
  11. RoyOfTheRovers

    Jul 24, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England

    [At or near the peak of his playing career; I would classify Shearer as more of a throw-back to a "W-M"-type No.9 rather than lining up as a "target"-type striker. That's why the press was always calling Shearer things like an "old-fashioned English centre-forward, etc.

    Now, when Shearer mobility had fallen WAY off during the latter part of his career I would say that he played like much more of a "target" striker. Also, when Shearer was paired up-front w/Les Ferdinand w/the Toon he sometimes tended to look like more of "target" striker because Ferdinand tended to fill the role odf the "channel-runner": what used to be called the "auxilliary" centre-forward back in the days of the "T C-F P"...]
     
  12. RoyOfTheRovers

    Jul 24, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    [Or "ping" high crosses at least in the general vicinity of in the centre of your own attack/in the opposition's "danger area". This is the origin of the term: this type of central forward/striker is a "target" that his own team can "aim" high balls at in the hope that he can make something happen in an attacking situation.

    BTW, I'm simply trying to expand on what you were saying, comme...]
     
  13. RoyOfTheRovers

    Jul 24, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
  14. RoyOfTheRovers

    Jul 24, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
  15. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
  16. Excape Goat

    Excape Goat Member+

    Mar 18, 1999
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Drogba just sealed his place in history. I don't think he is the greatest, but he is among the greatest.
     
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  17. RoyOfTheRovers

    Jul 24, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    This is solid op-ed piece/blog entry where David Lacey of The Guardian talks about so-called "deep-lying" C-Fs v. "W-M spearhead"-types. As a fellow eyewitness to Bolton & England legend Nat Lofthouse on a pitch; Lacey also mentions that Lofthouse could do more than just function as a "telegraph pole" in the opposition's danger area. The main subject is Don Revie (as a player) and Man. City in the '56 FA Cup Final utilising the "Revie Plan":


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/may/13/manchester-city-don-revie



    Once again, I hope that you will find this information helpful...
     
  18. RoyOfTheRovers

    Jul 24, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
  19. Fc_Porto

    Fc_Porto Member

    Oct 26, 2009
    Club:
    FC Porto
    Fernando Peyroteo
     
  20. RoyOfTheRovers

    Jul 24, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England


    [This is a great quote from "Sir Stan" on Lawton as it relates to your question:]



    6) Stanley Matthews, The Way It Was (2000)
    Tommy Lawton possessed a rocket of a shot and, like all great players, could hit the ball equally well with either foot. He was lethal in the air and, most surprisingly for a centre-forward of the time, had all the ball skill and creative prowess of the most mercurial of inside-forwards. Tommy was a goal-getter, a towering athlete with a seemingly elasticated neck that enabled him to rise that inch or so above defenders, which he did often to devastating effect. With his shirt unbuttoned so that it appeared to be sliding off his shoulders, a sharp flint-like face, hair greased back to form a black V off his forehead and long stringy legs protruding from his baggy shorts, he cut an unmistakable figure on the pitch. Tommy was a star but without all the designer trappings of today's footballers. He'd dress in a long, belted overcoat with slightly spivvy shoulders, double-breasted pinstriped suit and immaculately polished shoes. The only indication that he was different from the fans who worshipped him from the terraces was his trademark gaudy ties, which gave him the air of a Hollywood gangster.
    Tommy was a handful for defences; he put himself about, as they say. He knew a centre-forward was expected to run through a brick outerhouse if need be and he never shirked from his responsibilities. His dominance in the air was unsurpassed and he would often hurl himself at the opposing goalkeeper and centre-half when the odds were against him winning the ball. If he didn't win the ball, neither did the goalkeeper. What resulted was a scramble in the goalmouth between him and the defenders that reminded me of the scrummage to get on the last tram of the night.



    [It's segment No.6 from that Spartacus profile on Lawton that I posted the link to once before...]
     
  21. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Thanks Roy, and well spotted regarding the bolded text. I remember a Notts County fan who's a friend of mine showed me a video of a right-footed drive from the edge of the box before - I just had a quick look for it and couldn't find anything but I did find this British Pathe video (you've linked those before so you might have seen it) with Lawton scoring 4 including 2 headers from Stanley Matthews crosses (Lawton 'nodding them in' as my Granddad also a Notts County fan used to say):
    http://www.britishpathe.com/video/football-england-v-scotland-at-manchester
    Apologies to any Scots viewing the thread!
     
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  22. RoyOfTheRovers

    Jul 24, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England



    [Not only did I see that Pathe newsreel in an actual cinema: I attended that match @ Maine Rd. in Oct. of '43 because my father and uncle (mostly my father) helped to organise war-time football through the FA. Sheffield Utd. cult legend Jimmy Hagan also bagged a brace in that match and the England captain was the COMMANDING Wolves centre-half Stan Cullis. There's also footage of "Sir Stan" when he still had things like his searing acceleration to go along w/his "bag of tricks" and Raich Carter getting forward from those deeper areas that he liked to operate in at that stage of his career (as I've mentioned before).

    Thanks for all the memories, mate... :thumbsup:!!]
     
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  23. RoyOfTheRovers

    Jul 24, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
     
  24. RoyOfTheRovers

    Jul 24, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    This is some more footage of Lawton in action v. Scotland from Apr. of '45 in another "W-TI" @ Hampden Pk. Lawton bags a brace in this game:




    http://www.britishpathe.com/video/scotland-v-england-international



    Once again, I hope that you will find this information helpful & I can post the line-ups for both of these England v. Scotland matches if anyone wants to see them...
     
  25. RoyOfTheRovers

    Jul 24, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Stan Mortensen almost always wore the No.9 on the back of his shirt for Blackpool week-in & week-out & this is often forgotten because he mostly wore either the No.8 or the No.10 shirt for England (as the "up-field"-type of I-F) IMHO:



    http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/BLACKPmortensen.htm
     

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