What has happened to the English teams in the CL?

Man City might still end up in Pot 3. They didn't get enough coefficients this season to move them high enough to avoid it. They could end up in a group with Barca and Milan. If Milan is not there, City could also be in the same group as Juve, whose coefficients are so low they will likely be in Pot 4, not 3.

 

It's not Harsh at all, it's black and white.

Napoli didn't choke, they lost, end of story. They weren't good enough to defend a lead. Chelsea were winning in Napoli and had chances, you could argue they choked.

Milan were very fortunate to get past Arsenal in the end, let alone Barcelona.

 

Well both Barca and Milan will Likely be top seeds next season so they cannot be in the same group.

Man City are ranked # 28 but there are numerous teams ahead of them that did/will not qualify for CL so they will be a #2 seed surely. I mean, sure they could get Bayern and Juve but it is highly unlikely.

 

Now that I look at it, it does seem more likely that Milan will be in Pot 1. They're in #12 (likely #13 since Valencia needs only a win or a draw to pass them), but they have 5 teams in front of them that likely won't be in the Champions League next season. One team from either Chelsea, Inter, Lyon, or Atletico Madrid (the 5th team is Liverpool, but they definitely won't make it to the CL) has to qualify to stop Milan from getting into Pot #1.

Man City needs 12 teams in front of them to fail to qualify in order to get into Pot 2. They already have 5 potential ones listed above. To add to that, Marseille, Sporting Lisbon, Villarreal, Werder Bremen, and Hamburg are all definitely out, PSV, Roma, and Sevilla need to make up points to get to the CL spot, and CSKA Moscow and Tottenham can easily fall out of the CL spot.

So you're right, it seems Man City should be able to get into Pot 2. If they're in Pot 2, then things should get easier, or at least not as difficult as having Barca and Milan in the group.

 

Italian teams have done well this year. It's nice seeing weak leagues do well. But one swallow doesn't make a summer.

 

Barca/Real
Milan
ManC
Dortmund

How is that for a group? Especially if all those teams enter the CL as winners of their domestic leagues (the 4 strongest leagues in Europe), which is quite possible.

 

Indeed.

And wouldn't it be fair to say there would be little disgrace in being eliminated from such a group?

 

The thread was started by a Liga fan. And they do deserve to be mocked, all the money and notoriety in the world could only produce one quarter finalist by the graces of a hand ball penalty.

That's consolation for the mighty EPL? If I was a Chelsea/Man City fan with that kind of money I'd expect to be in the quarters every year. (I'll give Man City a break because its their first try unlike EPL fans mocking Napoli who came from Serie C1 division less than 7 years ago.)

In the context of football economics and how heavily Serie A has fallen from the European balance, I think Napoli and Milan can be happy.

More so Napoli a club from southern Italy of all places actually playing in a knockout round against Chelsea who spent close to a 100 million quid in the last two seasons.

Because realistically Arsenal don't have the players or infrastructure to do anything. Even if Oxley somehow becomes Englands next world beater, its going to take several years for him to learn the European game. And at that point you need the 'Patrick Veira's' of the world to support the forwards but those kind of players are consistently being procured by other 'richer' teams. It also doesn't help that RVP is probably leaving which leaves a void that Arsenal can't fill with 'money'.

Man City's seemingly infinite money resource makes it hard to give them any consideration. But i'll give them a break and I also fully expect them to reach the knockout's next season, but I don't rate them highly enough to actually win it.

They have no excuses but they're better positioned to doing something noteworthy in Europe long term - I can't say the same about most of their English peers.

I beg to differ. If you even bother to read up on Napoli's back story, what they were able to do this season considering the group they were in, was incredible.

Milan had an away goal against the best team in the world and the game was tied going in to the second half...

We'll see another Chelsea debacle in the next tie and it will be the same thing all over again.

 

Don't go down that road. It doesn't lead anywhere.

Until Messi enters his mid thirties, every game Barca is likely to play in Europe will be deemed 'more deserving' purely on their attacking ability and possession of the ball.

The only difference between Bayern and Milan,Chelsea, Arsenal etc. is that Bayern haven't played Barca yet, so Bayern fans have yet to be soiled by the experience.

 

With all due respect this a troll post.

 

No don't worry, I'm not being a fanboy of Barcelona, as there are more than enough of them in the Bayern board. Barcelona should have gotten a penalty In Milan during that tug from the corner kick, so that non given call makes up for the ridiculous penalty in Spain.

I'm not one that just looks at possession and shots to determine whose more "deserving", but the penalty case when you even one out with another, it's the right result. Milan weren't cheated out of anything, they were just beaten by a team that was better than them since they took their chances and Milan did not. There's little controversy there for me.

Bayern did play Barcelona a couple years ago, but they got dismantled unfortunately.

 

Is that why you turn on the TV? So you can watch the games and then come on the forums and debate penalty claims? Is that what football has come to?

I think its ********ing sad is all. Yeah Milan couldn't score in the home leg and you can definitely give them shit for that, but going back and forth on penalty claims is getting so ********ing old.

 

Frankly, the reason why Barca get so many calls in their favor is simply because they dominate possession so incredibly well. Of course they're going to get fouled more than the other team.

This would go away if the opposing team managed to dominate the midfield against Barca. It's been about 5 years since something like that has happened, though. The only way teams beat Barca nowadays is to give up the midfield, pull off a successful defensive bunker, and get lucky on a counter or two.

Madrid is the only team in a position to do something different, and even they haven't been able to do it.

 

Don't forget that they're also pint sized, so basically you or I could kick their asses. (Maybe not Pique).

 

English football has one bad season and it instantly deserves to be mocked, huh?

You say that with all the money Chelsea have spent, they should be in the quarters every year... well they are. You understand they've reached the semis this season, right?

So that leaves:

Man City, who you've suddenly given a pass, as you've realised it wasn't an embarassment to be eliminated from their group and that it's their first season.

Arsenal, who we seem to have established aren't all that rich and didn't have high expectations, yet ultimately went out with their heads held high after coming a whisker from one of the biggest comebacks in history.

And United who choked this term, but who you feel will bounce back.

You also twist and turn with regards to Serie A teams stature. You've declared Milan "the best defensive team in the world", said they have a "two year window" to win the competition, they've certainly spent some money in recent years (Robinho and Ibra weren't exactly peanuts), yet now you're suggesting that Milan can be happy, as if they're some kind of minnow.

Like I said, my posts about Serie A are simply tit-for-tat. No matter who started this thread, it was the Serie A fans that piled in, declaring their imminent overtake of English football. You can't have it both ways. You can't act like Italian football is now superior earlier in the thread, then try to back off and declare that Italian teams have done relatively well for even reaching the R16 & quarter finals.

Um...

"And they do deserve to be mocked, all the money and notoriety in the world could only produce one quarter finalist by the graces of a hand ball penalty."

 

Sweet momma! Barcelona made more chances and scored more goals, played better and deservedly went through.

Milan wasn't in the same league as them. Any team that's happy to earn a 0-0 at home deserves nothing more than they got.

Get over it.

 

The mocking part is just trash talk which is mostly what this thread is about. Just look at the post below your response. To be fair this entire thread is mostly devoid of any kind of substance or rational thought, just constant backlash.

However I've made an attempt to talk about what the current state of English football is and what I think it holds for the future. I might be wrong, but clearly there have been 'trends' of dominant periods in Europe between leagues, and I think the EPL could be at the beginning of 'dip'.

Incidentally a thread with a headline saying: "What has happened to the English teams in CL" is just begging to be muddied with constant baiting so I think you should hardly be surprised at all.

But that's the irony of it, they qualified with help. One referee gives a handball in the 2nd home leg but another referee forgets to give Benfica one for the exact same offense?

All the money in the world and they've only played one CL final since the Russian bought the team in 2003.

...which is ironic considering no one seems to crying for Naples.

Technically they are rich, but their self entitled prophecy of being 'above' anybody who spends or doesn't want to play their 'track meet' style of football - while systematically offsetting the sympathy vote because they shell out high salaries to young players that don't deserve them and manipulate wealthy North Londoners into paying thousands of pounds for match tickets to watch young players ripped away from former French colonies...

...and then on top of that you have Wenger...

They have a winning pedigree in European football, and if they're good enough to win the Premiership title (which they probably are) then they're good enough to do much better next season in Europe as well.

I don't think that's far fetched line of thinking, do you?

Against Barca they're certainly a minnow, as is everyone.

I never said or 'acted' that Italian football is superior. I think Italian football is being undermined, and I think UEFA officials have played a part in that, but I never claimed that they were superior.

Its unfortunate that penalties have played a central role in the elimination of Italian based clubs. And it sucks when it happens because you get into penalty claim arguments with people and it becomes quite boring.

But I never harped on the Chelsea hand ball penalty at any length at any time, however, it was ultimately the hand ball goal that decided the tie without question. And it certainly doesn't do minnows like Napoli or Benfica (not calling a handball) any favours.

 

I'm getting the high horse treatment from Bayern fans now?

These really are dark times...

 

Personally I'd say they did well until the 1/4 finals. Although it's not where you start it's where you finish.

Inter were lucky to get that far and udinese were knocked out by Arsenal at the first hurdle.

However Napoli were very good and Ac Milan were good.

This has been one of the worst years for the EPL in 10 years overall in Europe, yet amazingly there is still Chelsea in the semi final.

 

So pointing out opinions and facts is a troll post?

I watched all 4 legs, and Chelsea and Arsenal dominated at home.

Two teams took their home advantage first, then the other 2 did. There is no choking there.

 

And amazingly they still have the second-best country coefficient for this season.

 

No, you aren't getting the high horse treatment. You're just one of the biggest delusional Italian fans who everyone tends to laugh at because he can't see common sense if it hits him in the face in BigSoccer.

Barcelona was the better team over the two legs and the penalty "scandals" evened themselves out over both games. One should of been given in Italy, and another shouldn't have been given in Spain. I definitely think Barca has gotten their share of good luck (like every team that wins the CL) over the years in several discussions, Chelsea in particular, but this match wasn't it.

 

Milan gave Barca their most competitive series (twice) in quite some time. In Milan's second attempt they arguably came the closest to knocking out Barca since Iniesta's late equalizer against Chelsea in 2009. At 1-1 it was a completely different game until the penalty was gifted.

I don't care if Barca were more 'deserving'. They have Alexis Sanchez, Messi, Iniesta and Cesc Fabregas playing in the same team for Christ sakes, they'll always 'seem' more deserving. But merit is something else, and they didn't win on merit. Arsenal and Chelsea know something about this, just ask them.

But I'm sure Bayern would have done better...

 

yes we qualified to the semi, and your team didnt.

problem?

 

Final is in Munich this year, don't jinx it for yourself.