I'm not picking on you specifically Vic but I've never heard of a parent complaining that their kid is only playing forward and never gets to play on defense. This conversation always seems to go one way. Just an observation.
Well, of course that's true. But I don't think any kid should only be learning one position at such a young age. It also seems a bit easier to teach a kid who has learned MF and forward roles how to play defense than vice-versa. I could be wrong...
Coach email: Things for to work on: 1. Double knotted lace tying! 2. Understanding his role in different positions (this is a big one for most on the team). He did MUCH better at this in the last game. Prior to this weekend, he would roam the whole field and forget that he was supposed to be marking on defense. This week I was happy to see that for the most part he usually remembered where he should be at the right time. 3. More accuracy with his inside of the foot passing - this will come in time with more practice - but if you're working with him, don't be satisfied if simple 10 yard passes are 3 or 4 yards off target... stress the fundamentals: plant foot pointed towards target, kicking foot following through towards target (not across the body), ankle locked upward - like a golf putter 4. needs to push himself harder in both practice and games. Although he's one of the faster players on the team, he almost always finishes second to last in sprints and frequently goes 50% when drills require more intensity. In games, he often walks back when we lose the ball, instead of sprinting as fast as possible to get in-between the ball and our goal... 5. He needs to pass the ball more quickly. Like (another player who always plays in a MF role), [he] likes to try and dribble around 2 or three players and usually only passes the ball as a last resort. I think he's doing very well, and as a coach, it's nice to see real progress. I agree that he does really listen and strive to improve. For example, he's one of the few players on the team that no longer jumps in and stabs on defense. Hope this helps a little. At his age, the more time spent with a ball the better.
It's difficult to talk with him before or after practice b/c the kids are around and my son is pulling at me to go. I found the email to be a good starter and then I can engage him in person on anything he had mentioned. As for what they work on in practice, this teams biggest issue is understanding how to play the game. And what I mean is this: these kids all come from AYSO where they were getting the ball, driblling down the field and shooting. Now theyre being asked to create space for each other, pass and move and mark players. They also seem to struggle with the 25 minutes halves as opposed to four 12-minute quarters. They work a lot on passing and moving. in a 90 minute practice I would say 40% is passing in various forms, 25% individual skills (dribble, 1v1, etc.), 20% shooting type drills (but even these generally involve passing and/or crossing, and the rest scrimmaging (short sided 3 v 3 and/or 6 on 6)
"Now theyre being asked to create space for each other" Remember I told you if he beats his first defender that creates space for team mates. Also you can create space by ball movenment and player movement in two shapes one is three player movement and ball movement in a diamond shape called triangilations. Also player and ball movement in a diamond shape four player movement and ball movenment. I he working with them doing any of those two shapes. If not how is he working on creating space in his practice? ---------------------------- "pass and move" in the flow of play That is what I said for him to do in the flow of play after he beat his first defender. So he does not have a problem with that. On the email he said your sons passing is not accurate if I remember right. later I will post on how to do a tackle. Passing the ball is done in the same way called the push pass. Remember on the email your coach describe it as like in a golf putt. He should be working on the push pass with the team. Does he expect them to pass accurately with either foot and not work on that in practice? He can dribble on a field then try to hit things on the fielt with the push pass. Like garbage cans or papers laying around on the field. Or your son and you just pass to each other back and forth you should not have to move left or right to get your foot on the ball. ------------------------------------------------------------- " and mark players." He knows you dont do that after you win the ball right? After you win the ball he attacks and not defends. " They work a lot on passing and moving. in a 90 minute practice I would say 40% is passing in various forms, 25% individual skills (dribble, 1v1, etc.), 20% shooting type drills (but even these generally involve passing and/or crossing, and the rest scrimmaging (short sided 3 v 3 and/or 6 on 6)" Well thats fine he should be doing pretty well at those right? Comming from AYSO it takes about half a season to get used to the faster speed of play in travel.
This is an old post of mine showing the right way to do the stand up block tackle the normal taqckle in soccer. It also mentions the proper way to pass which is called the push pass. "Old post Let's talk about the stand up block tackle. It is all about timing and form not about being physical or big or even contact with the player. it is about winning the ball, then starting your teams attack. Tell player the idea is not to crash into the dribbler. The idea is to win the ball from the dribbler. I have the feeling nobody has worked with her on her tackling. So she doesn't know how to tackle. You don't go for the tackle when the dribbler has close control of the ball. You do close space on the dribbler. Meaning if the dribbler is alone you close that open space within two yards of the dribbler. That alone limits the dribbler options, her view of the goal and also her passing options. Then you position your self to be ready to tackle. You get into a side ways position, and again you wait for the moment where the dribbler does not have close control of the ball. Then at that time you go for the tackle. So it is a lot about the timing of the tackle knowing when to tackle. You never go straight into the player. Your not looking to bang into her just take the ball away from her. Then you can start your teams own attack. You come in from an angle to the left or the right of the dribbler not straight into the dribbler. You tackle using only the inside of the foot with a bended knee not stiff legged. You want to hit the center of the ball so your tackling foot should be slightly off the ground with the heal down, and toes up ankle locked. It looks very similar to the form she uses for her push passes. Can she make a good push pass by the way? So she hits the center of the ball, and the tackling foot follows through riding up the ball. That gives the ball top spin. You want to put top spin on the ball to help the ball go over the dribblers right or left foot depending on the angle she took. She wants to put the ball behind the dribbler off the dribblers left or right shoulder. Then you go to the ball and win the ball and start her own attack. If you don't hit the ball over the dribblers foot the first time. Immediately tackle the ball again, and keep tackling until she does win the ball. When you tackle you will hear a loud noise of your foot hitting the ball, not your foot hitting the dribbler and not the dribblers foot hitting her body. A loud noise but no one should be hurt either player. Both of you hit the ball at the same time again loud noise both neither player should be hurt because your just hitting a ball. Take a ball put it down. You come from one angle she comes from another angle you both hit the side of the ball your facing at the same time. You both will hear a loud noise, and you both will be okay. Do not turn your inside of the foot after the touch. Keep it square with the ball just like she does with the push pass. If she can't do the push pass think of it as when you putt in golf. You don't turn the face of the club immediately after the putt as your follow through you keep the face of the club in the direction you want the ball to go. The tackling foot also faces in the direction you want the ball to go. Also the non tacking foot points the direction you want the ball to go. Eye on the ball and tackle coming in from an angle, hitting the ball with the inside of your foot so it goes straight over one of the dribblers feet with your top spin follow through. You don't want to hit the ball into the dribblers body. Practice-last thing is you don't go for a tackle unless you have a team mate supporting from behind just in case you miss. Practice - once she understands that you are not making contact with the dribbler just the ball, and the foot to ball contact does not hurt she will be fine. Once she sees that she can win the ball she will be like the terminator on her tackles Good luck practice and have fun with it. "
VicDog, I'm curious about your reaction. Specifically--do you agree with the coach's assessement? In your opinion (and I'm very aware that it's hard for us parents to be completey objective), do you think the coach is seeing your son in a fair light? Does his description match your own perception?
BigRed, I think the coaches assessment is pretty accurate. My son doesn't always run as hard as he should and it is something Ive talked to him about before. Passing - I think my son is a good passer, probably one of the better ones on the team. But i do agree that he needs to be more deliberate with his technique. He will get "lazy" and just pass, often his leg is swinging across his body. This will cause the ball to be off target by a couple yards. Passing more quickly - This is an interesting one because A) he is right, the other kids on the team often stand around watching when he anyone, is dribbling. I actually thought a couple games ago he created 2-3 scoring chances by his hustle and by his passing. But yes, I think he can be doing it more. He can beat a player 1v1 and he often can do it a couple times, but he should be getting rid of it sooner. This is problematic of most of the players on the team. B) This was interesting b/c he compared my son to the star player, who only plays in a MF attacking position, in that I agree they both dribble around a bunch of kids and don;t always pass quickly enough. In the case of the star player, it is not an exaggeration to say he never passes the ball. This is what has raised my ire, for lack of a better word. My son can move with the ball and beat defenders and does so regularly, so I', not sure why he is still a defender? The last game he did get SOME time in MF, but I'm not sure how much b/c I was sick and at home and his mother is vague when it comes to understanding this aspect (I'll know more this weekend as he has 2 games) Ultimately, I don't disagree with the coaches feedback. My son needs to work harder and show that in practices and in games. He has the ability to be as good as he wants to be. I guess I'm not sure if the coach sees some of those things and thus expects them? Or does he see him as being as good as most of the other players? THAT, I don't know. What do you think of the coaches assessment?
Well, if you think it's pretty accurate, then I think that's a good sign--it shows that the coach really is paying attention to your son's development. He touches on different aspects of his game--technical and tactical, as well as a general comment about his work ethic/competitiveness. It sounds like your son is a bit like my son was at that age--talented, but not the most aggressive or driven. While that obviously is something to work on (as it was for my son), I wouldn't make that a top priority right now. He's still young, and cognitively there's a level of self-awareness necessary to gauge "How hard am I working?" that 8 year-olds might not have yet. A lot of parents don't want to hear this because it sounds 'unserious', but it's really important at the young ages for playing & practicing to be fun. Not goof-around type fun, but to genuinely enjoy what he is doing. Occasional reminders are one thing (and even there, I think it's better to "catch him being good" and give him praise for when he does work as hard as he could/should all the time), but don't make this a focus at this age. Not from you, that is. He needs you to be his Dad, not his trainer. And he needs to feel good about what he does do, not feel bad about what he isn't doing well enough. For you, I would focus more on the passing. And do it in a fun way--just you and him passing the ball back and forth, much like a father and son playing catch. Not too much 'coaching', just kicking the ball in the front yard or street or wherever. One thing I might suggest--don't get too hung up on the concept of "star players" versus your son. I'm not saying this from a place of judgement--I've been there, and I recognize that even U-little teams tend to have one or two players who seem to get more attention from the coach, are the focus of the attack, and seem to have more freedom to make mistakes and try new things than other kids. Coaches are only human, and as often as not they will have one or two "pet project" players who do get more attention than other players. That's just the nature of team sports. DON'T SWEAT IT. Keep in mind--your son is still developing his basic skills as a player. He's not competing against anybody but himself. He's got many more years of developing technical skills, positional & tactical awareness, and character. Right now, he's getting good playing time on what sounds like a pretty good team under an involved, observant, and fair-minded coach. Keep taking him to practices, keep knocking the ball around with him for fun, keep wishing him good luck before games, and keep taking him out for pizza or ice cream after games. I know I'm like a broken record, but again--it's a marathon, not a sprint.
While I have a point? Can you be anymore dismissive on a person that is a player and coach. The principles of attacking and defending apply when playing 4v4, 5v5, 8v8, 9v9 or 11v11. The development of a players techincal skills are going to depend on their training and where they play on field(where they are able to implement the techincal skills), the 1v1 development that I explained earlier. That's why one wants to play many positions to increase the technical skills, each position is going to have a different emphasis on a particple technical skills(dribbling, passing, receiving, shooting). Playing as striker and outside mid there going to be an emphasis on dribbling taking players on (creativity) and a greater emphasis for strikers on shooting. Those position are going to develop their creativity in dribbling and passing more than defensive players. CM are going to develop all these technical skills(dribbling, passing, receiving, shooting) . Players on the back line are going to develop passing, creativity in 1v1 development not so much in comparison to the other positoins. There's going to be a difference in technical passing for every positoin.
You're taking this awfully personal, it seems. I wasn't dismissing your expertise and experience, I was merely opining that in the big scheme of things, the most important thing for a young soccer player is time with the ball. I think the thing for VicDog to remember is that 8v8 is a transitional phase in the development of players--and we're talking about 8 year-old kids playing their first season of travel here, remember. As for my assertion that where you play in 8v8 doesn't necessarily translate to the full-sized field--I'll defer to your expertise on that, and maybe I'm wrong. But I don't think I'm wrong to think it won't hurt to spend a season or two focusing on one position primarily. I'm sure you know from experience that 8 year old kids process information and experience differently. They need some time at a position to really "get" what's unique about it. The specialization you note above is all true--I'm just saying that one season or one year of 8v8 is a pretty small portion of a player's ultimate development. This thread isn't about larger issues of youth development, it's about whether or not VicDog should be concerned because his son has been playing defense exclusively in his first season of travel soccer.
Only one of my sons has played travel. He's 14 years old and a freshman in HS. He's been playing travel since he was 8; this is his 7th year. My experience isn't as complete or "insider" as many of the other posters in this forum, so you'll want to listen to what others have to say about this as well. I'm not presuming to have any great insight or experience in youth soccer. My experience has been as the parent of a reasonably talented/soccer-obsessed youth player who was also a late-bloomer and tended to be one of the kids who got overlooked in favor of the "star" players and/or the more generally athletic/competitive players. I've learned through trial and error (and message boards!) how to patiently support my son, who for a long-time was one of those under-the-radar players who stuck with the sport into the high school years, when so many other players have moved on to other sports or quit playing entirely. Now he's a pretty good--and very competitive and hard-working--young player who is self-motivated and focused on getting better. And while of course he deserves the credit for that, I think part of the reason why he's arrived at this point after all the setbacks and disappointments is because his Mother and I learned to be patient and supportive, and to tune out all the white noise (including internal white noise) about other players, what the coach might be thinking, etc. Basically, I'm addressing you as a fellow soccer parent, so take my advice for what it's worth.
Multiple times you've imply that I don't know what I'm talking about. If you wanna disagree with my opinions that's fine, just come str8 and say "I disagree". It doesn't matter how old a child is for them to understand & develop their abilities on the ball in different positions. What matter is their soccer age. Under the correct development in small sided games(activities) & matches one will learn the principles of attacking/defeding and technical skills while playing no specific position. We want those players playing multiple positions so their not missing the developing aspects of soccer. It doesn't matter if it's the 1st season, 3rd season or 7th season with X-club. Vic doesn't know if his son will be playing permently under this coach all year or multiple years if the coaches at the club stay with the same team for multiple years. Playing in multiple position benefits the player, because they learn on their own what works where. Second, they(player) regardless of character, attitude, demeaner will increase their learning curve(ideally, doesn't happen in all cases obv) by doing something favorable & doing soemthing not so favorable. Ie The topic of the thread is "When to change clubs?" Everything that I've said is relevant. Vic's son is only developing from the backline. We want players to be well rounded, developing technical & tactical skills not just from backline but multiple positions all over the field. Those skills become instincitve the younger one begins to develop them. The technical skills, the principles of attacking & defending. That's why it's important to develop in the technical skills from different parts of the field(positions).
This weekend was pretty bad. We had 2 games, one on Saturday and one on Sunday. I gave my son a "pass" on Saturday as he had only started eating food that morning after a bout with a 24 hour stomach bug. He was terrible defensively and played better in the 2nd half when put in goal. It seems like every week presents something new and I am having a hard time figuring out how I can be supportive of my son while not being his coach (I've been his coach since he was in U5s). Sunday the coach started him up top where he made some decent runs and tried to get on the ball and almost had a scoring chance. I didn't think he was great, but it was nice to see him playing a different position. After 10 minutes he was subbed in for and did not play the rest of the half (25 min halves). 2nd half he played defense again where he was again ball watching and not following the player he needed to be marking. My concerns are two-fold. 1) I saw a kid who seemed disengaged when on the field on defense. He appears to be regressing where he has a good game but it's then followed up with him looking pretty over-matched. 2) He looks unsure of himself now. Playing as a forward there were a couple of times where he had the ball and tussled with a defender. As soon as the defender got the ball he seemed to step back as if to "defend" him instead of attacking him to win the ball. This happened a couple of times right around the oppositions box area. I'm not sure he knows what to do anymore! My son is a pretty quiet kid after the games. He doesn't seem to hold onto wins and losses and just moves on to the next thing. He loves to play and watches to improve, but the things I am seeing in practices don't look to be translating in games now. And that is an altogether new thing. Here's a link to a practice last week. Just a minute long clip of a scrimmage. He's the red head in the pinny...
Uh, Vic, lay off of your son? I was at a college combine with my U16B, and talked to a bunch of parents of players my son was with when he was U9. Turns out one of the best players we've ever seen went to the top club in our area, played a year then was cut, played a year somewhere else then invited back to the top club, then sat on the bench (this was U13), and quit soccer after that. This was a kid who everyone thought was the best, of hundreds of players in the area, who practiced daily and couldn't be told to stop practicing. He burnt out, and he never played soccer after age 13. His father was his biggest spokesman, talking about where his son would play (in the EPL, not Serie A even though they were Italian) when he was older, how his son loved soccer "more than anything in the world". I could also give you five more stories of kids who "were the best" and now are sitting on benches "for the best clubs". For reference, my son was picking at the grass and dandelions when he was U8, playing for the local Y, extremely rec. As you see above, he was at a college combine as a sophomore and was showing extremely well (only assist on corner for game-winner in one FSG and the other FSG was 0-0, 90% playing time with over 20 players on the roster). It was a LONG progression for him to love soccer but not the actual get-on-the-field-and-think-about-what-you're-going-because-it-is-more-fun-that-way part of it. He was also thinking about quitting at age 12 due to being benched, but changed clubs instead. I coach a U10G team. Each week we look at the game, talk about who did what and whether it worked, NOT whether it was "right" or "wrong" per se. We work on certain skills - it's a new team, so we work on teamwork, how to get the defense to support each other, how to get passes together and not bunch. For example, you talked about "stepping back" when the other team gets the ball. To me, this is a response to either being told to "not dive in" or being beat to the ball. The Dutch theory of three phases of play, where your team has possession, or the other team has possession, or the ball is in transition with no team in possession, works very well when telling players how to react to specific situations. The trouble is that the ball was in transition, not under control of the opponent, and your son reacted as if the ball was already in the opponent's possession. I call this "giving the other team a free kick" because literally some kids will back off maybe 6 - 10 feet, and the player with the ball can do whatever the heck he or she wants with it. This week for my U10G team, we are working on marking. It's a HUGE difference when I tell them "Mark a blue" and they actually do it, versus when they just bunch. They had no subs last week, and the other team had a full bench of six subs. Late in the game, they managed to start marking - or fronting I call it when our team has the ball - the blue players and held their own. As for playing time, that's why it is important to do one of two things: 1) pick the right level team for your son, for RIGHT NOW, not for where you think or hope he will be, or 2) find the right club that gives ALL players nearly equal time, at least a half, because they feel once they pick a player, the development is more important. My son has been coached by myself or my spouse off and on since he was 4 years old. We were surprised the first time he started to show skill and field sense, perhaps around age 10. He went from the lowest flight team possible to now playing for a top five team in our state. He is looking at D1 schools and getting interest. Point being, not advertising my son as much as hoping that you can understand that each kid has their own way of progressing, and it is FAR more likely for your child to reach burnout if you push a younger kid (even up to middle school and early HS) without trying to figure out motivation for any issues with "level of play" or "regression". As for the OP's question, when to change clubs is when YOUR CHILD is unhappy. That unfortunately requires you to find out what his thoughts are about his current club and current situation. Right now, my son is at a new club because his old club was extremely poor at supporting players who want to go on to college, semi-pro, or pro soccer. He may not start out on the A team, but the philosophy of the club, how they play possession soccer and do NOT focus on winning every game above all else, is what matters to him, and us. At U16B, this is my son's sixth travel club. The first two changes were geographic issues and his improvement in play. The third change was improvement in play only, then the fourth change was because he was cut extremely late (way after tryouts) due to teams combining and the new coach did not even evaluate him as he already had "his forwards". The fifth and hopefully last youth club change for him was as we noted - he wants to play in college or semi-pro or pro if he can go that far. You need to put things in perspective - your son is quite young and if he goes out and has fun and does his best, that's what is most important at this age. If the coach is abusive or otherwise treating your son and/or other players extremely poorly (playing time less than one-half of a game at this age, 0r screaming at players), you get out NOW because it is NOT worth it. But otherwise, let your son choose what he wants.
rhrh - let me make clear, I don't push my son. His mother and I had no desire to get him into Club soccer, but that's what HE wanted. This is new to me and I am trying to learn and understand what is best for him as a developing player. I am merely asking questions and trying to understand IF he is at the right club or if I am just not used to more professional coaching. That's why I came here, to get some perspective. I push my son to be the best he can be at whatever he does, school, soccer, whatever. I view soccer as one big life lesson. I'm just asking questions, that's all. He says he is having fun and enjoys his team. He's going to be 9 in December. I have NO IDEA what they should or should not be doing at this age other than I know that as much time on the ball as possible is ideal. I came here b/c I was asking if him playing defense only was a big deal or not. I had read that they should not be pigeonholed into one position at this age, and I had concerns. That's all. Maybe I've come off as an obsessed dad, but I am really only obsessed with my son b/c I love him and want the best for him. I stress weekly about whether getting him into Club at this young age was the right thing to do or not simply b/c I do worry about burnout. They practice twice a week, and play 3 games every 2 weeks, and now he has decided to join his school team as well. Again that was HIS choice. He expressed concerns about playing for his school and I told him he should do what thinks is best, and that we'd support whatever decision he decided to make. I do appreciate your opinion and advice though. And hearing what you guys have all had to say has helped his mother and me tremendously. We're just newbies at this, that's all!
Here is some advice when you take video. Just take video don't make comments except good play nice goal. Don't make highlight films either. Just get him playing the game and put it on here. On your last post he had a stomach problem. Wait and see how he doest next week. Didn't he make a pass on the end of the YouTube where a team mate got a shot off after his pass?
I'll add to this. Don't just point out stuff your son did well. Also point out the stuff that is poor like positioning, opinions(pass, shoot, dribble), decision making. Point out stuff that wasn't done that your sons was either hesitatent to do or just didn't notice. You don't have to show the vid to your son now. If one day he ask what can be improved or what you notice he's done well in. Show him a few mintues of the vid with quick, precise, accurate comments and work specifically on that. Work on activities that will improve the areas your son is poor in. Even if you son doesn't ask you what he's doing poorly, take apon yourself learn from the vids and create activities to improve the weaker parts of your sons abilities.
I actually don't show him the videos unless he asks. All of our family lives in Ireland so I take the video for his family over there to see. And to your point, I notice the things he does poorly and I try to work on that when we're kicking the ball around without trying to make it sound like a chore.
Yes he did. I think he is still getting accustomed to how fast the play is in games. He passes the ball well generally. But in games, it's more about a few touches and finding the open player and making a strong pass.
Best thing is when they are married and have their own kids, and grandpa is asked to help your son coach their kids. The next best thing is when you get "the what to do call" that's when a problem comes up and they want you to help them with it because they don't know what to do. Incidentally my oldest son is almost 40 and his first name is Vic.