What is the correct Restart?

Discussion in 'Referee' started by IllinoisRef, Feb 7, 2012.

  1. IllinoisRef

    IllinoisRef Member

    Jul 6, 2011
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I know it has been discussed here but it's been discussed on a fellow referee's blog and some people have different opinions.
    I have a feeling that the members of this board won't have a hard time getting it right.

    The Situation: after the ball has been bouncing around the defending half a player steals the ball near the touch line and starts a quick breakaway towards the goal, as he is running along the line now on the attacking half with no defenders near him.
    Suddenly a substitute player sitting on the bench sticks his leg into the field tripping the attacking player.
    What's the call? What's the restart?
     
  2. timtheref

    timtheref Member

    Aug 23, 2010
    Need more information in relation to where on the field, and some other factors. At minimum though, yellow and IDFK. Could be red. Would need the rest of the info.
     
  3. IllinoisRef

    IllinoisRef Member

    Jul 6, 2011
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    The player was in the attacking half near the touchline, in front of the opposing teams bench ( I assume 2/3 of that half of the field) with no defenders near him. That's all I was told.
     
  4. timtheref

    timtheref Member

    Aug 23, 2010
    I would say he's probably too far from goal to consider this an OGSO. I'd go yellow and IDFK, but I could see an argument for red if someone wants to make it. The yellow would be for USB. If you really wanna go there, if as it sounds the sub crossed the touchline at some level, you could go yellow for the entering and yellow for USB and then red for 2CT, but that would depend on the game.
     
  5. IllinoisRef

    IllinoisRef Member

    Jul 6, 2011
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I already have the anwser, I'll post as we get more responses.
    See my PM to you.
     
  6. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In a competitive game I'm sending him off someway.

    If I can't stretch it into VC then I'm getting him for UB for entering and UB for tripping him.
     
  7. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    +1

    Book answer aside, he's gone. There is absolutely no point to keeping someone around who actually executes this move.

    This question is always asked in a vaccuum and some people like to argue for the yellow card by the letter of the law. It ignores the reality that such a move, in a competitive match, would likely set off a mini-riot and make the rest of the game almost unmanageable. The only chance you'd have to regain control is to immediately dismiss the substitute.
     
  8. Thezzaruz

    Thezzaruz Member+

    Jun 20, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Sweden
    2/3 of the field and he too far from goal?


    No you can't. Entering the FoP isn't an offence a substitute can be cautioned for.
     
  9. todler

    todler New Member

    Apr 6, 2008
    NN, VA
    Technically, you can. But the official reason is UB, not entering. So 2YC works here.

    And I'd agree, I'd figure out how to remove said player, either through DOGSO, 2YC or if it's a rough enough tackle, VC.
     
  10. Thezzaruz

    Thezzaruz Member+

    Jun 20, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Sweden
    Exactly, need to remember that distinction when reporting it as it could cause a bit of trouble otherwise.

    As an aside this is probably the most moronic wording in the LotG, I've never understood why the IFAB hasn't cleared it up.
     
  11. kayakhorn

    kayakhorn Member+

    Oct 10, 2011
    Arkansas
    How about this slight variation. I work a fair number of HS games on turf where there is very little space between the touch line and a curb at the edge of the track. By school edict the benches cannot be placed on the track, so there may only be 3-4 feet between the bench and the touch line (barely enough for the AR). If the attacker has to take an angle on the ball where his momentum takes him slightly off the field in front of the opposing bench, and a substitute sitting there sticks out a foot to trip him, you lose one justification for a first yellow. Assuming you still want to send off the offender, how would you write it up? Are there alternatives to a possibly very soft VC?
     
  12. Errol V

    Errol V Member+

    Mar 30, 2011
    Looked to me as though the very tip of the perp's cleat was just over the outside of the touchline. UB for entering the field of play, and UB for the trip.
     
  13. JoseP

    JoseP Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    The restart, I think, is a drop ball. The sub player isn't really part of the game and would be no different if a dog ran onto the field and tripped the player.

    A simialr situation happened in a game I played. A sub player on an opposing team stopped a ball that he thought had gone out of bounds. The ref gave us a free kick. I personally thought the correct call would be a dropped ball because that sub player wasn't part of the game.
     
  14. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    Totally different repsonse to something posted....That HS would rather put the benches THAT close to the field so someone could run into it rather than MAYBE damage their track? If I'm the referee, that bench is being moved back or we aren't starting the match. Period.
     
  15. Paper.St.Soap.Closed

    Jul 29, 2010
    I think in either your example or the OP, we can consider a send off for VC and I wouldn't even consider it soft. Considering the basic elements of a foul (by a player, against a player, on the field of play) we don't have a foul, right? So we can't SFP. Also, I think doing the double yellow dance only makes it more complicated and confusing to all parties involved

    Bottom line is this guy has to go. Red, VC, paperwork and add it to the war story chest.
     
  16. Paper.St.Soap.Closed

    Jul 29, 2010
    A substitute (or substituted player) is a little different than an outside agent like a dog because you know what team they belong to. So, the restart I believe would be IFK.

    Note: I got a little click happy and chose the wrong option on the poll. That's why there is one person who voted for DFK, when I really meant IFK. Sheesh, I write a post about how it can't be a foul and then select DFK. :confused:
     
  17. fairplayforlife

    fairplayforlife Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Subs and Substituted player are not the same as a dog or anything of the like.

    There are two catagories you can fall into that would determine the restart for someone not in the active 11 players. These people make it IFK: Substitutes or Substituted Players. These people objects and things make it a dropped ball: everyone and everything not previously mentioned.

    (whoops I typed too slow and someone beat me to the explaination)

    On another note that isn't related to the quoted passage. This is never going to be a weak VC in my mind. One of the concepts we use when thinking of VC or SFP is, was the player defenseless to the act? This is why tackles from behind are an automatic no-no. They player has no way to defend themselves. Same goes for a sub doing something. There is no way a player is going to be expecting a sub to do something to them and it is going to make the act much worse. Easy VC in my mind. My personal opinion.
     
  18. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    So the dropped ball restarts are out because a substitute is NOT an outside agent (like a dog). And it isnt a DFK because it's really not a trip per se because even though it's a trip it's not really a trip! (I have confused myself!) So, it has to be indirect because it's not direct! When in doubt you can fall back to the indirect be process of elimination! (Whew...I feel like Yogi Berra here...).

    I think he has to go, and VC would be harder to justify than 2ct, in my book. But, if the player went sprawling, I would easily send him off and then send the coach off when he started complaining, and then the parents of the kid, and finally have to call the cops. (I have had WAY too much coffee this morning).
     
  19. NHRef

    NHRef Member+

    Apr 7, 2004
    Southern NH
    Why the creative aspect to get rid of the sub? No need. It's violent conduct all day long. Red card, he's gone, restart IFK since he was on the field.
     
  20. QuietCoach

    QuietCoach Member

    Jul 19, 2011
    Littleton, MA
    Just from a rulebook perspective, I wonder if this could be a red card for Serious Foul Play. Law 12 indicates that all 7 of the sending-off offenses apply to substitutes and substituted players.

    That would be a bit of a shaky interpretation, since as Paper pointed out, a foul has to be committed by a player, and this one was committed by a substitute. Still, if each of the 7 red card offenses can apply to a substitute under some circumstances, this situation seems like a good candidate. Calling it SFP would help justify a DFK if that is the restart the referee really feels is most appropriate, as well as avoiding the awkward appearance of two back-to-back UB cautions for a single action of misconduct by the substitute.

    Another interesting question is whether or not to apply advantage if the ball remains on the field and the attacker remains on his feet, with no opponents nearby.

    - QC
     
  21. Errol V

    Errol V Member+

    Mar 30, 2011
    I agree completely.
     
  22. IllinoisRef

    IllinoisRef Member

    Jul 6, 2011
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    My response:

    Per laws of the game only players on the roster can/must be shown cards whether they are on the field or not. Team personnel, and spectators are not to be shown cards.
    Since a substitute (or substituted player) commited the MISCONDUCT and you believe a card is in order what color and what is the reason?

    Once the substitute (called bench player on the original question) sticks his leg into the field of play he has entered the field illegally, which is one of the cautionable offenses. It must be written as Unsporting behaviour. So we have a mandatory caution. But what about the tripping offense. Is that a foul?
    Only players on the field and while the ball is in play can commit a foul. Anything else is misconduct. So no foul here. BUT, if in the opinion of the referee the tripping action done in a reckless manner you could show a second yellow followed by a red car or if you think it was with excessive force it could be written as Serious foul play (straight red). This could also be seen as Violent Conduct since the player on the field had no chance to defend himself.

    Now what's the correct restart. LAW 3 holds the anwser:
    Infringements and sanctions

    If a substitute or substituted player enters the field of play without the referee’s
    permission:
    • the referee stops play (although not immediately if the substitute or
    substituted player does not interfere with play)
    • the referee cautions him for unsporting behaviour and orders him to leave
    the field of play
    • if the referee has stopped play, it is restarted with an indirect free kick for
    the opposing team from the position of the ball at the time of the stoppage
    (see Law 13 – Position of free kick)


    Cautionable offences

    A player is cautioned and shown the yellow card if he commits any of the
    following seven offences:
    • unsporting behaviour
    • dissent by word or action
    • persistent infringement of the Laws of the Game
    • delaying the restart of play
    • failure to respect the required distance when play is restarted with a corner
    kick, free kick or throw-in
    • entering or re-entering the field of play without the referee’s permission
    • deliberately leaving the field of play without the referee’s permission

    LAW 12 – FOULS AND MISCONDUCT

    A substitute or substituted player is cautioned if he commits any of the
    following three offences:
    • unsporting behaviour
    • dissent by word or action
    • delaying the restart of play

    Sending-off offences

    A player, substitute or substituted player is sent off if he commits any of the
    following seven offences:
    • serious foul play
    • violent conduct
    • spitting at an opponent or any other person
    • denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goalscoring opportunity
    by deliberately handling the ball (this does not apply to a goalkeeper within
    his own penalty area)
    • denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity to an opponent moving
    towards the player’s goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or a
    penalty kick
    • using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures
    • receiving a second caution in the same match

    A player, substitute or substituted player who has been sent off must leave the
    vicinity of the field of play and the technical area.


    Reference: LOTG, USSF ATR 12.35, 3,10, 3.18, 5.10
     
  23. Tumbleweed

    Tumbleweed Member

    Sep 30, 2010
    Bay Area CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It is VC and a red card. Per FIFA LOG pg119: A player is guilty of violent conduct if he uses excessive force or brutality against an opponent when not challenging for the ball. Since the player causing the infraction is not on the field of play but is a substitute they can not be changing for the ball. So VC striking another player red card.
    Restart per FIFA LOG pg 120: If the ball is in play and the player commits an offence inside the field of play: against an opponent, play is restarted with a DFK from the position where the offence occurred or a PK if inside the penalty area.
     
  24. bothways

    bothways Member

    Jun 27, 2009
    a foul is committed by
    a. one of the 22 players against an opponent
    b. ball is in play
    c. on the field

    if not all of these 3, then cannot be SFP

    definitely, an IFK, and yes go with a red for violent conduct- if the tripping is intentional.

    Or go with a dogso. Think about it this way- if a sub stops the ball going in the net with his hand- it is not a penalty kick, but he has denied the goal being scored- FIFA says nail him on this.
     
  25. Tumbleweed

    Tumbleweed Member

    Sep 30, 2010
    Bay Area CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    opps double post
     

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