What has happened to the English teams in the CL?

Discussion in 'UEFA and Europe' started by Beticious, Nov 24, 2011.

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  1. Beticious

    Beticious New Member

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    English teams have the last decades been very strong in the European competitions, like CL and EL. Now we see something else with Man U, Man C and Chelsea all facing deciding matches in the last group match. It is of course possible that all of them will advance but it is far from certain. Has the rest of Europe caught up with them or is this a sign of weakness from the English clubs?


  2. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member

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    England is the only country with all of its clubs that started having reached a Group Stage (CL or EL) and has the best coefficient so far this season. It's too early to say English clubs are having a bad season. Manchester City needs help to advance, but Chelsea and Manchester United both advance with wins and Chelsea would also advance on head-to-head away goals with a 0-0 draw.

    Edit; Manchester United would also advance with a draw.
  3. 96Squig

    96Squig Member

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    If the result stands after the next round of games are played we can talk. But basically football happened, which is a good thing. It is an unpredictable sport still, and I hope that this season will show that, and that that is good.
  4. Beticious

    Beticious New Member

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  5. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member

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    In 2005-2006 Manchester United lost their last game 2-1 at Benfica and finished last with 6 points. The top three had 10 points, 8 points, and 6 points. http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsoccer/...ue-ucl-2011-clubs-struggling-in-europe-112411 is titled "English giants losing ground in Europe."
  6. timh19

    timh19 Member+

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    I believe you have to look at every team separately.
    It's been coming for Chelsea for at least 2 years now. The team's ageing. The midfield often moves the ball very slowly and as a result there is no creativity.Lampard is past it but they keep playing him.There is plenty of deadwood along with Lampard like Mikel,Kalou,Anelka,Malouda,Bosingwa,Ferreira and even Drogba now. On the other hand, if they had gotten the penalty they deserved against Leverkusen, they would have been through.I think Valencia have the bigger chance to qualify considering the circumstances.

    Man Utd will eliminate Basel, there is no doubt about it.Since they lost Ronaldo and Tevez,their performances overall have not been that great. They havent invested a lot of money in their midfield.Most of their midfielders are nowhere near top 5 in the world.I know it's not about the individuals but how they play as a team however it still makes a big difference.They often struggle because of that. They played without Rooney and Vidic against Basel and Benfica.They can lose against anyone without them at least in 2011(maybe not against anyone but you know what I mean; it's an expression). You have to look at Basel and Benfica as well. Benfica reached the semis of the Europa League last season and then they bought Garay from Real Madrid,Nolito from Barca, Axel Witsel and Bruno Cesar.Those are really quality players. Basel were under the guidance of a great coach (Thorsten Fink) who is now Hamburger SV's coach.

    Man City are definitely going to the Europa League. It's all because of Mancini. They missed a lot of great chances in the first match against Napoli but in the second his tactics and selection were all wrong.Then the timing of the substitutions were even worse. There is nothing wrong with the team.They were perfectly good to eliminate Napoli but the manager ********ed them up. When they play away from home and they ONLY NEED A DRAW against a very good counter attacking team, why is he playing so many attacking players ? Napoli needed the win, not City. He should have parked the bus with Barry,De Jong and Yaya and not play possession football. He played into Napoli's hands.Clichy and Richards to start ahead of Kolarov and Zabaleta were no-brainers.Aguero was played in the last 9 min and for those minutes he did more than what Dzeko did for 81 min.
  7. Kampfschwein

    Kampfschwein Member

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    Next to seeing the Wicked Witches of Castille and Catalonia humiliated, nothing else gives me greater pleasure than seeing the bad evil EPL's financially doped megaclubs flop.

    Especially, got my fingers crossed that Mansour and Abramovich will see their toys fail to reach the knock-out stage.

    Yep, I love to indulge in a little Schadenfreude. :)
  8. Thomas T.

    Thomas T. Member

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    But both Chelsea and Manchester will, if they advance, probably only be second in their group - it is out of their hands now.
    This would mean a 3/7 (43%) chance to face one of this year's big 3 (Barca, Real, Bayern) as early as in the round of 16 - and the others then in the next rounds. The probability that one of Chelsea or ManU will face one of the big 3 is even 67%.
    Both Chelsea and ManU could make it with a lot of luck past one of those 3, but neither is strong enough to repeat that feat against 2 or all 3.
  9. Beticious

    Beticious New Member

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    I agree, Man United will probably advance, maybe Chelsea and Man City too but they are nowhere close to be contenders for the title this year. Bayern, Real and Barca all look stronger.
  10. Lusankya

    Lusankya Moderator Staff Member

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    Unless of course Leverkusen lose their match against Genk. ;)
  11. Beticious

    Beticious New Member

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    And saying that Chelsea will just go out against a strong Valencia and play 0-0 is presumptuous.
  12. evangel

    evangel Member+

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    As far as the coefficients go, if 3 of England's teams crash out of the Champions League at this stage, I believe it would be unlikely that they will continue to have the best coefficients for this season (I'm referring to the single year coefficients, not the full 5-year ones). The bonus points for making it to the later stages of the CL are enormous.

    Of course, it also seems very unlikely that all 3 will fail to qualify. My guess is that Man City will fail to progress, Man Utd will likely go through, and Chelsea has about an even 50% chance.
  13. Beticious

    Beticious New Member

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    Well it was another strong night for the British teams in the Europa League yesterday. Birmingham lost and are not in control over their own fate, Tottenham lost and the same goes for them. Celtic lost to a spanish team at home. My thesis that English and British teams are struggling in Europe is getting stronger by the minute.

  14. Karloski

    Karloski Member+

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    Though I do agree with you that the English teams are weaker than in years gone by. I don't think Harry cares that much about Spurs going through, he is fighting for a top 4 place, and the Thursday games aren't always very helpful. Which is why he is trying to rest a lot of players during the group games. I still think he thought it would be enough to see him in the top 2, but it backfired on him yesterday.

    As for Birmingham, I'm surprised they've managed as many point as they have (still in with a slim chance). I think they have had somne decent results for a Championship team.
  15. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

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    Man United and Man City are still contenders. I think people are overrating Bayern now. They have 4 losses in the league already. Man City has 0. The problem with City is that they have no CL experience apart from Yaya. But talent can overcome lack of experience, so it would be foolish to rule them out.
  16. BOSNAINTER

    BOSNAINTER Member

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    bcse they are not good simple as that and thy have never dominated europe
  17. Beticious

    Beticious New Member

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    I agree they have talent and if the advance they can maybe grow with time. The problem is that they will only advance with the grace of god. Bayern on the other hand have plenty of experience adn will be sure to reckon with - come final time. Furthermore it also shows that the German league is much stronger than before - where you have teams like Monchengladbach, Dortmund and Schalke fighting it out with Bayern.
  18. Beticious

    Beticious New Member

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    By the way they played on Wednesday and most CL-teams also played on Wednesdays, without complaints so it's not really an excuse. And I dont understand how a manager for a "top" PL-team can say that the Europa League is not a priority.
  19. Karloski

    Karloski Member+

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    Trying to establish yourself as a top 4 team in the PL, is waaaay more important than the Europa league.

    I was talking about the majority of Europa games being on a Thursday. Did you see the team Harry sent out to Eastern Europe? It was a bunch of kids.
  20. Beticious

    Beticious New Member

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    I dont think one thing excludes the other. You can do both - many teams have proved that in the past. Tottenham have a big squad and have no good excuse to send out "a bunch of kids". I understand that they want to play in CL next year but, but at the same time players need experience from European competition and the Europa League is no turnip league.
  21. Thomas T.

    Thomas T. Member

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    There is another good reason why English teams should not field weak teams in the Europa League: they need wins to bolster their UEFA coefficient. Otherwise, if they qualify for the CL later, they are seeded low in the draw and could find themselves in a group with very strong opponents. Manchester City has found out this year what that means.
  22. Karloski

    Karloski Member+

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    I agree with you. Harry and some othe PL managers obviously don't.
  23. cosmosRIP

    cosmosRIP Member

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    This season the whole of the Premiership has forgotten how to defend. Not so bad when they play each other, in fact the recent goal fests have been fun to watch, but they're running into trouble when they play in Europe.
  24. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

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    Yeah, am not so sure. Dortmund have stunk it up big time in the CL. So it can be argued the other way just as easily.
  25. Equilibrium

    Equilibrium Member+

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    And Schalke was fighting relegation for parts of last season and made the CL semi-final. But yes, lets just look at one team flopping and make a point.
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