Which US players performed better in '06: MLS or European

The majority of our offense (4 shots on goal and 1 goal ) came from EJ and Dempsey. Conrad played solid, as did Mastroeni. We had a few guys based in Europe show up (Gooch, Convey, Bocanegra maybe),but not the performance we'd hoped for from the European players. In '02 Donovan, Beasley, McBride, and Mathis all from the MLS were the stand outs.

Just my opinion, but the MLS guys seem to have a different mentality going into a World Cup than the Euro players. An heir of confidence, border line cockiness that the overseas players seem to lack. Is this just an incorrect perception, or do others notice this as well? If so, is it lack of playing time in Europe or exposure to superior talent that intimidates them? What is it?

The MLS players that played did us proud. I was thinking all along that Arena put in European players because he figured they knew how to play against European players. He couldn't have done worse putting in more MLS players who know each other and play the same game -- have the same game mentality.
Too bad we didn't see more time from MLS players.

If anything, our European players acted more timid and intimidated than their MLS counterparts. Yes, there are exceptions (Donovan, Keller), but for the most part, MLS players performed better than the YAs. That is still not saying much, for neither of them performed very well. But this was a failure of leadership, and those presumably with the experience - Reyna, Beasley, Lewis et al. - failed to provide that leadership.

Clearly, European. Look at that terrible first goal vs. Ghana. Dempsey the MLS guy just killed European-based Reyna with that back pass. Forcing him to play the ball while getting only 8 yards of space? Terrible. Unspeakable. Typical MLS idiocy.

On a serious note, we need to get Beasley back in the U.S. so that he can become a real player again. And yes, I am absolutely serious. Europe is not for everybody. It is killing DaMarcus's game.

Hmm...


I'd say it was a slight edge to the MLS players:


Standout Euros

Gooch
Cherundolo
Bocanegra


Standout MLS

Dempsey
Conrad
EJ
Mastro



I will say though that waaaay more Euros performed under expectations than the MLSers did:

Crappy Euros

Reyna
Keller (terrible distribution)
Beasley
McBride

Crappy MLSers

Donovan
Pope

Donovan was awful, and he obviously plays in MLS. But with him I think its mental. He doesn't have it in him to be great. He doesn't want it badly enough. I don't think he'll ever fulfill his potential regardless of where he plays his club ball.

What I find interesting is the last time an Arena coached team looked good was back in the January friendlies with all MLS players. Our "B" team kicked the crap out of Japan's and Norway's "B" teams. That team showed skill, movement, aggressiveness, finishing, and basically everything our WC team did not. I bet our "B" team would have shown better in the WC.

As the old saying goes, its not the size of the dog in the fight, its the size of the fight in the dog. My guess is MLS guys are hungrier and are willing to run through brick walls to prove themselves. That counts for a lot, obviously. Maybe our "A" team will show the same spirit next time.

Here's a better question: which US players performed better relative to expectations, MLS or European players?

The unbiased stats say:

Gooch -13 - Belgium
Dempsey - 11 - USA
Conrad - 11 - USA
Donovan - 8 - USA
McBride - 6 - UK
Reyna - 5 - UK
Convey - 3 - UK
Beasley - 3 - Netherlands
Mastro - 2 - USA
O'Brien - 1 - USA
Wolff - 1 - USA
EJ - 1 - USA
Chund - 0 - Germany
Olsen - 0 - USA
Albright - 0 - USA
Berhalter - 0 - Germany
Ching - 0 - USA
Boca - (-1) - UK
Lewis - (-7) - UK
Pope - (-10) - Belgium

The stats are from here:

Link

This obviously doesn't account for playing time.

I say go with an all MLS lineup next World Cup. Why not?

Thing with Donovan is he had two real lousy games and one fantastic game. I'm not sure where that fits on the scale.

The high marks people are giving Cherundolo puzzle me. I did not think he played particularly well. But then I thought McBride played better than he's being given credit for, though obviously he wasn't as good as he has been in the past.

I think the US coach certainly needs to do a better job of using players who play the same style. Maybe it's time the US soccer federation makes an effort to steer US players to one country and league in Europe if players want to go to Europe. The current system of "let's get them to Europe" certain isn't working well.

I have a problem with the whole concept of this thread, in that basically the whole squad, from head coach, to assistants, to players, to planning, preparation, tactics, and effort were dissappointing accross the board. Posters are trying to create a conflict or comparison where there really isn't one. It was pretty much a mess from the get-go, and stayed consistantly so all three games, with the added spice of a few dubious referee calls.

As to the specific critiques of players, I'll add a few comments in red:

Standout Euros The word standout does not apply to any player Euro or MLS who played in this Cup

Gooch Had some OK moments but plenty of bad moments like the stupid yellow card, not marking Koller on the 1st goal, the weak clearing header, misstiming his move on the 3d Czech goal, and not providing support/cover (nor did Conrad) when Reyna made his disasterous play against Ghana.

Cherundolo Shakey against Czechs, but OK after.

Bocanegra Good assertive presence that was much needed, but poor clearance on the play leading the the phantom Ghana PK.


Standout MLS Again, no standouts anywhere.

Dempsey Nice goal. Assertive play against Italy. Dissappeared at times against Ghana. Only player to improve his stock, if only somewhat.

Conrad Stepped in under difficult circumstances and did OK, but like Gooch, provided no support/cover as any central back must do (basic zonal defensive concept) on the infamous play when Reyna took the drop pass from Dempsey.

EJ One very promising appearance against Italy giving a rare US offensive spark. A weak appearance against Ghana when something special was needed.

Mastro Non-factor against Czechs and rightfully subb'ed out. Nice 43 minute performance against Italy, and then a totally stupid tackle in the 44th minute in a non-dangerous situation. You can debate yellow vs. red, but that was really dumb either way.



I will say though that waaaay more Euros performed under expectations than the MLSers did: No one did waaaay more than anyone else in any aspect.

Crappy Euros

Reyna Reyna was one of the few field players who was OK against the Czechs, had a terrific game against Italy and was doing fine against Ghana until his amazing brain-dead moment. The US midfield play evaporated in the 2nd half without him, resorting to mostly wasted longballs. One REALLY crappy play, but otherwise standard Claudio solid play.

Keller (terrible distribution) When has Keller's distribution EVER been good? People have known this for a decade, which is one reason so many fans prefer Friedel. Keller was his usual solid self in this cup. 2 nice saves against Italy. Far from crappy.

Beasley Defensive effort was fine, but as we all saw, the offensive effort was lacking. Did have a nice cross to Dempsey.

McBride This is unfairly harsh. He was isolated as the solo-striker too much, something many fans knew ahead of time would be a problem. He worked hard in every game and had one of the few shots on target with his header off the post. Fed Donovan a nice pass that Landon shanked. Arena probably over-used him.

Crappy MLSers

Donovan The BIGGEST single dissappointing player, given the hype about his skills and talent as THE MLS cover-boy. 2nd leading active US scorer? 0 shots on net in 3 games tells it all. Did hustle and give a solid effort against Italy, when expulsions left him with more space/time.

Pope Some good and some bad, but definitely past his prime.

Truly, for some reason, playing in Europe makes U.S. players for the most part, lose confidence, particularly when playing against Eurpean teams IN Europe. Its as if they are reminded they are playing the "star" players from this countries champions league teams and they are the "lowly" or "upstart" American mearly trying to get the a starting job with their "regular" squads.

Claudio Reyna's post game remarks say it all... he something the like that the U.S. is still a lowly (third world) soccer nation. Whatever, truth there may be in that statement, the fact that he even makes such a statement says a thousand words. You see, its all psycological. MLS go in with good old cocky American conficence regardless of what others have to say. (Sort of like the U.S. olympic team and event the 2002 US/MLS team). The second an American forgets this and deals with the event as a "European" he has lost a major advantage regardless of the other team's talent/exerience/etc.

I personally, beleive whatever gain the US had in Reyna playing/participating they lost it from a psycological standpoint. Considering, Reyna's lame remarks, can anyone believe he gave the US players confidence. Players, like Hejduk and Mathis were sorely missed from this cup. Ultimately, I believe it is that attitude that made the difference from a players perspective. Arena, and coaching desisions were other. Last, and I do not make this an excuse, the horendous officiating....however, this has affected several teams asside from the US. I'm not saying the outcome would have been different. But in two of the 3 games the referee made critical mistakes that would have changed the entire run of play.

So what should he say? Just curiouos? What would you like him to say? You think that if he says "Were the greatest team on Earth", and Arena still plays that lame 4-5-1 that things will change? Actions speak louder than words. Or maybe Reyna's words got Landon all in a tizzy, hence his below par performance. I recall Landon and Beasley with a ton of bravura prior to the Copa. What do you attribute their lousy performance to? This is an assinine mode of reasoning.

Can you please tell me where you watched this match? I think mine was broken because this was something that should have happened but never did.

Moreover, you can make an analagous statement about other national teams in the Cup: Japan has many players drawn from the J-League where they are stars in their own right. Did that make Japan a better team against strong Euro sides? No. The bottom line was that they just weren't as good as the competition. Unfortunately, that's a tough pill to swallow for us - but it's true: USMNT just wasn't as good as the competition either. Period.

We have four years to work on that.

Typo due to composing late at night. I'd like to go back and correct to Czechs, not Italy, but it's too late to edit my post.

Primary blame certainly goes to Reyna. However, yes, Conrad or Gooch should have dropped back in support of Reyna. When your team HAS possession, why would Conrad or Gooch choose marking an opponent over playing proper supporting defensive shape?

I know

I think this debate is fun, but ultimately not that useful. If we want to become a real contender for the World Cup, our best players have to play overseas in the best leagues in Europe. If you look at all of the serious contenders, all of them have their stars playing in Europe. Even Mexico, whose has a league much better than MLS (if any doubts, see concacaf champions cup results recently), hasn't gotten any further than the 2nd rd recently with nearly all players playing domestically. I can't see us ever being a consistent threat to win the WC with only using MLS players.
I don't think you can argue that our players have gotten worse by going to Europe.

Isn't that what happened in this World Cup? What happened? Or am I wrong, and we're in the second round and no one told me?

I think for the sake of players, Europe cannot be discounted as an option. They got the money and most of the prestige. Go there if you want to be a star. Go there if you want to be rich. Go there if you think you can be a better club player. But for the sake of the national team and the growth of US soccer, Europe has not been a solution since the creation of MLS. Clearly, our performance in Germany has shown for the first time that the YA movement and the US soccer movement have been at cross-purposes. It's just a shame that a three-and-out result had to demonstrate it.

Look at the list of crappy Euro's.

If you notice, all of them exept for Beasley are over 30 and towards the end of their careers.

People act as though Beasley was tearing MLS up. I remember a guy who had maybe a goal or two and an assist or two a season. What hurt Beasley was bigger Euro defenders making him afraid of getting fouled. He needs to get his confidence back and once that happens look out. Since he went to Europe his finnishing has improved.