News: Whitecaps won't field W-League team in 2013

Discussion in 'NWSL' started by GOALSeattle, Dec 7, 2012.

  1. GOALSeattle

    GOALSeattle Member

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  2. necron99

    necron99 Member

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    Well if their dedication to women's soccer depends entirely on having a captive audience of CanWNTers then I don't think that makes them an excellent addition.

    Some light reading on Ciara McCormack's website should be interesting to many here.

    http://girlscansocceradventures.wordpress.com/2011/12/09/wps-whitecaps-and-duane-rollins/
  3. WPS_Movement

    WPS_Movement Member

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    Vancouver is certainly an expansion candidate in 2014 or 2015.
    Here are the expansion candidates in 2014 and 2015.

    Los Angeles
    San Diego
    San Francisco / Bay Area
    Vancouver
    Denver
    Dallas
    Houston
    St. Louis
    Atlanta
    Orlando or Miami (Florida team)
    Carolina (Cary or Raleigh)
    Columbus
    Philadelphia

    These are all prime soccer areas that don't have a team in the league yet.
    All you need is good ownership. Any of these cities and areas can be a a success in this league.
    I don't see them expanding anywhere else in the U.S. It would be foolish to expand with a Bismarck, North Dakota team, or somewhere like that.

    Now, I'm not saying the league will have 20 teams or anything like that (yet, certainly not by 2015). Which four from the list above will eventually join the current eight, to form a 12 team super league?

    This league has options. Just need good owners. The expansion moves also have to make geographic sense to cut back on travel costs, etc. We also know that the state of California will only be in this league if they bring at least two total expansion teams. One team won't be enough. They need to bring a total of at least two franchises to the mix.

    From this list above, I predict that by 2015, Los Angeles, Bay Area, Vancouver, and Philadelphia, will be the four expansion teams. Atlanta might want in, but they'll geographically have to bring a Florida or Carolina team, to make it worth expanding into the Southeast.

    I see two divisions ....

    West: Vancouver, Portland, Seattle, Los Angeles, Bay Area, Kansas City
    East: Sky Blue, Western NY, Washington D.C., Boston, Philadelphia, Chicago

    Then, later down the road (by the year 2018 or so), if the league expands with five more teams, such as Atlanta, Florida, Carolina, St. Louis and Columbus, then I see four divisions with four teams in each division (five teams in the West).

    West: Vancouver, Portland, Seattle, Los Angeles, Bay Area
    Midwest: Kansas City, St. Louis, Chicago, Columbus
    South: Atlanta, Carolina, Florida, Washington D.C.
    East: Sky Blue, Western NY, Boston, Philadelphia

    Of course, that only happens if the league becomes a big success over the next few years.

    Now, after that setup of four divisions, if a Texas team (such as Dallas or Houston) wants in, or if Denver wants in, they go straight in to the Midwest division, and they change the name of the Midwest division to the "Central Division". If both Texas and Denver want in, then Texas goes to the Central (Midwest) division, and Denver goes to the West division. So you have options there with both Texas and Denver. And let's say if a New York City franchise wants in (separate from the Sky Blue franchise out of NY/NJ area), then they go in to the East division. If Florida wants a 2nd team in, they would go in to the South division.

    The dominoes would all have to fall just right for all of this to happen, which would be the best case scenario for the league over the next 7-8 years. The league can grow and at least double their total of teams, with the growth of the sport, and the talent pool coming up domestically and internationally (youth wise) in U.S., Canada, Mexico, Costa Rica, Brazil, plus some young Eastern Hemisphere players coming over. And all those great Rookie drafts coming up over the next 7-8 years.

    2013: 8 teams are perfect for now.
    2014: 10 teams are perfect
    2015: 10 or 12 teams
    2016: 12 teams
    2018: 14 - 16 teams
    2020: 18 - 20 teams

    I think the league would stop at 20 (max).
    16 might ultimately be the optimal number by the year 2020, to keep each team strong in talent from spots #1 through #18 on each roster.
  4. WPS_Movement

    WPS_Movement Member

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    Remember, this isn't just an American domestic league.
    This is a CONCACAF and ultimately predominantly Western Hemisphere league, with an open invitation for young and low-cost international talent to come over. 16-20 teams is laughable now. It wouldn't be laughable 7-8 years from now, as the league continues to push forward, and more diverse and young talent enter the league from all over the Western Hemisphere, and more integration from low-cost internationals.


  5. necron99

    necron99 Member

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    I don't care about the rest of what you wrote, but you didn't read what I said above. Some people including the Feds might consider Vancouver Whitecaps an expansion candidate. What I said above is that they shouldn't be considered. The step to not run a team when CanWNTers can't be forced to play for them further proves that they are not interested in the women's game or CanWNT development. It was just a feather in their cap. They didn't say congratulations to the CanWNT campers that have spent time with us and are moving up to the pros. They didn't say we will continue to find and develop the next set of players in the running for the CanWNT and u-level CanWNTs. They said we know we will lose our monopoly, so we chose to quit. Read the article that I posted.
  6. WPS_Movement

    WPS_Movement Member

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    I read it. I still think Vancouver can be an expansion candidate, despite what it says.
    The nation of Canada has plenty of young women's soccer talent.
    So does the Northwest and Pacific areas of America.
    Because of this, Vancouver is always an option. Maybe not as strong of an option as they were before, but still an option nonetheless.
  7. necron99

    necron99 Member

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  8. WPS_Movement

    WPS_Movement Member

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    It's not that I don't agree with you.
    Things change so much over just the course of one or two years though, and Canada is a strong women's soccer nation overall. Vancouver is such a great area for the league, and I always believe there will truthfully be mutual interest to try to make it all work out (but the timing has to be right), and right now, the timing isn't right. Things do change over time.
  9. necron99

    necron99 Member

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    Vancouver and Canada can be great places for a team, that has nothing to do with whether the Whitecaps should run it.
    Katreus repped this.
  10. WPS_Movement

    WPS_Movement Member

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    Certainly.
    But this is true with Seattle as well right now.
    Great expansion areas, but can't always use the same team name, and it's not always the same ownership.
  11. necron99

    necron99 Member

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    But of course the point of this thread is the Vancouver WHITECAPS... hence my comments about the WHITECAPS.
  12. GOALSeattle

    GOALSeattle Member

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    This move by the Whitecaps doesn't erase the good they've done over the years for women's soccer in BC. It also might back up some of the links above.

    However, think of the players and fans that enjoyed this team from 2001-2011. It's really a generation of girls who know them as their only team, and that might be important to the "next" pro women's team in Vancouver.

    This is a city / region that has almost always outdrawn Seattle's W-League teams (only 2012 is an exception).

    The new women's league would likely be open to the Whitecaps current ownership jumping onboard again at some point. I am not sure how much of a final "goodbye" this is for the Whitecaps in women's soccer.
  13. necron99

    necron99 Member

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    I agree that the links above seem to be proven out by this move by the Whitecaps. I hope that a strong ownership group brings an expansion franchise to Vancouver and carries on the strong soccer tradition. The girls in that area deserve better.
  14. GOALSeattle

    GOALSeattle Member

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  15. TsovLoj

    TsovLoj Member

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    Didn't Connecticut explicitly say they wanted in for 2014? And I know there were at least rumblings about the Ottawa Fury.
  16. SiberianThunderT

    SiberianThunderT Member

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    CT wanted in for 2013 and were one of the groups not accepted. T.Fol's hoping for 2014 expansion at this point.
    http://equalizersoccer.com/2012/11/21/connecticut-hopes-for-expansion-bid-again/

    I think the "rumblings" about the Fury were more fan/media speculation, I don't think they were applied. (Though, with four denied applications, three of the being LA, CT, SEA(Sounders), there is still room for that fourth group.)

    On topic, I remember reading some of the articles/blogs linked above when they came out. This recent move by the Whitecaps makes no sense to me except in the context of those articles/blogs. My opinion of the 'caps organization when it comes to WoSo has not been raised at all. VAN may be a good expansion candidate, but not with the current MLS-affiliated organization.
  17. WPS_Movement

    WPS_Movement Member

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    Oh sh**, I forgot about Connecticut.
    Good catch. Forgot all about them.
    Would be nice to get Ottawa too.

    We might not be able to have the Vancouver Whitecaps, but under a different name and possible ownership, they could be the Vancouver Snowcaps. I like that name better.

    You know, nothing is more beautiful than snow-cap mountains.
    What a beautiful team logo that could be.

    [​IMG]
  18. bythesea

    bythesea Member

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    It's still mysterious and a step backward but from Rachel Lewis's remarks the W-League doesn't suit them right now. The U18s aren't ready for the W-League. Without the CNTers in the past two seasons most of the starting spots have been taken by Americans. If the motivation is to support local players then this isn't worth the expenditure. Only a very small number of players, maybe the U20s Setterlund, Richardson, and Sawicki, are benefiting from a local W-League team. The players who have finished their college eligibility need to make the decision to quit high level soccer or go pro. The W-League only postpones that decision.
  19. necron99

    necron99 Member

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    I will stick with my belief that it is a cop out. There are always players that need development, so move up early, and some need more game time after college.
  20. SweetOwnGoal

    SweetOwnGoal Member

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    Since my name is actually in the title of that article...

    I think it is fair to at least put the Whitecaps response to that article out there. It wasn't much, but I did speak to Bob Lenarduzzi at the time and he did strongly suggest that Ciara's view was not universal amongst other players that had played for the Whitecaps women.

    He also strongly reiterated his support of the women's game.

    I'm not trying to argue one way or the other, but I did want to put his view out. He didn't want to directly respond to Ciara as he saw it as counterproductive to get in an Internet shouting match with a former player.

    Duane Rollins,
    Canadian Soccer News

    PS -- As an aside, although Ciara and I aren't exactly exchanging Christmas cards, I do think the back and forth we had about this subject was productive and, at least speaking from my perspective, it opened my mind to some issues facing the women's game...
  21. TsovLoj

    TsovLoj Member

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    Yo, so if you know all these Whitecaps people, what do you think the odds are of you guys coming into the league in a year or two?
  22. SweetOwnGoal

    SweetOwnGoal Member

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    It's a question I'm trying to get an answer on, but I know the CSA is pushing for team(s) here in the near future. The last I talked to the Caps about their women's plans they indicated that they didn't think the WPS model was viable (and they turned out to be right) and stressed that they were committed to "developing" the women's game.

    They are business focused. I suspect they will be taking a hard look at the league this year and there is some CSA pressure to get canadian teams in the league. If the league is successful this year, I'd suggest there is about a 75% chance you'll see Vancouver at least making a move towards joining, if not joining outright.

    A joint east-west expansion into Canada with the Ottawa Fury makes a lot of sense (and I have talked to Fury people off-record who bluntly said that they would not be going into the new league in its first year , but would be looking to move up if it was successful. They feel that if they put the team in now and the league fails then they will take a step backwards as a club).

    Speaking personally: I feel Ottawa is the team this league should want. They are a first clas organization and very professionally run.
  23. necron99

    necron99 Member

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    I think the fact that Vancouver dropped their team already there isn't a team to move up. There are plenty of players that need coaching, training, and play time that could have played for the Whitecaps this season. That is what developing the game is about. The Whitecaps ceded their position of authority.
  24. necron99

    necron99 Member

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    Fair enough, the point is the Whitecaps and not you. I would say that it is highly unlikely that any player would honestly tell the team owner how they felt if they were in the situation that has been described.
  25. SweetOwnGoal

    SweetOwnGoal Member

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    i wasn't making it about me. I was trying to provide a balanced position on the Whitecaps.

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