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Discussion in 'USA Men' started by TheNearPost, Feb 15, 2013.
You don't get what I mean do you.
Read this again:
The point I've been making is that Juergen had a good assistant when he had a good stint as a coach. So if he has an inexperienced and failed coach like Martin Vasquez at his side this time, then we've got an issue.
Any coach with a similar past would be getting the exact same flak from me. You can count on THAT.
I am very surprised he kept Marteen after the BM fiasco. That kind of failure carries over.
Yea, I can't say I understand much of their soccer, since I am not much of a fan or watched much of it.
Although from the germans I have met, are the exact opposite of Klinsmann.
Hell...exact opposite of Pep. It's going to be interesting to see if this works out...
When JK was hired, I am sure German fans would disagree with the kind asisstant (hell, head coach too!) he brought along as not being good enough for their own NT, probably at the level posters in this thread are unhappy with Vazquez.
Of course if you compare Vasquez and Herzog to Mike Sorber, BB's assistant?
I'm not sure YOU'RE getting what IM saying.
Juergen has an untested failure of a coach as his assistant. He already had one disappointing coaching tenure with this coach. The WHOLE reason that we hired Juergen was because he had a good stint coaching Germany. Part of the reason he did so well was because he had a good tactician at his side, who had EXPERIENCE and CREDENTIALS.
I don't care if Juergen wasn't experienced when he took over the Germany job. The risk they took is up to them.
I care about the fact that the guy we're paying 2.5 million dollars a year has a failure of a coach as an assistant when his best time as a coach was when he had a proven, tested tactical mind as his assistant.
Clearly documented. The DFB first made JK interview Osieck as JK's assistant and it was only after JK said that Osieck did not share his vision that the DFB reluctantly allowed JK to bring in Loew.
I am sure Germany/German fans felt the same when JK took their money, and had them walking around with their ass cheeks clenched tight until after teh WC. LOL
I still remember how for many fans at that time, didn't expect Germany to do well, slither along out of the an 'easy' group stage and then get slaughtered after that.
Bob Bradley didn't have a failed stint with Mike Sorber at his side.
As one of his assistants, Vasquez was an assistant coach at LA Galaxy, Chivas USA, Bayern Munich, as well as the head coach at Chivas before JK called him.
Almost forgot the other assistant Herzog, was former Austria head coach, former Austria assistant and Austria U21 head coach before JK called.
As BB's assistant Mike Sober was the assistant coach at St Louis University before he was hired!
Sure, because the German National team has very high expectations, so the fans surely thought that a coach with "only" 8 years of head coaching experience, and some failures mixed in with several successes, was below the level they hoped for, especially as newbie JK's top assistant. One wonders what the Germans would have thought had JK wanted as his #1 assistant a guy with exactly 1 failed year as a head coach in a mediocre league? Now THAT would have been fun to watch.
But Sorber's background isn't important because the HEAD COACH was a highly experienced coach. Bob Bradley had been coaching soccer since 1981 when he was hired as the US Head Coach in 2007. He had a decade and a half of experience as a college coach, nearly all as a head coach, and he had another decade of experience as an MLS head coach, with multiple winning seasons and multiple trophies. Bob Bradley didn't need a proven, experienced assistant coach.
It is the total opposite situation with Klinsman. He is very inexperienced coach. So his choice of top assistant matters -- ergo, the existance of this thread. In Loew, Klinsi took a low-profile, but highly experienced professional coach on as his top assistant. In Vasquez, Klinsi took on a guy who failed in his only head coaching job, a mere 1-year stint in MLS.
It's pretty clear that Bob Bradly and Juergen Klinsmann couldn't be further apart in terms of coaching approach and goals, so comparing their assistant is complete asinine. Bob himself was the tactician and focused on results. Juergen has a much more broad role, and, as such, needs experts in different areas to help him.
He had a failed experience as head coach at Chivas USA, and please do note that Vasquez did NOT have experience at Bayern Munich before "JK called". It was, after all, JK who called him to be at BM.
That aside, the point is that JK worked as a tandem with Low, and owed much to Low. With Vasquez filling the "Low" role, it is much weaker support. No once claimed, and it was simply not so, that BB ever came closing to working in tandem with Sorber. Bradley was the Boss, and Sorber an assistant.
Geesh, HoustonHoyaFan, this kind of misdirection on your part....what's it about?
These are not universal principles though that you're promoting. Guardiola was less experienced as a coach than Klinsmann--one season of coaching a reserve team. Did he choose an experienced coach as his top assistant when he was chosen to manage Barcelona? No, he chose a guy who had one season as assistant coach of a reserve team. Who is now himself the manager. Except he has a caretaker running the team for him due to illness. Experienced head coach? No, one year as an assistant in Japan, and one year assistant there at Barcelona.
Assistants are not proven, highly credentialed managers. If they were, they would be managing. They are just people who managers are comfortable working with from previous jobs.
Also, Bradley's college and MLS experience doesn't make him a more qualified national team coach than Klinsmann's cycle for Germany.
Quoted for truth.
Klinsmann was the Boss. He hired Loew over the objections of the DFB when Jogi was toiling away in the Austrian BL after previously getting fired from a BL2 club which was relegated under his watch and a Turkish club which also had poor results. Now you want to claim it was some kind of "tandem" role? Lets not try to rewrite history.
The OP asked what qualified Vasquez to be a USMNT assistant. Vasquez's coaching credentials and qualifications far exceeds the previous USMNT assistant coach
Out of curiosity, does anyone know who the last assistant coach for Germany was before JK/Loew came on board in 2004?
There are no 100% locked in rules when it comes to human behavior. Pep Guardiola is a brilliant exception, as he stepped in with only 1 years coaching experience. Now, he was a minor legend at Barca as a player, but still, the exception is rare. And Pep's exceptional rise proves nothing about how Martin Vasquez might turn out as a coach. Nada. Zippo. Only Martin Vasquez's abilities and experience will determine how good of a coach he will be. Are you comfortable with his very limited, 1-year failure at Chivas USA in 2010? Does this give you confidence that he can teach the US team how to make Klinsi's vision become reality?
And I agree with you that Bob Bradley's 25+years as a professional coach before being hired for the US national team job does not ensure that he will end up as being a better coach than Klinsman. Klinsman could turn out to become a brilliant coach; it's still very early in his coaching career and impossible to know.
BUT, BB's 25+ years as a professional coach prior to 2007 do show him to have been a vastly more experienced coach than Klinsman, and suggest that he doesn't specifically need an experienced assistant to help out. A person might honestly not like BB's coaching style, but one cannot argue that he was a coaching newbie, unfamiliar with the demands of coaching a team, when he was hired by the USSF in 2007.
On the other hand, we do know that JK's success with Germany was helped, to some degree, by having a veteran coach like Loew, with a decade of head coaching experience at his side. And we do know that Vasquez was a failed head coach so far in his short career, so the professional coaching experience of JK's assistant with the USA is significantly less than when JK had Loew at his side with Germany. It may all work out anyway, this newbie-Klinsman-plus-failed-Vasquez partnership. Goodness knows I hope the gamble works out, because I always root for the USA team to succeed. Missing the World Cup would be gut wrenching and something I would never want to see.
But if I'm playing the odds, well, then I have some worries about this partnership. Newbie head coach plus a failed head coach as the top assistant? There are legitimate reasons for concern about how this all works out. It's a gamble, not a blueprint.
Jesus, it's not that Vasquez' experience qualifies him one way or the other.
The problem is he just isn't very good.
Voller, JK's old strike partner was the head coach. Don't remember who the assistants were.
Well, his very brief experience at Chivas screams "not very good" but I was trying to be polite.
I never EVER said these were universal principles. I said that the main reason we hired Juergen Klinsmann was because of his work with the German national team. That was partly attributed to Jogi Loew, who at least had SOME success in Europe - again, he took his side to a Europa League final and were beaten by one goal by Chelsea, and has two championships under his belt.
The man at Juergen's side now has ALREADY failed with him at a bigger club with better players in Bayern Munich FC, and he already failed at a worse club with worse players in Chivas USA.
There is literally NO reason for us to believe that the Klinsmann-Vasquez tandem will work. At all. This isn't about other coaches. This is about what we've seen from these two coaches before. One has been poor on his own, and they were both already poor when placed together. Other coaches are a whole other matter because they are, quite simply, different people!
Hiring Donovan as our coach would be a more apt comparison.