I think he means it as a simple point of arithmetic. How many Dutch play professional futbol outside of Europe? Many Argentines do, which helps their cause when making per capita calculations. Depending on how one defines "quality" for the purposes of this thread, each of the following criteria could be divided by population. # of professional players # of pros outside of home league # of pros in top 3-5 leagues in world (Eng,Spain,Italy,Germany,France?) # of pros playing CL/UEFA cup for teams outside of home league # number of players with transfer values over $X (pick whatever cutoff) from each country. Still the above criteria is not perfect because it does not account for economic differences between the home countries (affecting some transfer values and the desire to stay home) and the effect of non-EU restriction on players in some European leagues. How many Dutch play in Spain and Italy? Serious question, I do not know. I know there are many Argies and Urus in those leagues.
[QUOTE # of pros in top 3-5 leagues in world (Eng,Spain,Italy,Germany,France?)j.[/QUOTE] The notion the French league in particular is superior to Brasil or Argentina is nonsense. The Bundesliga and Serie A debateable.
The notion the French league in particular is superior to Brasil or Argentina is nonsense. The Bundesliga and Serie A debateable.[/QUOTE] I am pretty sure the three you mention pay more and can buy more established players. Thus you have more first choice NT players from both Brazil and Argentina in those leagues than in the their home leagues. Sure Brazil and Arg have a better bedrock of local talent, but most teams in those leagues cannot afford to keep their best players, nor do they import talented African or Eastern European players.
I am pretty sure the three you mention pay more and can buy more established players. Thus you have more first choice NT players from both Brazil and Argentina in those leagues than in the their home leagues. Sure Brazil and Arg have a better bedrock of local talent, but most teams in those leagues cannot afford to keep their best players, nor do they import talented African or Eastern European players.[/QUOTE] It's not just all about the players. French league does not have anywhere close to the great clubs that Argentina has: Boca, River, Estudiantes, Independiente, Racing, Velez...teams of historical tradition.
Wow the quote function is screwed up. For the purposes of this thread I was trying to define where the best players can currently be found for a possible basis in comparing per capita production of quality players. IE where are the "best quality football players" playing. And more are probably found in the French league TODAY than in Argentine or Brazilian leagues because there is more money there. For the purposes of this thread, the historical greatness/tradition of the teams you mention is irrelevant.
So which Argentine players are there in France: L Lopez, Monzon and of course Pastore are the only first-rate ones. In Argentina there are Riquelme, Yacob, Martinez, Brana, Canteros, just to name five who are of similar level.
AGAIN that was one possible criteria for comparing production. Look at the other criteria I proposed. I will no longer respond to your posts arguing league strength. You want to argue league strength, start another thread. That is outside the topic of this thread and you are needlessly provoking a pissing contest. Pick whatever criteria you want and do the math. If one includes players in Argentina, one must also include players in Holland because of course a country's home league will have mostly local players. Either you exclude both leagues or include both leagues for the calculations. BACK TO THE TOPIC Going by the various criteria I proposed earlier, and without having done the math, I suspect Argentina would end up as producing most per capita for most (not all) of the criteria listed, with Holland and Uruguay alternating second place.
I am pretty sure the three you mention pay more and can buy more established players. Thus you have more first choice NT players from both Brazil and Argentina in those leagues than in the their home leagues. Sure Brazil and Arg have a better bedrock of local talent, but most teams in those leagues cannot afford to keep their best players, nor do they import talented African or Eastern European players.[/QUOTE] That is certainly not true in Brasil case with the team more and more dominated by home based players.This situation is rapidly going to change in argentina too if current economic trends continue.I see Claudio Yacob is being offered to River if we win promotion.it seems that the dirigentes are not balking at the idea of paying him and Cavenaghi well over 1 million a year.With the economic collapse in Europe only the elite few will soon be able to buy South Americas best where the likes of the Copa Libertadores will return to its former glory
That is certainly not true in Brasil case with the team more and more dominated by home based players.This situation is rapidly going to change in argentina too if current economic trends continue.I see Claudio Yacob is being offered to River if we win promotion.it seems that the dirigentes are not balking at the idea of paying him and Cavenaghi well over 1 million a year.With the economic collapse in Europe only the elite few will soon be able to buy South Americas best where the likes of the Copa Libertadores will return to its former glory[/QUOTE] Yacob is a great sign for River if it happens, I really feel he should be the starting DM for Argentina as well.
Nice thread!!! I think comparisons with just a nation's population may be a little misleading. A better metric would be: For a given amount of $$$ spent on a players development, which country produces the best quality players per capita. The debatable metric here is the definition of 'quality' and which league should take credit for the development of a player. For eg, was Ronaldo ( Brazilian) developed by Cruzeiro or PSV? In that category, my guess would be Uruguay, Croatia and probably Ivory Coast.
Brasil easily and is not even close, even though brasil has a large population they produce like ten times more quality players than the top countries and like 20 times more than most countries plus if you want to be a top player that's the place to be and the reputation alone will make u a millionaire.. if you are young and good some big club is paying millions for your services []__[]
Argentina has passed Brazil in the quantity of players exported, for a few years now. In 2010 it was something like 2200 Argentinian players to 1600 for Brazil.
Not at the moment though, as all of Messi, Aguero, Tevez, DiMaria, Higuain, Lavezzi, Riquelme and even Pastore are far better than any attacking Brazilian player other than Neymar, who's still probably behind most of them regardless.
so only attacking players are quality how about goalkeepers, fullbacks, center backs.. the quality coming out of brasil is superior to argentina.. neymar, lucas, alves, maicon, thiago silva, hulk, david luiz, damiao, pato, robinho, leiva, anderson, douglas costa, william i could keep going and name 100 and the quality doesnt drop even at 100 []__[]
You're probably just trolling, if you think Pato, Damiao, David Luiz, Anderson etc. are first-rate players. In fact, they are all quite mediocre, as many Brazilians will tell you.
The verdict is still out on Damiao and David Luiz, while Pato clearly isn't a first rate player. Nonetheless I believe Anderson is a first-rate player.
Anderson has yet to crack the definite starting eleven at ManU, despite being there for five years now. Others like Nani and Valencia have become more instrumental to the team. David Luiz is rubbish, though Damiao does have potential.
Pato is phenominal finisher and will without doubt be on the National Team, if he can only stay healthy. Damiao has been somewhat disapointing the last couple friendlies. David Luiz starts majority of the games as CB for the UEFA Champions. Anderson was ruined by Sir what's his name? YES, all of the above players are first rate. And Peurtorricaine don't forget Marcelo, Ramirez, Dede, Ganso, Kaka, Oscar amongst many many others. And to suggest that Neymar is behind some of these Argentenian players mentioned is increadible nonsense. But....that's a whole other discussion. There is no arguement, question or discussion as to which country produces the greatest players in quality and quantity (and I don't need to say Brasil), but the question on a Per Capita basis, the response would have to be Uruguay, Holland, Argentina.
Neymar has looked poor against both the Velez and Mexico NT right-backs recently, he is definitely not on par with Aguero or Tevez yet.