What has happened to the English teams in the CL?

Discussion in 'UEFA and Europe' started by Beticious, Nov 24, 2011.

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  1. canzano55

    canzano55 Member+

    Jun 23, 2003
    Toronto
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Well you need at least one EPL team in there, its better for ratings.
     
  2. lost

    lost Member

    May 24, 2006
    England
    weird game. chelsea were brilliant and awful in almost equal measures. pity to see napoli go out. i mean, they are cheating cheating bastards, but there is some serious quality in that side. they didnt show much tonight, but even at 122 mins they could have won the tie.
     
  3. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    The best EPL teams depend too much on aging players. With their schedule, that means they cannot do much in Europe.

    On the other hand, La Liga and the Bundesliga have a lot of youth. Even Serie A is seeing more and more young players becoming key for the top teams.
     
  4. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    Yeah, Napoli was the team cheating out there. :rolleyes:

    Didier "peek-a-boo" Drogba was the most influential player on the pitch. Granted, he also played some football.
     
  5. evangel

    evangel Member+

    Apr 12, 2007
    I really think Chelsea fans lost the right to post pictures of peek-a-boo Busquests after that one. :D

    Anyway, Manchester United is out, and Manchester City is currently losing 2-1 with under 30 minutes to go. They need 3 goals now to advance, or they are also out.

    If it weren't for Chelsea, England would surely have lost their first place position in the coefficient rankings to Spain this season. Even if they don't lose it, Spain will almost certainly end up very close.

    Edit: Man City now made it 2-2. Things are getting interesting in that match.

    Edit 2: I spoke too soon it seems. Manchester City winning 3-2 now. They need 1 more goal to qualify, with about 7 minutes plus stoppage remaining.

    Edit 3: Sporting go through, but incredibly tense match at the end. Chelsea is now the only English team left in European competition.
     
  6. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    US/UK dual citizen in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Spain have been the strongest league this season. Bilboa tore United apart, depressingly for me.

    However, I don't think anybody was disputing that Spain has two exceptionally talented teams in the CL and I myself have pointed out in these discussions that Spain's other teams often do well in the Europa League.

    The people bitching and gloating the most on this thread were the Serie A followers - and they too have but one team remaining in Europe. And let's be fair, after a dismal first leg against Milan, Arsenal left the competition with a lot of credit after almost recovering that 4-0 deficit.
     
  7. Lusankya

    Lusankya Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 14, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Indeed. No one ever questioned Barcelona or the new Real Madrid. But Atletico and Bilbao showed, that the other Spanish teams are up to the task.
    I would include Valencia as well, but they only play EL, because they were eliminated in CL. And they were eliminated by the joke team, the ultimate humilation, by Bayer 17 Leverkusen. :eek: ;)

    But if this season is any indication for the future, than the Primera Division will soon be the #1 in the UEFA rankings.
     
  8. steveedster

    steveedster Member

    Feb 9, 2006
    English sides peaked 5 yrs ago and are now all in a slump...

    There is no doubt English sides peaked 5 yrs ago and are now all in a slump... the question is will they peak again in a few years?
    All the major English clubs appear to be in a slump,

    Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea all peaked together several years ago but are all now in a downward slump together compared to a few years ago.

    Spurs are on the way up but I don't think they will ever reach as high a level consistantly.

    Man City are badly managed and coached, they have the players (they should rip teams to shreds with the players thay have) but never play as they should do.

    These things tend to go in cycles, what do you all think, will the EPL teams become strong again in a few years??
     
  9. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm wondering is Spain can catch England this season. England leads by 3.831 for 2007-2008 through 2011-2012 so far. http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/calc.html says that reaching the Semifinals and Final of the Champions League are worth 1 bonus point each which means Real Madrid and Barcelona can combine for 4 points there. If those two clubs combine for 9 wins by each winning 4 games in the Quarterfinals and Semifinals, the 9 wins will be worth 18 points. When you add 4 and 18 and divide by 7 (the number of Spanish clubs that started competing in UEFA this season), you get 3.142. Therefore if Real Madrid and Barcelona win all remaining games except for one of them losing to the other in the Final, Spain's two Europa League clubs would need to earn at least 4.823 (rounds to 5) coefficient points (before the division by 7) more than Chelsea earns for Spain to pass England. England has led after each of the last four complete seasons.
     
  10. evangel

    evangel Member+

    Apr 12, 2007
    That's why I said before that Spain would have caught up if Chelsea had been eliminated.

    Chelsea is still there though, and given that they will be facing Benfica, they have a good possibility of making it to the semifinals. That will make it more difficult for Spain to catch up this year, as you point out, though they will have a major advantage for next season.

    Also, Spain has 3 Europa League teams remaining, not 2, and none are facing each other in the quarterfinals, so all 5 Spanish teams can make it to the semifinals.
     
  11. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    US/UK dual citizen in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    That Bilbao are only 7th in La Liga is baffling after those two performances.

    Then again, Manchester United fans have been saying for around four years now that readymade reinforcements have been required in their midfield.

    We've been fearing an undoing like this for a while now (outside the Barca drubbings, which were hard to equate to just United). Indeed, there were occassional hints in recent seasons (Bayern Munich a few years ago for example).

    Hopefully this finally convinces Fergie to do something about this (my theory is that he expected Cleverly to be the longterm answer and he may still be right in the long run).
     
  12. lotdungan24

    lotdungan24 New Member

    Mar 16, 2012
    Metallist will be the champion!!!
     
  13. Lusankya

    Lusankya Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 14, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    In the last 5 years (counting this season as well) the German Bundesliga had more teams in the CL quarterfinal than the Serie A. Germany also got more points per team in CL than Italy in the past few seasons. How about you don't complain about the big bad EL, but instead send some good teams?

    Leverkusen finished ahead of Valencia in the group stage and Valencia earn a lot of praise and are the 3rd best team in Spain. Also many good Spanish teams lost by a similiar amount of goals to Barca (Atletico, Osasuna), that doesn't mean Leverkusen are the worst. Barca are just too good.

    AS Roma also lost 7:1 against Manchester not too many years ago. Inter lost 7:1 to Mönchengladbach in 1971/72. So apparantely even the mighty Italian teams can get a drubbing from time to time.
     
  14. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    US/UK dual citizen in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Manchester City are inexperienced at this level and will improve. United are in a transitional period with many up-and-comers in their squad. Note also their injuries: no Vidic for most of the season, Fletcher out of the game indefinitely, Valencia in and out with injuries, Young not long back from a lengthy lay off and still settling.

    The team most in a "down cycle" are the one side still in Europe, Chelsea.

    Arsenal and Liverpool have room for improvement, but are effectively nobbling themselves for different reasons.

    You're right about Serie A having room to become great again, however I find it odd that you take this as some kind of comeback year. Three clubs in the last sixteen should be minimum for Italian teams. As it is, one club remains in European competition. This year has seen English clubs disappoint. Italy has not been impressive.
     
  15. lost

    lost Member

    May 24, 2006
    England
    as ive said before, regardless of the money, until the top sides in the epl go back to conceeding 15-25 goals each in the league season instead of 30-40, we are not going to get to the finals or semi finals anymore. they just dont defend with even close to the same ability as it was in the 2005-9 years.
     
  16. Pyros

    Pyros Member

    Sep 6, 2009
    La Coruña
    Club:
    Valencia CF
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    BS. Lots of Manchester City's players have european experience, putting the City shirt on doesn't suddenly make them "inexperienced", get real.
     
  17. RobTheFool

    RobTheFool Member+

    Apr 19, 2008
    London, England
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    As a team it does. Practically all of England's starting 11 had experience of being in a champions league final, it didn't help us as a team did it.

    They will get better in Europe, they still need a few more players though
     
  18. BobanFan

    BobanFan Member+

    Jun 28, 2007
    Club:
    AC Milan
    And a new coach...
     
  19. Lahmfan

    Lahmfan Member+

    Jun 3, 2007
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    and some balls
     
  20. Pyros

    Pyros Member

    Sep 6, 2009
    La Coruña
    Club:
    Valencia CF
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    England's players aren't that good, nothing to do with experience.

    Yes, I think with another 100 or 200 million spent they will be set :rolleyes:
     
  21. 96Squig

    96Squig Member

    Feb 4, 2004
    Hanover
    Club:
    Hannover 96
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    That's a shitty excuse. 96 also has no experience regarding Europe whatsoever, and, albeit having had luck with the draw so far, made it to the quarter finals. ManCity has a much better team, and the individual player have more experience.
     
  22. RobTheFool

    RobTheFool Member+

    Apr 19, 2008
    London, England
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    If they weren't that good, then they wouldn't have been playing for the teams that shat on your teams would they :rolleyes:

    I'm saying that they have a good attack, but in midfield and defence they are lightweight. They need one or two class CMs, as Barry and De Jong are not good enough for a top team
     
  23. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    There is a tactical revolution happening in Serie A. I'm enjoying its games hugely this season because of it. But the effects on the world stage won't be noticed for another couple of years, I think.

    Barcelona has been a revolution. Something not seen since the Santos of the 60s or the Ajax of the 70s (the birth of Jogo Bonito and Total Football). Unlike other teams thinking in terms of three clear lines, defense, midfield and attack, Barca moves more in function of phases: defensive phase, attacking phase. Instead of a midfield, they have a transition, effected by each player. Which means they can score goals without forwards, since what others call "midfield" basically walks into the other team's area, and tiki-taka their way to goal.

    The scheme making it possible looks on paper like a 4-2-3-1. That is the scheme that prevailed in the last World Cup, where the three teams using it ended at the top. Such scheme is not just flexible, but allows the most players to take part in both phases.

    What I see evolving in Serie A at this time is the answer to it. I'm still studying it, but it seems to work better than the other two solutions tried before (the 4-1-4-1 and the "bunker + counters" that worked so well to the Swiss in the WC). What several Italian teams are trying is using what I call "opening trident" in the middle of the field, that is three players, central mids, with a mainly defensive role on paper, who (however) can spread to the side in attack, while a man stays as connector instead of distributor in the position where you usually found the trequartista.

    What this allows is a for a very fast side-switching not just in attack, but also in defense.

    The model for this system is AC Milan, with Muntari ans Nocerino in the key roles, the sides of the central triage that open up to the sides and can switch as necessary. Often to take mid-range central shots, it's better to have the leftie running in from the right and vice versa.

    The Barcelona-Milan quarter is going to be very interesting to watch. While I don't think Milan has the system down to pat well enough to already neutralize Barca, I think they will be a formidable rival for them. Remember that it took Barcelona three years to perfect their system, and Milan has only been doing this for the last 17 months.
     
  24. Pyros

    Pyros Member

    Sep 6, 2009
    La Coruña
    Club:
    Valencia CF
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    For which ones? You mean like the ones who lost to Athletic who we just gave a beating to? England's players compared to the best of other countries are not that good, as I just said, that's why they couldn't do anything even with experience.

    Yeah, yeah, now Man City has a bad team after years of spending insane amounts of money, the english excuses never fail to entertain :p
     
  25. RobTheFool

    RobTheFool Member+

    Apr 19, 2008
    London, England
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I was talking about in recent years when English teams dominated the CL. Really? How come Lampard, Gerrard, Terry, Ferdinand, Rooney have all been among the backbone for their teams when they've reached finals? Players like Zidane have said that most teams would love to have players like them in their team, of course most of them have dropped a bit since then, but you cannot deny that England had good players compared to other countries.


    I'm not actually sticking up for Man City at all so I don't really know if the second part is meant to be a joke or not :rolleyes: I actually didn't expect them to do well this season in the CL, and I think anybody can see that they are still short in midfield. But ok, carry on :rolleyes:
     

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