I'm not arguing with all that, i was just responding to your other post where you said the US won "convincingly"
But when those 1-0 wins give you two Euros and a World Cup, it ceases to be mere luck and becomes convincing.
Exactly... And in those 1-0 victories, the only team that probably had more clear cut goal occasions than Spain was Holland (Robben's 2 1v1 with Casillas) in the WC10. They dominated those games and had goal occasions even though they ended up only winning 1-0.
Most of them were convincing in the sense that they still had more goal occasions than the opponents and the opponents spent most of the time defending rather than trying attck. Then again you can't attack if you don't have the ball.
I think it's clearly group G USA, Portugal, Germany and Ghana. Australia drags down group B they are very poor right now. Group B have is weighed down by Costa Rica and England.
Colombia, Japan, Cote d'Ivoire and Greece is the only group where all 4 teams have the talent to top the group. That's going to be the most open and competitive group and my pick for the group of death.
When did I say that? quote me! NO, it was Spain NT style of tickitaka made them CHASING their tails. It was NOT the opponents fault, as SPain NT enjoyed possession but NOT so effecient in attack that'ss all ... For example, compared to Brazil 82, they also enjoyed possession of the balls (much more than opponents like SPain NT) BUT they scored 3 to 4 goals in winning games ... not like SPain with a whole series of 1-0 ... and by some "unexpected' source ... (hence UNCONVINCINGLY)
And Brasil 82 did not win the WC. The tiki taka proved to be efffective both in Barcelona and the Spanish NT. They won multiple CL, a WC and two Euros. It is impossible to deny their merits when they clearly dominated football for some time and won the most important competitions at both club and national levels.
Post #47, 2nd page of this thread. Well the fact that Spain IMPOSED their style on others is why they won those games convincingly. The downside they had however with tikitaka is that it forced their opponents to also park the bus very low in their penalty surface. The question is not how many goal occasions they had, but if they had more than their opponents and they definitely did in most of those 1-0 games, hence them winning those games convincingly because the other teams just couldn't play.
Against Switzerland despite achieving over 60 % of posession, they still got beaten by them. Their tikitaka resulted useless. Against Chile, what allowed them achieve a higher posession was not their tikitaka, but having one more man than their opponents is what made the trick (Chile in that match despite being one man down for most part of the game had even more shots on goal than Spain, and before being one man down, had Spain almost on its knees). Against Portugal, only through a play over a doubtful position of one of Spains players allowed them get the one goal lead. Against Paraguay, whom always played defensively (Spains tikitaka, had nothing to do over this issue), and due to to a referee that didn't have the guts to have Paraguay's penalty kick repeated over again as the rule book commands, as in all of the pk's of that game, the spanish players invaded the penalty zone (at least he had Spain's first pk attempt repeated, over the same issue), is that Spain imposed itself. Against Germany, could have gone either way, as Spain's superior posession was only about 52 % to 48 %. Against Netherlands, extra time was needed, and maybe the fact of having one more man at the time that the late winning goal came, to impose themselves there. For facts, last WC, the only game that Spain won absolutely convincingly, imposing its style, was their game against Honduras. All others came over other diferent issues, being luck one of them, and by no way, of them imposing their style over their opponents.
Yeah Barca lost 7-0 in 3 consecutive games vs Bayern Spain lost 3-1 to US in 2009 confed, and then 4-0 to Argentina, 4-1 to Portugal 2010, and then 3-0 to Brazil in 2011 Very effective eh?
According to the Ranking FIFA: Group G = Germany + Portugal + USA + Ghana = 2 + 5 + 14 + 24 = 45 Group D = Uruguay + Italy + England + Costa Rica = 6 + 7 + 13 + 32 = 58 Group B = Spain + Holland + Chile + Australia = 1 + 9 + 15 + 56 = 81 According to the WC Story: Group D = 7 wins + 15 times at the Top 4 Uruguay: 1930, 1950, 1954, 1970, 2010 Italy: 1934, 1938, 1970, 1978, 1982, 1990, 1994, 2006 England: 1966, 1990 Group G = 3 wins + 14 times at the Top 4 Germany: 1934, 1954, 1958, 1966, 1970, 1974, 1982, 1986, 1990, 2002, 2006, 2010 Portugal: 1966, 2006 Group B = 1 win + 7 times at the Top 4 Spain: 1950, 2010 Holland: 1974, 1978, 1998, 2010 Chile: 1962
According to the Ranking FIFA: Group G = Germany +Portugal + USA + Ghana = 2 + 5 + 14 + 24 = 45 Group D = Uruguay + Italy + England + Costa Rica = 6 + 7 + 13 + 32 = 58 Group B = Spain + Holland + Chile + Australia = 1 + 9 + 15 + 56 = 81 According to the WC Story: Group D = 7 wins + 15 times at the Top 4 Uruguay: 1930, 1950, 1954, 1970, 2010 Italy: 1934, 1938, 1970, 1978, 1982, 1990, 1994, 2006 England: 1966, 1990 Group G = 3 wins + 15 times at the Top 4 Germany: 1934, 1954, 1958, 1966, 1970, 1974, 1982, 1986, 1990, 2002, 2006, 2010 Portugal: 1966, 2006 USA: 1930 Group B = 1 win + 7 times at the Top 4 Spain: 1950, 2010 Holland: 1974, 1978, 1998, 2010 Chile 1962
That was in the era of "decay" of Barça, i.e., last year. I was obviously talking about the period from 2008 to 2012. Really, this is common knowledge. How can you ignore the fact that they won 2 CL, 4 Spanish titles, a WC, and 2 Euros? Sometimes, it really is frustrating to argue about football, since people can be so biased in their views.
Portugal, Paraguay and Germany were barely able to come out of their own half until Spain scored which at that moment they had no other choice than to come out and try to score. Holland despite being dominated, had the better goal occasions (2x by Robben). As for Chile, they were playing very well and were going toe to toe with Spain, but stop exagerrating things by saying they had Spain on their knees cause it's just not true. But why are you only commenting on the games of the WC10??? My initial comment was talking about the Spanish run since they started winning in 2008
I got to say that the group USA is in has to be tough but I would not want to be in the same group as Spain. At least we dont have to play Brazil in the group stage because they will win it all
Did I just read this correctly? winning 3 major tournaments in a row, not effective, losing friendlies is more telling? Barca not effective because of their H2H with a ultra talented Bayern? I don't think anything can get less rational then this argument.
Against Portugal, the spaniard goal came after 2/3 at the 63 minutes of the game, while against Paraguay, Spain scored in the last 7 minutes, and against Germany, Spain scored in the last 15 minutes. Domination is not the same thing as posession. Spain's virtue, is achieving high percentages of posession, while those teams who practice a more defensive style, most of the times, achieve a low percentage of posession (which is not the same thing as to say that they were dominated). About the expression "to have them on their knees" is not something literal (I just can't imagine anyone playing football at all times kneeling down, ). It is a figurative expression, where in the case of our match against Spain, in the first 35 minutes of the match (before our sent-off player), Spain couldn`t practice their typical "tikitaka" or posession style, and till that moment posession of the ball went almost 50/50, with us reaching their goal zone more often than them, where most of our shots on goal happened in this part of the match. (In any case, it's not an excuse. They had a lots better team than ours, and at the end, if we wouldn't have been one man down most part of the match, most probable that they would've won anyway).
Portugal is not always in the group of death. Yes theyve had 3 tough groups the last 3 tournaments, but that's it. Stemming back from euro 2000 Portugal have been in the easier groups. Euro 2000 the exception although Egland and Germany were pathetic back then and both crashed out in the group. And how is group G CLEARLY as you put it?? England, Italy and Uruguay are 3 big nations. Same for Chile, Holland and Spain. Group G is certainly tough, but so are the others. Clearly youre being a homer.
I think Chile will be top in that group, with Spain/Netherlands fighting for second spot. They have a group of players peaking at just the right moment. Also, I mainly just like to hold on to hope that Mexico won't have to face either of those in the Round of 16.
If we're going by this, then i maintain that Spain will easily win the group since they have so many players that are very good form. They even have players in good form that won't even make the team, that's just how deep their squad is. However, as i said the day the draws were made, i see Chile beating Holland for the 2nd spot. The present Dutch squad despite winning all their qualification games is nowhere as good as the 2010 dutch team imo.
But that was my point exactly, that until Spain scored, those teams were barely able to come out of their own half of the field and were "forced" to sit back and defend. The thing here is that most of those teams were not defensive minded teams, but teams who eventually found themselves defending much more than they had hoped to.