WHEN WILL MLS ADMIT CHIVAS USA IS A FAILED EXPERMENT.

The fans of Mexican soccer in SoCal are not flocking to see team that is lousy. Why? because they can drive 90 minutes and see great Mexican soccer in Tijuana. It is time for Chivas USA to sell the franchise to someome who really wants to have a MLS team New York, Orlando, St. Louis or Las Vegas. The fans of CD Guadalajara are not fooled by this poor imatation

I assume, based on few actual facts, that if this current Chelis incarnation bombs badly as well, then CUSA might be in for a significant and relevant overhaul. So, if you'll be patient and if your boys do their part and beat the little goats down every time you face them, perhaps that might be a good sign.

Did Chivas have a poor year this year? Yes. They missed the playoffs for the third year in a row, and as a result had their lowest attendance ever.

For the four years before that, they were successful on the field, made the playoffs every year, and their attendances were average to great.

What part of this says "systemic failure" to you more than, say, the Kansas City Wiz (who were bottom of the league in attendance seven times before moving out of Arrowhead and into an undersized stadium) or San Jose from 2008-2011 (who had lower attendances and almost as wretched performances on the field as Chivas) or the Red Bulls (who had lower attendances than Chivas in 3 of the 4 years they played in the league together before Red Bull Arena opened, and finished lower in the table in every one of those four years)?

Why are those other teams just teams with problems they can deal with--with a new stadium (which CUSA is reportedly working on), a refresh of the brand, or just a resurgence after a few down years, like the Quakes? Why do they have to leave town, when Kansas City and the new Quakes and the Red Bulls didn't?

And can someone explain to me why MLS fans have such short memories? Next time the Galaxy miss the playoffs three times in a row (as they did from 2006 to 2008), and their attendance dips, are they going to be a "failed experiment" too?

When will BigSoccer finally admit that DANNO49 is a failure?

The main question is if they perform excellently and have a stadium of their own... will they become a significant local brand? Those are the two biggest issues they seem to have right now in terms of gathering a significant following. Unfortunately, the question of a stadium (which has seriously turned around a few franchises--mine certainly) is a hard one to answer without, you know, building a stadium.

Why ? See the 4 words before you asked the question.

.... and the reason before this year when Tijuana was relevant ?

Which has no bearing on anything. The CDG fans weren't ever the point.

When will the world admit that this was a typical Mr. Warmth comeback and nothing less?

Bravo!

So they're not a failure and a mess of a club? It would be wise for CUSA to get their own stadium and not live/work in the shadow of the Galaxy. The name is very 2nd rate and implies 2nd team. The gimmick to get Mex-Americans to the games hasn't worked.

A mess ? Sure, and nobody has said otherwise.

How though are you measuring "failure" ?

It would be wise for CUSA to do many things, but that doesn't mean they can just up and do them. It's really easy to post on a forum "just get a stadium" ... yet doing so isn't that easy. Just ask DCU/NE in that regard. In multiple team markets there will always be the "other" team(s). That's unavoidable. You absolutely can't get around that. The Jets and Mets have been successful in their own rights and have won their respective championships. They'll always be the "other" teams in NY though. The White Sox have been more successful than the Cubs, but Chicago is all about the lovable losers. These types of dynamics evolve organically. CUSA, or whatever "other" team in LA was always going to be the "other" team in regards to the Galaxy.

Also, CUSA isn't the only team that has tried to be the/a club to capture the Mex-American audience. The entire league is swinging and missing on that one.

Were your Crew "a failure and a mess of a club" from 2005 through 2007, when they finished last or second-to-last in their division for three years straight? Should we have moved the Crew to St. Louis or Orlando in 2007?

MLS fans have bizarrely short memories. We're talking about the same team that was two points from the Supporters' Shield in 2007, and made the playoffs for four straight years, right? Brad Guzan and Sasha Kljestan's team?

Yes, they've had three terrible seasons in a row. Show me an MLS team that hasn't at one point or another. Should we have moved the 2008 Galaxy?

Which they've reportedly been working on. Several other clubs have stadium issues, and Chivas' temporary situation is a lot more tenable than DC's is, for instance.

I'm not a Chivas fan, but I've never understood the hate they get. Nobody ever seems to suggest moving or rebranding Toronto, a much more dysfunctional and less successful team (and for the record, I'm not suggesting it either).

They're marketing to something that isn't there. They're a bit of an embarrassment, it's not just a few seasons. They've won nothing either. To me it's not comparable to other teams and having just a down season.

To make the playoffs when they did isn't that impressive considering there were fewer teams.

So, just behind NY then?

I'm not saying I love their marketing, and I'm not saying they're doing it well--I'm not local, so I don't know. But from everything I've heard they're marketing to Latino fans in southern California. I'm pretty sure there are a few Spanish speakers in the greater LA area.

Were you as embarrassed when they were winning? Otherwise, yes, it's just a few seasons.

They've been around for eight years. Columbus didn't win its first Supporters Shield until its ninth year, or its first Cup until its first thirteen. And as you point out, back then there were fewer teams in the league.

No; it's comparable to other teams having a few bad seasons in a row. You know, like the Galaxy did a few years back. Like pretty much every team in the league has from time to time.

Well, then, the Crew must have been even more of a mess to miss three playoff berths in a row for three of those same years. What makes you think Chivas aren't going through the same kind of rough patch right now?

Rather tepid in my experience.

Tepid...typical...same thing.

I've heard that Houston isn't doing to badly though, is that true?

Chivas would be more likely to succeed in San Diego. They will need a complete rebranding to work in LA.

If if lived in LA id prob go to Chivas over the Galaxy, Im not latino or anything but i think they are more like a normal football club despite being a Francise. LA Blues might be ok too.

La Blues is really cheap! For obvious reasons. Ill be a Timbers reserves/u23 fan. Cant see myself getting a first team season ticket anytime soon.

I think CUSA's problems are far more structural than the problems any other teams have or have had. You can look at Toronto and say, "Hey, they have problems too!" but you know they're trying. I'm not sure CUSA is.

"Reportedly" they're looking for a new stadium. The HDC is crushing them and every year it becomes less and less theirs. Seriously, the CUSA gear gets pushed further and further back in the Team LA store. CUSA supporters themselves have offered up several solutions that have been shot down.

And the "Honda Superclisco" is dead. It was sort of forced on people anyway. It isn't that it hasn't been competitive lately, it's more that now that one specific element of CUSA supporters are gone CUSA supporters are actually pretty good guys. They're loyal to their team, that's for sure, and are sticking around long after the CD Guadalajara people have moved on.

We need to face facts that, most likely, CUSA has an owner who unfortunately is probably sitting on a team and waiting for the value to reach a level where he feels he can make the most money and get out. It's a crime in my opinion, because everyone would have been better off selling to San Antonio and getting it over with than holding out for a few more dollars. And it's not just Chivas, Kraft doing the same thing in NE.

https://twitter.com/settingthetable/status/287752514743443457

That's like Joe Montana playing for the Iowa Barnstormers. RT @PhilSchoen Argentine star Riquelme says he nearly joined Chivas USA #MLS

Or his son playing for Tulane?

Very true ... Houston teams have a track record of good local marketing and being able to get people in the city to give a shit.

I'm not sure it's even disputed that it hasn't worked. The issue, I think, is can it work?

Garber in the LA Times November 14th:

"The whole idea when this club was launched was to try to have a club that would be specifically targeting the massive Hispanic population in this country, but more specifically in Southern California," he said. "The execution wasn't right and you've got to be smart enough and brave enough to admit when you don't get things right.

"I believe in what this opportunity can be, and I'm not going to quit until we get it right."

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/nov/14/sports/la-sp-chivas-usa-20121114

November 14th

" "This is the return of the prodigal son," Vergara said during a Beverly Hills news conference conducted primarily in Spanish. "From the start the plan was to make Chivas USA the son of Chivas de Guadalajara. Along the way it got away from that, and the clubs suffered a divorce in philosophy and structure. We are going to re-create Chivas USA as an extension of Chivas.""

Oh dear...