Where does Magico Gonzalez rank in the worlds best?

Of_Wires_And_Birds · Jan 22, 2012

AguiluchoMerengue said: ↑

great contribution to the thread broda.
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No problem.

burco · Jan 22, 2012

AguiluchoMerengue said: ↑

In terms of achievements he may not be a top ten, in terms of skills yeah.

I just dont see how you would talk about great players and not mention Magico...

Assuming that because of his "record" he was not better than Platini, I still argue that he should be top10 or top15 at least simply because lazy players like Beckam only worked on their free kicks with their right foot, lazy players like Fat Ronaldo or Messi never worked on free kicks, lazy players like Zidane never worked on their speed, George Best never won anything for a mediocre team like Northern Ireland

Zico didnt play for Real Madrid or Barcelona either.
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So by that logic............. Pele, Eusebio, Beckenbauer and Garrincha etc. are much inferior to Magico too.

elvasco · Jan 22, 2012

AguiluchoMerengue said: ↑

speakin of that, here is my new top10 of all time.

1. Chicharrito
2. Chesperito
3. Chicharrote
4. Hugo Sanchez
5. David Beckam
6. Van Persie
7. Cuatemoc Blanco
8. Freddy Adu
9. Rooney
10. Charrito

Source: London Fashion Magazine aka FIFA
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That would actually be funny if someone else posted it, when you come across telling us that Jorge Gonzalez is a top ten player of all time and then try to make fun of others by posting that list makes you come across as a hypocrite.

Again if he was so good why a big club never signed him, great players play for top clubs not for cadiz.

schwuppe · Jan 22, 2012

AguiluchoMerengue said: ↑

so? how well did Zico do in Spain?

Jorge is among the best players to ever come to La Liga, in fact his goal againts Barcelona is one of the top goals in the history of the league.
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so? how well did Gonzalez do in Brazil?

Adrian559 · Jan 22, 2012

AguiluchoMerengue said: ↑

thats gone be ur homework, google should be your best friend
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i did it came back with "who"

AguiluchoMerengue · Jan 22, 2012

schwuppe said: ↑

so? how well did Gonzalez do in Brazil?
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if he went there, prob the same thing that happened to him in spain, he would have scored spectacular goals and brazilian defenders would have tackled the zhit out of him like most defenders that played againts him did.

instead of maradonas, he would have been in Peles top10.

lucas barton · Jan 23, 2012

So is Magico before or after cocaine in Maradona's top 10??

RichardL · Jan 23, 2012

AguiluchoMerengue said: ↑

In terms of achievements he may not be a top ten, in terms of skills yeah.

I just dont see how you would talk about great players and not mention Magico...

Assuming that because of his "record" he was not better than Platini, I still argue that he should be top10 or top15 at least simply because lazy players like Beckam only worked on their free kicks with their right foot, lazy players like Fat Ronaldo or Messi never worked on free kicks, lazy players like Zidane never worked on their speed, George Best never won anything for a mediocre team like Northern Ireland

Zico didnt play for Real Madrid or Barcelona either.
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You can have all the talent in the world, but if you can't apply yourself, you aren't a great player.

AguiluchoMerengue said: ↑

Fat Ronaldo was great but he didnt do free kicks, I rank Samuel Eto higher than Messi, also Ronaldinho and no Im not joking.
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No, but it does highlight how deluded you are.

Like I say you can look at David Beckams record and you will be like "wow what a great player" and reality is, David Beckam does great free kicks and great corners, very limited player, not as dominant as players like Jorge or Zidane.
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Nobody is claiming Beckham is a great player.

And what exactly did Gonzalez dominate, apart from perhaps the Cadiz drugs & hookers scene?

Zidane vs Jorge? Jorge had speed...
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had or took?

AguiluchoMerengue · Jan 24, 2012

Of course Mexicans would jack the thread withough contributing anything... sorry that Maradona didnt include any Mexican in his top10, cry all you want, reality is reality.

Is so easy to go to Spain and score spectacular goals, tell that to English players, I have never seen an English player in my life time going to Spain and scoring the type of goals Jorge did, in fact very few players in the world have gone to Spain and get "Panuelos Blancos" in El Bernabeu and Camp Nou specially when you are playing againts them...

According to Cadiz historians, Jorge went to Barcelona and Madrid and got Madrid and Barcelona fans standing, cheering for him, something very few players in the world can brag about, Ronaldinho and Maradona for example.

Of course Englishn fans wouldnt know about this type of things, their players are never good enought to play in Spain.

Adrian559 · Jan 24, 2012

AguiluchoMerengue said: ↑

Of course Mexicans would jack the thread withough contributing anything... sorry that Maradona didnt include any Mexican in his top10, cry all you want, reality is reality.

Is so easy to go to Spain and score spectacular goals, tell that to English players, I have never seen an English player in my life time going to Spain and scoring the type of goals Jorge did, in fact very few players in the world have gone to Spain and get "Panuelos Blancos" in El Bernabeu and Camp Nou specially when you are playing againts them...

According to Cadiz historians, Jorge went to Barcelona and Madrid and got Madrid and Barcelona fans standing, cheering for him, something very few players in the world can brag about, Ronaldinho and Maradona for example.

Of course Englishn fans wouldnt know about this type of things, their players are never good enought to play in Spain.
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its English and why would they move to la liga when the premier league is the best and also the $$$ and everybody has contributed in this thread explaining to you that this guy had skills but wasted it them could of been great but he didnt he stay in Cadiz never won or moved to a bigger club, and if he was so great he would of of moved never won anything and scored 90 goals in spain its pretty good but not great.... yeah how many did hugo score 234

RichardL · Jan 24, 2012

AguiluchoMerengue said: ↑

Of course Englishn fans wouldnt know about this type of things, their players are never good enought to play in Spain.
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Gary Lineker went to Barcelona in the 80s, scoring 42 goals in 103 games. (86-89).

Scottish striker Steve Archibald, a good but not a great player by English league standards of the day, also played for Barcelona, scoring 24 goals in 55 games.

La Liga wasn't a strong league like it is now in the 80s. It wasn't weak, but it was probably viewed in the way that the Bundesliga is now. Good, but not up with the best.

RichardL · Jan 24, 2012

Adrian559 said: ↑

its English and why would they move to la liga when the premier league is the best and also the $$$ and everybody has contributed in this thread explaining to you that this guy had skills but wasted it them could of been great but he didnt he stay in Cadiz never won or moved to a bigger club, and if he was so great he would of of moved never won anything and scored 90 goals in spain its pretty good but not great.... yeah how many did hugo score 234
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He didn't score 90 goals in Spain. He hit 59 in 9 years.

Gregoriak · Jan 24, 2012

There might be a parallel universe where "Magico Gonzales" and perhaps Ali Karimi are in a close battle of the number one all-time Greatest football player, but in this universe, both are irrelevant in such discussions.

AguiluchoMerengue · Jan 24, 2012

RichardL said: ↑

Gary Lineker went to Barcelona in the 80s, scoring 42 goals in 103 games. (86-89).

Scottish striker Steve Archibald, a good but not a great player by English league standards of the day, also played for Barcelona, scoring 24 goals in 55 games.

La Liga wasn't a strong league like it is now in the 80s. It wasn't weak, but it was probably viewed in the way that the Bundesliga is now. Good, but not up with the best.
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in the 80s... and its only 2 players...

comme · Jan 24, 2012

AguiluchoMerengue said: ↑

in the 80s... and its only 2 players...
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When did Magico play there?

Also if you want English players, how about Lawrie Cunningham. He played for Real Madrid, rather than Cadiz though.

RichardL · Jan 24, 2012

Gregoriak said: ↑

There might be a parallel universe where "Magico Gonzales" and perhaps Ali Karimi are in a close battle of the number one all-time Greatest football player, but in this universe, both are irrelevant in such discussions.
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I'm just hoping SectionX will come along and argue that Ibrahimovic is better, and set up a Ibrahimovic v "Magico" thread.

I think I'd pay to see that.

Adrian559 · Jan 24, 2012

RichardL said: ↑

He didn't score 90 goals in Spain. He hit 59 in 9 years.
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thanks for the correction

Adrian559 · Jan 24, 2012

RichardL said: ↑

I'm just hoping SectionX will come along and argue that Ibrahimovic is better, and set up a Ibrahimovic v "Magico" thread.

I think I'd pay to see that.
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lol x2

Manolo · Jan 24, 2012

I've come to realize these "Greatest Players of All-Time" analyses are pretty much doomed for a number of reasons, for instance:

1. There is an inherent bias towards players from big countries, due to the size of their market and the reach of their media.

2. There is a bias towards players who played on big clubs, because they tend to play alongside better players and hence win more trophies.

3. There is a bias towards contemporary players, for obvious reasons, but also towards players from previous eras, because of pre-existing notions of how great they were. Both biases are inherently flawed.

4. There is a great difficulty in comparing the relative importance of forwards v. midfielders v. defenders v. goalkeepers in any of these analyses.

5. Unlike American sports, soccer is global in nature and there is no unified league where the greatest players are playing against each other frequently.

Don't get me wrong - it's fun to debate these things, but you have to keep an open mind about the whole concept to begin with. There are a number of players such as "Magico" Gonzalez who were brilliant, but never gained world-renown because they played for smaller clubs and/or countries. In Latin America, it is a well-known complaint that many great players go unnoticed by big European teams because they are from smaller countries, whereas many mediocre Argentinians and Brazilians are scattered throughout the world. We can never know what would have happened had a Carlos Valderrama been scouted by Real Madrid as a young player...

PuckVanHeel · Jan 24, 2012

Manolo said: ↑

I've come to realize these "Greatest Players of All-Time" analyses are pretty much doomed for a number of reasons, for instance:

1. There is an inherent bias towards players from big countries, due to the size of their market and the reach of their media.

2. There is a bias towards players who played on big clubs, because they tend to play alongside better players and hence win more trophies.

3. There is a bias towards contemporary players, for obvious reasons, but also towards players from previous eras, because of pre-existing notions of how great they were. Both biases are inherently flawed.

4. There is a great difficulty in comparing the relative importance of forwards v. midfielders v. defenders v. goalkeepers in any of these analyses.

5. Unlike American sports, soccer is global in nature and there is no unified league where the greatest players are playing against each other frequently.

Don't get me wrong - it's fun to debate these things, but you have to keep an open mind about the whole concept to begin with. There are a number of players such as "Magico" Gonzalez who were brilliant, but never gained world-renown because they played for smaller clubs and/or countries. In Latin America, it is a well-known complaint that many great players go unnoticed by big European teams because they are from smaller countries, whereas many mediocre Argentinians and Brazilians are scattered throughout the world. We can never know what would have happened had a Carlos Valderrama been scouted by Real Madrid as a young player...
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Good post, that is basically what I said in other reactions in this thread.

That he settled as first (and perhaps only) Salvadorian in an European country speaks for him.
Others point towards the difficulties of English stars to settle themselves and that is a very good point.

Misterioso · Jan 24, 2012

AguiluchoMerengue said: ↑

I have seen videos of Johan Cruyf on youtube so you are not gone bs me on that one, assuming that what most people say is right. I could go like these.

1. Pele
2. Maradona
3. Beckenbauer (videos?)
4. Di Stefano (videos?)
5. Eusebio (videos?)
6. Magico Gonzalez (fly to Argentina and question Maradona about it)
7. Johan Cruyf
8. Zidane
9. Big Brazilian Brawl here between Romario, Ronaldo and Ronaldinho
10. George Best?

Eto is another one of the greats that is so underrated but his free kick is not good, he was also not as creative or a great passer but yes super fast and a great finisher.

I wonder how good was George Weah, another one that crosses my mind is Muller or some German striker that was supposed to be that good, now with youtube we can eliminate those "myths" of how good players trully were.

If we wouldnt have youtube; David Beckam, Wayne Rooney and Van Persie would have been the greatest players of all time thanks to fifa ranks
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schwuppe · Jan 24, 2012

Manolo said: ↑

I've come to realize these "Greatest Players of All-Time" analyses are pretty much doomed for a number of reasons, for instance:

1. There is an inherent bias towards players from big countries, due to the size of their market and the reach of their media.
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Yes and it makes sense, because looking great playing in a lesser league is MUCH easier and therfore useless to make a proper comparison.

And if you're talking about national teams here: George Best

Manolo said: ↑

2. There is a bias towards players who played on big clubs, because they tend to play alongside better players and hence win more trophies.
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Noones expecting Cadiz to win La Liga or the European Cup.

For this reason I'd like to refer to the 'La Liga Ratings' thread my msioux.
Players from small clubs are well represented at the top, yet Magico is nowhere to find. Quite patethic for a 'Top 10 alltime' player that he seemingly isn't even Top 50 in the 5th best league in Europe during his time.

Manolo said: ↑

3. There is a bias towards contemporary players, for obvious reasons, but also towards players from previous eras, because of pre-existing notions of how great they were. Both biases are inherently flawed.

4. There is a great difficulty in comparing the relative importance of forwards v. midfielders v. defenders v. goalkeepers in any of these analyses.

5. Unlike American sports, soccer is global in nature and there is no unified league where the greatest players are playing against each other frequently.
Click to expand...

Very true, but not relevant in Magico's case.

Manolo said: ↑

Don't get me wrong - it's fun to debate these things, but you have to keep an open mind about the whole concept to begin with. There are a number of players such as "Magico" Gonzalez who were brilliant, but never gained world-renown because they played for smaller clubs and/or countries. In Latin America, it is a well-known complaint that many great players go unnoticed by big European teams because they are from smaller countries, whereas many mediocre Argentinians and Brazilians are scattered throughout the world. We can never know what would have happened had a Carlos Valderrama been scouted by Real Madrid as a young player...
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My stance still is that OP's opinion is insane, but what's bothering me the most is that he is using some of the dumbest and most illogical argument I have ever had to read on the internet. All the flack and mockery he's recieving in this thread is more than deserved.

Jaweirdo · Jan 24, 2012

I'm pretty sure the OP knows that Magico is no where near Top 10 and is just enjoying all the attention hes getting, interjecting with absurd comments to keep the thread going.

Anywho to shut him up, if hes so obsessed with words that come out of Maradona's mouth he should stop bashing Messi as Maradona has called him "his successor".

Dominican Lou · Jan 24, 2012

schwuppe said: ↑

For this reason I'd like to refer to the 'La Liga Ratings' thread my msioux.
Players from small clubs are well represented at the top, yet Magico is nowhere to find. Quite patethic for a 'Top 10 alltime' player that he seemingly isn't even Top 50 in the 5th best league in Europe during his time.

.
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Wait, what?

Spain was the 5th best league in Europe during the 80s? Italy was no doubt the top one but which were the other 4?

An English league with very few foreigners? The German league?

TS is an idiot but let's not get carried away either. By the 80s, the Spanish league was already importing top talent and was at least the 3rd and probably 2nd best after Italy.

AguiluchoMerengue · Jan 25, 2012

Manolo said: ↑

I've come to realize these "Greatest Players of All-Time" analyses are pretty much doomed for a number of reasons, for instance:

1. There is an inherent bias towards players from big countries, due to the size of their market and the reach of their media.

2. There is a bias towards players who played on big clubs, because they tend to play alongside better players and hence win more trophies.

3. There is a bias towards contemporary players, for obvious reasons, but also towards players from previous eras, because of pre-existing notions of how great they were. Both biases are inherently flawed.

4. There is a great difficulty in comparing the relative importance of forwards v. midfielders v. defenders v. goalkeepers in any of these analyses.

5. Unlike American sports, soccer is global in nature and there is no unified league where the greatest players are playing against each other frequently.

Don't get me wrong - it's fun to debate these things, but you have to keep an open mind about the whole concept to begin with. There are a number of players such as "Magico" Gonzalez who were brilliant, but never gained world-renown because they played for smaller clubs and/or countries. In Latin America, it is a well-known complaint that many great players go unnoticed by big European teams because they are from smaller countries, whereas many mediocre Argentinians and Brazilians are scattered throughout the world. We can never know what would have happened had a Carlos Valderrama been scouted by Real Madrid as a young player...
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Pele never played for Madrid or Barcelona, how can they guarantee he wasnts gone fail?

Cruyff never won a world cup, did Platini win a world cup?

What did George Best ever do for his native country?

Zico are you kidding me? he went to Japan.

I dont know much about Eusebio or any of the others mentioned before, like I said, numbers can say many things, David Beckam has better numbers than anybody else, you watch a video of Beckam and a video of Magico, is not even funny the difference between the 2, Jorge would run circles around Beckam, but Jorge didnt marry an English spice girl or modeled for Armani.

To me Eto and Weah were much more dominant players than Messi, and yes didnt win the Ballon D'Oro, great job fifa.

Valderrama is a great friend of Magico Gonzalez, I mean people thought Colombia was good enought to win the world cup I always asked that to myself, how effing good Valderrama was?

but not he wasnt German or Italian, therefore he must be zhit.

I keep hearing of this great EPL players, why isnst Madrid or Barcelona breaking the Bank for them? They did it for Cristiano didnt they?

Reality is, most English players cannot compete at that level, they may be descent but would never come close to what the Ronaldinhos and Magicos did in Spain.

Maradona may be an idiot for jumping into politics, he may not be a great tactician, but come on, they want to tell me Maradona doesnt know how good a player was/can be? GTFOH.

I have seen pictures of the 3 together, mutual respect from Maradona, Magico and Valderrama.

There have been a few other Salvadorans in Europe, Rodriguez when to Germany, Saprissa was actually very good in Spain.

Is not easy for any Latin American to adapt himself in Europe, but a lot of our players succed because of the tremendous techniqe, something the English players dont know much about, they dont have faith in their ping pong dumb game.