News: What it would mean to play in the winter, weather-wise

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by ElJefe, Jan 4, 2013.

  1. GVPATS77

    GVPATS77 Member+

    Aug 18, 2008
    Fullerton, CA
    Despite heated fields in England, games are postponed regularly in England, which has much, much milder weather than anywhere in MLS outside of Los Angeles and San Jose.
     
    Neuwerld repped this.
  2. El Naranja

    El Naranja Member+

    Sep 5, 2006
    Alief
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The connections is what did it. Oliver Luck and Chris Cannetti knew which people to sweet talk (Texas Southern University) to get this done. In a sad way, it is a good thing that the former president of TSU stole all that money from the school. She still deserves to be hung from the neck 'till dead, but it did create a situation where the Dynamo could solve their stadium issue for essentially free. Right time, right place, right connection.
     
    redinthemorning repped this.
  3. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    No, not "the majority of" -- but certainly "more of" that total population that lives within the big market would have a better option or possibility to get to the (hypothetically) downtown venue in bad weather.

    Public transportation is always part of the answer or solution, if the hope is to be able to give (more) people reliable means and another readily available option for getting from point A to point B.

    If point B is some entertainment venue, and that point was close to where more people generally lived (downtown or near the population center at point A) then certainly yes, the location of the stadium does change the transportation (and/or even walkability) issues.
     
  4. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    Yes, and England schedules/plays right through January.

    MLS, hypothetically, could set a schedule more like Russia's or Germany's and likely miss a good bit of the harshest weather and likely need to postpone/reschedule (so or too) many games.
     
  5. El Naranja

    El Naranja Member+

    Sep 5, 2006
    Alief
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Correct me if I'm wrong but most Western teams are generally built as spread out coolections of suburbs with a small downtown population and limited puboic transportation. A car is mandatory to get around the place.

    If incliment weather hits, downtown stadium or no, the majority of the populace won't be able to attend if cars aren't a safe way to travel.
     
    AndyMead and Jasonma repped this.
  6. Inca Roads

    Inca Roads Member+

    Nov 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    As far as KC goes, I don't believe there's any noticeable mass transportation to LSP at all. Everyone drives. The stadium is just about in the middle of nowhere--if it tells you anything, we are right next to and share parking with the NASCAR race track. Aside from the useless Sprint Center, I don't think we actually have any sports complexes of note in the city anywhere.
     
  7. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    You obviously don't have much experience with how well mass transit works during bad weather in most U.S. cities.
     
  8. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Even my parents, when they lived in Newton Centre, then Needham drove to closest MBTA stop. While Boston has one of the better mass transit systems, I can tell you that a snow storm would keep them from heading to the Boston Garden - or anywhere else on the MBTA.

    Yeah, there are hardcore fans that'll do whatever to attend any game. The NFL is there - and they don't schedule games in February. MLS isn't anywhere close.
     
  9. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    In good or bad weather, mass transit is more effective and works better than (and/or is a needed supplement or alternative to) personal vehicle transportation.

    Placing entertainment venues close to population centers and multiple (and public/mass) transportation options is the preferred business approach in pretty much every situation.

    And yes, there are numerous reasons for why MLS has built venues where they have in many markets. And there will be reasons in the future why MLS will work to create more centrally-located venues, when possible, as it evolves and matures as a business.
     
  10. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Since this was started about Denver, I'll point out that those vaunted mass transit lines (talking rail, not bus) do not currently exist to Aurora (largest suburb and 3rd largest city in the state), Lakewood (2nd largest suburb and 5th largest city), Thornton (3rd and 6th), Arvada (4th and 8th), or Westminster (5th and 9th). The 6th largest suburb, Centennial (and 10th in the state) is the largest suburb to currently have rail service other than the city of Denver itself. So yeah, a very large part of the Rapids market would still have no mass transit options in winter, and those northern suburbs would probably have to drive further than they do now to the Dick.
     
    sitruc repped this.
  11. SYoshonis

    SYoshonis Member+

    Jun 8, 2000
    Lafayette, Louisiana
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
  12. revsrock

    revsrock Member+

    Jul 24, 1999
    Boston Ma
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Anyone who compares NFL fans going to games in bad weather and MLS games in bad weather misses one thing

    Avg NFL ticket cost non-luxury $79(8 home games)
    Avg MLS ticket cost non-luxury $26(17 home games)

    Which one do you think hurts the least to give up.
     
  13. Minutemanii

    Minutemanii Member+

    Dec 29, 2005
    Abington MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I see your location is Atlanta. Let me please point out a few things. In New England we have what I'll call pre-winter, winter and post winter. Pre-winter is pretty cold... anywhere from high 40's to to the freezing point of 32. Pre-winter doesn't have a lot of snow in the beginning of it but it can have cold rain and it is very dark outside. This sucks and also is a shock to our system, because it doesn't matter whether you grew up here, your body is adjusted to summer and fall and needs to get used to the cold. Then there is late pre-winter, where it's closer to freezing and it could snow. Any one of the above would not stop fans from coming to Patriot's games, but for some reason, would be disastrous for Rev's games. Maybe it's because parents call the shots and they are not as devoted as the children they take to games. Heck, they don't even show up in the rain. I.E. the league hasn't matured.

    So, then there is real winter. Real winter is when it's below freezing and could get below zero, often with wind chill factors of well below zero. Daylight lasts 8 hours and it's depressing. Not only is this a non starter for fans but it's pretty much a non starter for players. It's pure folly.

    Then there is post winter... Where it starts out very very cold and many times has snow on the ground. Still short days thoughout February. This transitions into sleet and cold rain. Not conducive to a fun soccer atmosphere.

    I guess when you live in a warm climate it's easy to forget that winter rages in places. The only thing we could do to play a winter schedule is to have a more devoted fan base and a stadium with a retractable roof. Hope this helps.
     
  14. fuzzx

    fuzzx Member+

    Feb 4, 2012
    Brossard
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    ugh, I can't believe this is coming up again..

    Speaking for the team likely most affected by theses changes, moving the schedule to where it currently is is tolerable only because we have an alternative facility.

    The schedule came out today and some of the dates are relevant:

    we open in Seattle then a week later in Portland, then open at home on March 16th at Olympic stadium. We have one other game at the O that the team could have chosen to put ANYWHERE on the schedule and hope to attract a 60k crowd, but when did they decide to put it? The week after, March 23rd against NY.

    in case it wasn't obvious here is what the temperature is like then:

    On April 1st, the record high is 21C, low is -7C and average is 1C
    On March 1st the record high is 5C, low is -21C and average is -5C

    Our first game outdoors is April 13th because its finally when people other than the hardcore would be willing to attend. While the situation is the same in November, we have shown that we are willing to come out in force for playoff games.


    This scheduling pattern will always be the case. And games in February will only force us to have more away games up front (clear competitive disadvantage) and/or more games at the O (disadvantageous financially and fan momentum-wise)

    I doubt I need to repeat this, but i'll do it anyways. This is what Saputo looked like yesterday:
    [​IMG]



    And a 4 week break during summer is the most ridiculous things ever. The 2 week break we had last year was bad enough in killing casual fan interest(especially given that it was preceded by away games) but what this does is stop playing in the most ideal weather we have all year. Obviously FIFA dates must be worked around but expanding the break more than necessary is highly counter-productive.
     
    Craig P, Kejsare, RSLer and 3 others repped this.
  15. THOMA GOL

    THOMA GOL BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 16, 1999
    Frontier
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The forecast this Saturday in Columbus, Ohio is for temps the 60's..............in January :giggle:
     
  16. Minutemanii

    Minutemanii Member+

    Dec 29, 2005
    Abington MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, Well, Columbus, is close to the Mason Dixon line.
     
  17. MLS1FAN

    MLS1FAN Member+

    May 11, 2004
    Miami Beach,FL
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nice photo, but isn't this normal for January and no one is talking about MLS play in January. Even for the start of the 2013 MLS season a few games in Montreal would be played at the big "O", this topic has good arguments on both sides of this topic. But here is what's reality, the league and the Don will do what best for this league in the long run and you can count on that! If the schedule is restructured and the league starts play in August, then attendance should be great all around and maybe taper a bit leading up until after the first few games after the start of the second half of a possible Fall to Speing season. The first couple of season would be an adjustment for many fans like yourself, but after a while everyone would just conform to what is the norm and life goes on.
     
  18. GVPATS77

    GVPATS77 Member+

    Aug 18, 2008
    Fullerton, CA
    That's the line where the Rocky movies turned to shit right?
     
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  19. Minutemanii

    Minutemanii Member+

    Dec 29, 2005
    Abington MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Easily said for another commentator from the south.
     
    sitruc, RSLer, KCbus and 2 others repped this.
  20. MLS1FAN

    MLS1FAN Member+

    May 11, 2004
    Miami Beach,FL
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Easy to assume right? I live in Florida now, but I'm from the Northeast like many other transplanted New Yorkers who live down here in South Florida... but it's ok, you didn't know! ;)
     
  21. THOMA GOL

    THOMA GOL BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 16, 1999
    Frontier
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Al Gore agrees:cool:
     
  22. Grumpy in LA

    Grumpy in LA Bringing It Since 1807™

    Sep 10, 2007
    Chicago
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Somebody else has probably already pointed this out, but the MLS season starts in March.
     
  23. westcoast ape

    westcoast ape Member+

    Nov 27, 2000
    Portland, OR
    Besides the near impossibility of certain cities hosting games in December, January and February, we shouldn't neglect that many of the warmer climes will still suffer decreased attendance during those months.

    Does anyone have attendance statistics for LA where game time temps are below 50 degrees? Or raining? Players would have no problem playing the game, but I would imagine that some of the southern cities would be looking at 5,000 or more fewer fans in their stands.
     
    fuzzx repped this.
  24. Grumpy in LA

    Grumpy in LA Bringing It Since 1807™

    Sep 10, 2007
    Chicago
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/dec/18/liverpool-fulham-wigan-villa-postponed
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lummet-10C-bringing-travel-chaos-Britain.html

    Meanwhile, in a few relevant MLS markets:
    • Toronto: average MEAN temperatures in Dec. 2010: -4 C (average low is -7 C). There were four days in Dec. 2010 when the HIGH temperature was -5 C or lower.
    • Montreal: average MEAN temperature in Dec. 2010: -6 C (average low is -9 C). There were ten days in Dec. 2010 when the HIGH temperature was -5 C or lower.
    • Salt Lake: average LOW temperature in Dec.: -5 C
    • Chicago: average LOW temperature in Dec.: -5 C.
    So England can have games Dec.-Feb. because -6 C with or without a lot of snow at game time is a once-in-a-century event. But in a lot of MLS markets, it wouldn't be too surprising to get those conditions several times each month.
     
    sitruc, Kejsare, itcheyness and 7 others repped this.
  25. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And in 2007 the Rapids sold out the Dick for the opening match at -5.5 C with an overnight ice storm that delayed my ride from Boulder for at least an hour.
     

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