WHEN WILL MLS ADMIT CHIVAS USA IS A FAILED EXPERMENT.

Discussion in 'MLS: Commissioner - You be The Don' started by DANNO49, Dec 27, 2012.

  1. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I think that your example is pretty perfect imo. I mean, Americans have watched the top leagues in the world for decades now in all of the other major sports (NBA, MLB, NHL, NFL), so they just seem to assume that the MLS will be like those other leagues. Also, good point as to how that may translate into resistance to relegation.

    At least for me though, one problem that I have with the CUSA-CD Guad link is that there is suddenly a team now that doesn't have the same goal as the other teams in the league (as in, win Championships). The other problem speaks to the independence/perception of the league. I don't want people to look at MLS for the first time and go 'Oh, they're pretty bad. They have a team that's a farm team for a Liga MX team.' Friendlies and the like with Liga MX indicate competitiveness and mutual respect. Farm teams indicate disrespect and being tied to another league with an umbilical cord. (Apologies for the graphic image. Couldn't think of something else that was better at conveying my thoughts yet also less graphic). I've posted about that stuff before I'm pretty sure, so maybe I should go study for my midterms tomorrow...:D
     
  2. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes. Reading through this thread and the multitude of zOMG Chivas!!!! threads out there and the predominant view is that LA2 franchise is unsalvageable and that the only viable solution(s) is to throw the LA2 franchise on the funeral pyre and either (A) move it to <insert city here> or (B) contract the franchise. Of course, the really funny ones are the people that are jonesing for the rebrand to the LA Aztecs.. A brand that no one gave a crap a out when it existed and would probably still not give a crap about..
     
  3. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ah, coolio. Do you like the idea of a re-brand or a new owner better? Actually, I don't know what the heck 'contract the franchise' means, so could you explain that to me?

    As of right now, I'd rank my stuff like this:
    (in order of preference)
    1. Move it to Orlando (they'd take on the Orlando name and logo and stuff)
    2. New brand strategy (blue collar vs. LAG)
    3. New ownership
    4. Not sure what the contracting stuff is...
     
  4. scott47a

    scott47a Member+

    Seattle Sounders FC; Arsenal FC
    Feb 6, 2007
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sorry if I came across harsh.
    A couple thoughts:

    - One, this thread as a whole is ridiculous. Chivas USA is not a "failed experiment" it's just a poorly run soccer club.
    - Two, despite what some people in this thread are telling you, the club is not doing anything that violates any employment laws and you should never, ever expect a lawsuit to be filed against them or the league.
    - Three, there are many, many people in America who are very, very confused about "race," and "ethnicity," and "nationality" and unfortunately a bunch of them have decided to go off about Chivas USA. I could go on about this misunderstanding for quite a while, but I'll spare you.
    - Four, there are dozens of threads on BigSoccer calling for name changes, moves, ownership changes, etc., for Chivas USA, and have been for years. I will pass on trying to ascribe a motive on why soccer forum nerds feel so passionately about this issue, but I have a few ideas.

    Again, you seem like a nice guy. I'd just say "don't believe the hype." Chivas does have an attendance problem, but the league bore with such things in many places in the past, and there have been many threads where people speculated on when and where teams should be moved, contracted, etc. (Kansas City comes to mind as a frequent target, and Dallas). Chivas USA will be fine, especially if they start winning.
     
    *rey* repped this.
  5. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's a rather naive claim to make, given the American legal system. Maybe if you added 'successful' before lawsuit. ;)
     
    scott47a repped this.
  6. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Words.
     
  7. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What makes you think Vergara will become a competent owner if only his team were in Orlando and the team were called Orlando City SC?
     
  8. scott47a

    scott47a Member+

    Seattle Sounders FC; Arsenal FC
    Feb 6, 2007
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Point well-taken.
    Still, I'd bet a six pack on it never happening at all.
     
    Jasonma repped this.
  9. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Humidity?
     
  10. Macsen

    Macsen Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 5, 2007
    Orlando
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Who said Vergara would be involved?
     
  11. Inca Roads

    Inca Roads Member+

    Nov 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    And I thought OCSC already had an MLS-viable owner... the only thing lacking for them is that they don't have a stadium plan yet, and they also are not located in Queens.
     
  12. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    New ownership group was #3 on his list. :)
     
  13. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So... MLS team #21. :)
     
  14. LordRobin

    LordRobin Member+

    Sep 1, 2006
    Akron, OH
    Club:
    Cleveland C. S.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And yet, it's gotta be said: they've got 4 points in 3 games. I'm fully of the opinion that this year's version of Chivas USA should be one of the greatest train wrecks of all time, but so far it's not going according to the script.

    ------RM
     
  15. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    For me, that makes it worse. Chivas USA is set up to be a feeder club to a team that, by policy, will not allow it's players to attend USMNT callups.
     
  16. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    An unenforceable policy under FIFA rules, but whatever.
     
  17. scott47a

    scott47a Member+

    Seattle Sounders FC; Arsenal FC
    Feb 6, 2007
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't understand this "feeder club" comment - at what point have the best CUSA players ever gone on to star for CD Guadalajara?
    And if the best part of the CUSA roster is Americans, how could they ever go to play for a team that doesn't want them on the roster?
     
  18. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    It hasn't so far. But that's Vergara's intention.
     
  19. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It'll be interesting to see how that works out. MLS owns the contracts to the players, so they aren't going to let them walk away for free if they are still under contract. Once they are out of contract, they are free to sign with any club. If they are good enough to go to Liga MX to play for CDG, then it is conceivable that some would go to other Liga MX clubs. Or is this where Liga MX's collusion cartel kicks in and that player would find themselves blacklisted in Mexico?
     
  20. scott47a

    scott47a Member+

    Seattle Sounders FC; Arsenal FC
    Feb 6, 2007
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The only CUSA player I know that has "moved up" to Liga MX based on exceeding in LA is Jonathon Bornstein. Am I missing someone?
     
  21. danKohner

    danKohner Member

    Jun 11, 2009
    Section 139
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    WTF! If you want MLS to be our league (United States/Canada) you do not bring a team into the league and associate them with a Mexican team. MLS is not the Mexican league and never will be.
     
  22. Arsenalkid700

    Arsenalkid700 Member

    Aug 9, 2011
    New York City
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Um, what do you think the "M" in MLS stands for? Obviously not some weird-ass word like "Major".

    Viva Mexican League Soccer!!!!
     
  23. scott47a

    scott47a Member+

    Seattle Sounders FC; Arsenal FC
    Feb 6, 2007
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Where are you on the threads that say "Canada should get it's own damned league"?
     
  24. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    True now, but in when Chivas was announced? I'm not sure that was true.
     
  25. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, you're right. Chivas has 4 points in 3 games so far. As such, their goal has clearly shifted from what their management has stated (which is to be a farm club for CD-Guadalajara) into a team whose sole purpose is to compete for championships. You're so right.
     

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