Michael Skibbe was Rudi Völler's assistant in 2002 and 2004 (and in between). Völler had only been an interim coach at Leverkusen prior to accepting the German gig. Skibbe was 35 but had coached Dortmund for a couple of seasons. Bob did bring in Peter Nowak, who had been successful in MLS as a coach and internationally as a player. After Peter quit, Bob brought in another of his former cadre in Lubos Kubik, who had a similar long playing career but was far less successful as a head coach. I think both would have benefited from an experienced assistant, whether a head or 1st team type.
One needs a PhD in Quantum Mechanics to understand your logic but lets see if I got it: We hired JK because of his success with Germany Klinsmann hired an assistant coach from an Austrian BL club who's last job in Germany was getting fired from a BL2 club that got regulated to BL3. Said coach had been unemployed the prior year before Austria Wien and had been fired from a Turkish club prior to that. That assistant coach is a tactical genius and the reason for JK's success with the German MNT. Klinsmann can't stand on his own and so needs another tactical genius. He hired Vasquez who is not a tactical genius as an assistant coach. He also hired Andreas Herzog as an assistant coach. Herzog was Austria's head coach, assistant coach and U21 coach but he does not count. We are in trouble because Klinsmann did not hire a tactician as an assistant coach. I think I got it!
While I'm drawing comparisons to Loew, this thread is also about Vasquez, in case you forgot. The guy who was an abject failure in MLS and has no other experience or credentials. Don't act like failing in Turkey and Germany even compares to that, especially since he has actually WON a cup title in Germany and took that same side to a European Cup final.
It was rumored during his stint at Bayern that the players were...let's just say unconvinced...by the coaching of Vasquez, a product of the 80s arena leagues who forged a journeyman career in the Mexican leagues and MLS and who's only previous coaching credentials were as an assistant with various SoCal teams, half of which weren't even MLS-level. Considering he didn't exactly improve his resume back home with Chivas, I'd have to imagine most of the players on this USA team have a tough time taking a guy with Vasquez's background seriously. Surely those who boast that Klinsmann's legend status as a player qualifies him with special knowledge must be consistent with regards to Vasquez's meager history in the game, especially now that we know that Vasquez is a particularly hands-on assistant in this regime.
I suggest people give us a comparison of all the other national teams' assistants so we can see just how less prepared Vasquez is compared to the competition. Without that, I see no reason to get anxiety ridden over an assistant.
The argument really is this: 1. Klinsi relies heavily on his assistants. 2. Vasquez is his main assistant. 3. From 1 and 2, Vasquez is heavily responsible for how the team looks. 4. We give up dumb goals. 5. We look dumb attacking. 6. From 4 and 5, we look like shit. therefore 7. From 3 and 6, Vasquez is heavily responsible for the shit which we look like. Now clearly he isn't solely responsible. And clearly his experience is a relevant factor in trying to understand why he is so bad. Being relevant is not the same as being determinative, though. We have to remember that the first thing this team did when Klinsi took over was try to shore up the defense, and it did a decent job. So what happened?
By all accounts, Klinsi rides his assistants a little more heavily than most. FWIW, I didn't lack for optimism when Klinsi signed. I only started to get worried once he decided he was going to stick with Martin as his head assistant. Vasquez hasn't yet been a success anywhere, and they were a failure as a tandem once already.
I'd suggest "failing" at Bayern is a selling point for less prestigious programs like ours, rather than a negative. An assistant with a compelling resume is an oxymoron.
IF he'd ever succeeded anywhere, it might be. But he hasn't. Using the same logic, you could say that failing at CUSA could've been grounds for immediate disqualification. Of course, there haven't been many who have succeeded there. The most successful was our last national team manager, and Martin clearly isn't as much of an X's and O's guy. You know what's ominous about the connection between Bayern and now with Vasquez? Bayern's real problems were in the back, and they never got that worked out.
One needs a PhD in Quantum Mechanics to understand your logic but lets see if I got it: 1. Sunil had a man crush on Jurgen who did a decent job coaching the fatherland with an easy draw at home in 2006. It was nice that they did not have to qualify. No need to talk about Bayern Munich. 2. He needs a foreign coaching staff because some folks have an inferiority complex. 3. JK decided to leave the training sessions to Martin. Jurgs takes the press conferences and interviews. 4. Martin bombed out in his one year at Chivas and was not highly regarded at Bayern Munich. This really should not be considered because he is an assistant (even though he is leading and designing the training sessions). 5. Neither Martin nor Jurgen have a reputation as tacticians http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/947430/philipp-lahm:-jurgen-klinsmann-doesn't-do-tactics?cc=5901 6. At best, the verdict is still out on Andy Herzog, who once served as Austria's (tri) caretaker manager, along with Willibald Ruttensteiner and Slavko Kovacic. Their record during this period was 1 win, 1 loss. Willibald, btw, was invited back to be the caretaker manager (sans Slavko and Andy) in 2011. Austria has never qualified for Euro U-21. 7. We are in trouble because (check one or all) [] Jurgen was highly overrated by Sunil [] We are playing a style that does not suit our pool. []Our players do not get together before the match and discuss tactics [] We have limited quality attacking resources that are poorly utilized [] JK thought it would be interesting to shuffle up the defense prior to Honduras and to go without the designated 6. Some of us had hoped this boneheaded stuff had ended. [] Jurgen is committed to tiki taka [] Big Soccer liked Jurgen's starting lineup (a false positive) [] Free kick goals (when scored by our opponents, only) really should not be allowed to count. [] We squander opportunities to counterattack because improving our possession percentage is more important. [] Shots on frame are also no longer a priority. Training emphasizes possession. [] Landon Donovan and Bruce are having a chuckle at Jurgen's expense. [] Martin is the only coach on the staff capable of designing a training session. ( I hope this is only a joke) [] "On every age group over u-8, the assistants run the training sessions." I think they may have been serious. [] The yoga and dietary programs have not had a chance to take effect. [] The next motivational speaker will get the job done. [] The players have not been trained to their max prior to matches. [] Jurgen decided to do the talking since he has not had experience training teams. (Again, I hope this is incorrect, however, he might consider training the team more and talking less). [] For some reason, the players respond better to Martin. [] BF has a crush on a certain poster which keeps him headed in the wrong direction. [] Most other folks, Dooley etc., thought it best to back away from the train wreck. [] Since being hired, Klinsmann has been outcoached by Luis Fernando Suarez, Theo Whitman, Interim Canadian Coach Colin Miller, Stephen Hart, Ever Hugo Almeida, Tom Curtis and Costa Rican caretaker coach Ronald Gonzales Brenes.
This. Is not. About. Other. managers. This is about Juergen Klinsmann, This is about the fact that the tenure that undoubtedly swayed Sunil Gulati into persuing him as a coach for this team saw him flanked by a coach with at least decent credentials, and that he now not only has a guy with nowhere near that kind of reputation, but actually has a bad record with the man he is assistant coaching for. If THAT doesn't scare you for the state of this team, then I don't know what will.
Let's give the Hex teams a try. Times at start of latest gig: CRC - Pinto (COL) - 27 years as manager; Assist.: Wanchope (CRC) - newbie. HON - Suarez (COL) - 12 years as manager; Assist.: Miguel Falero (URU) - 4 years as assistant + 8 years as coach (Libertad (PAR), Wanderers (URU), Defensor (URU), Deportivo Quito, Emelec (ECU), Cucuta (COL), San Martin (PER)). MEX - Chepo de la Torre (MEX) - 5 years as manager; Assist.: Eduardo de la Torre (MEX) - 5 years as assist.; 4 years as coach (Chivas, Santos, Jaguares). PAN - Dely Valdes (PAN) - 3 years + 1 year as assist.; Assist: Jorge Dely Valdes (PAN) - 3.5 years as coach (youth NTs). USA - Klinsmann (GER) - 3 years; Assist: Vasquez (USA) - 6 years as assistant + 1 year as coach (Chivas USA). JAM - Whitmore (JAM) - 2.5 years + 1 year as assist.; Assit.: Montesso (BRA) - 7 years as assistant & interim coach (Goiaense, Coritiba, Ceara, Fluminense). PS: Forgot to include part of Falero's impressive resume.
Although Paulo Wanchope is new to coaching, he is one of the legendary figures in soccer, ever in Costa Rica. http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=10430
For concacaf... it seems to be about on par with all the teams. Truthfully... it doesn't MATTER how qualified a coach is or isnt thats an assistant... its all about the product, and how all the parts come together.
True, but I'm only including coaching. I don't think being a great player is enough qualification to coach; matter of fact, you still need to get your license.
Eeeeeeeexactly. They came together great for Germany, but different parts didn't in Bayern. So why are those same components put together for this national team? I really have no clue.
We've always been managed by nobodies, and now you're scared that an assistant isn't Joachim Löw. The only reason Löw is well known is because Klinsmann brought him on board. And now that he has some stature he doesn't want to be our manager, much less our assistant. He wants to manage Chelsea or somebody like that. It's not as if Löw was highly regarded while he was Klinsmann's assistant either. When the DFB made emergency back-up plans to replace Klinsmann before the WC, Löw wasn't the candidate. And he wasn't the candidate after the World Cup either, until Klinsmann turned the job down. Do you think the US players feel that an assistant makes a difference in their performance on game day? I don't.
DFB wanted Holger Osieck, who was an assistant to Beckenbauer (along with Berti Vogts) during the 1990 WC cycle. Klinsmann insisted on Löw. Coach's prerogative.
You're completely missing the point here. None of this would matter if Juergen Klinsmann weren't the coach, but he IS, so it DOES, unlike the opinions of the DFB on Loew before, during, and after the World Cup. The point is that Juergen requires sound counsel from his coaching staff, and I'm really not feeling confident with a guy who has next to no experience or success as his assistant, not to mention a not so great record with the guy who he is working under.
Sigh....let's try this again, just for you HHF. [1] You are confusing two very simple facts here: The fact that JK hired Low and Vasquez and the fact he trusted them both to play similar roles for him. Both Low and Vasquez have a tandem role precisely in that the role of principal assistant under JK has been far more that of a partner, a fellow strategist, than just the underling who carries out the boss' bidding. Klinsmann is the "Boss" in that they were his hires, but they were his hires to be partners in the running of things, and not, as was Sorber for Bradley, mere corporals following the Captain's orders. In that light, Vasquez is a poor poor substitute for the Low role. JK was truly improved by having Joachim there, and he is truly disadvantaged by having no one of his caliber on the USMNT squad. With Bradley and Sorber the quality did not matter, because the full weight of the operation, for good or for ill, lay fullsquare with BB. Capisce? [2] The question is not "what qualified Vasquez to be a USMNT assistant", but "what qualified Vasquez to be the most important assistant on JK's staff"
B.S. strawman, not fact. Totally made up. B.S. strawman, not fact. Totally made up. B.S. strawman, not fact. Totally made up. I wonder if Sober would agree with this. I guess he never gave BB any input during the process just carried the orange slices. B.S. strawman not fact. Totally made up. The only qualification Vasquez, Herzog, and Woods needed is that JK wanted them. As far as "the most important assistant" more B.S. strawman, not fact. Totally made up.
You can keep bouncing around it, but you need to come to the conclusion that Martin Vasquez has no place being an assistant coach for a guy like Juergen Klinsmann, who places great faith in his coaching staff and their respective counsel. Vasquez could be a good assistant. He could be a good coach. But the Klinsmann-Vasquez tandem does not work. No, that's not a "fact", but we've spent the entire thread going over some pretty strong evidence to support this theory.
"you need to come to the conclusion"! I like that, I plan to use it at my 2 o'clock meeting! Does Andreas Herzog have a place as a JK assistant? How about Chris Woods, does he have a place or does he also need to go?